News Article: Mike Babcock Pretty Much Confirms Melnyk Involved In MacLean Firing

h2

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Mar 26, 2002
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Melnyk went with Bryan in getting Maclean and, for a lot of different reasons, it didn't work out

There's nothing wrong with the owner telling the GM "well we tried your guy, now we try mine" and Cameron has put together some very good regular seasons, he's not some scrub

Cameron also never coached a championship roster at any level, and presided over the biggest collapse in Canadian World Junior hockey history. This guy is now our coach because he's best friends with our owner. Any logical fan is right to question this move at the moment.

EDIT: I'm not going to mention the epic choke job in Binghamton loaded with Spezza/Vermette/Bochenski/Emery/Pothier/Volchenkov/Neil in '05 against a very average Penguins team. Or the reputation of Cameron in the Binghamton area.
 
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ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
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Ottawa, Canada
I agree with your premise, but Mark Cuban is pretty heavily involved with the Mavs, and they won and Championship.

Not a good example...there are plenty of interviews with Mark where he swears that the best way to be the owner of the team is to let his management do their job unabated. he's a super fan, but he limits himself to cheering his team, fighting with the commissioner and yelling at refs.

I'd be cool if Eugene was slamming his hands on the boards and yelling at Tim Peel and left it at that.
 

Samsquanch

Raging Bull Squatch
Nov 28, 2008
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And I agree with Doug Maclean the piling on Paul Maclean by the organization is ugly and unnecessary.

This is so mystifying to me. What are you guys even talking about?

No one is piling on Maclean at all. Was Murray supposed to say nothing at all and leave everyone to come to their own conclusions as to why Mac was let go?

He gave a brief summary on why they felt a change was necessary, and his comments were right in line with what most people who are close to the team were also observing. Nothing earth shattering came out of Murray's comments, and it certainly didnt feel like piling on to me. Just confirming what we already knew.

Maclean basically confirmed Murray's comments by saying that he did what he felt was necessary to make the playoffs (ie run a tight ship and dont bend for anyone). I respect his pride, but it was that pride that was his ultimate undoing here. Coaches need to be able to adjust.

If Melnyk was really the insane dictator people think he is, he could have given Cameron the job whenever he wanted.

The way people vilify the owner around here is getting out of hand.

This x1000.

Cameron has paid his dues, and Im willing to give him a shot. God knows that we arent afraid to fire an under performing coach.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,210
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Cameron also never coached a championship roster at any level, and presided over the biggest collapse in Canadian World Junior hockey history. This guy is now our coach because he's best friends with our owner. Any logical fan is right to question this move at the moment.

EDIT: I'm not going to mention the epic choke job in Binghamton loaded with Spezza/Vermette/Bochenski/Emery/Pothier/Volchenkov/Neil in '05 against a very average Penguins team. Or the reputation of Cameron in the Binghamton area.

2005 was 10 years ago

The WJC choke job was epic but it's fair to say our goaltenders were bad and that the Russians really turned it on

My point is we should wait and see how he does before saying he sucks

I'm not super thrilled but let's see how things shake out
 

h2

Registered User
Mar 26, 2002
4,693
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2005 was 10 years ago

The WJC choke job was epic but it's fair to say our goaltenders were bad and that the Russians really turned it on

My point is we should wait and see how he does before saying he sucks

I'm not super thrilled but let's see how things shake out

I'm taking the same approach to see how things shake out. But I think fans have a right to voice displeasure at the move based on Cameron's average results and his history with Melnyk influencing the hire.

Those voices will be silenced if things turn around, but the optics of the whole thing are very concerning to me. I hope the move works out.
 

ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
12,042
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Ottawa, Canada
This is so mystifying to me. What are you guys even talking about?

No one is piling on Maclean at all. Was Murray supposed to say nothing at all and leave everyone to come to their own conclusions as to why Mac was let go?

He gave a brief summary on why they felt a change was necessary, and his comments were right in line with what most people who are close to the team were also observing. Nothing earth shattering came out of Murray's comments, and it certainly didnt feel like piling on to me. Just confirming what we already knew.

Maclean basically confirmed Murray's comments by saying that he did what he felt was necessary to make the playoffs (ie run a tight ship and dont bend for anyone). I respect his pride, but it was that pride that was his ultimate undoing here. Coaches need to be able to adjust.



This x1000.

Cameron has paid his dues, and Im willing to give him a shot. God knows that we arent afraid to fire an under performing coach.

What Doug Maclean was referring to was the character assassination by the org's media puppets in Dean Brown, Gord Wilson, etc who went out of their way to out down Maclean.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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9,962
I'm taking the same approach to see how things shake out. But I think fans have a right to voice displeasure at the move based on Cameron's average results and his history with Melnyk influencing the hire.

Those voices will be silenced if things turn around, but the optics of the whole thing are very concerning to me. I hope the move works out.

His most recent seasons with the Ice Dogs were very good

I'll take that over coaching a Bingo team with bereft of any kind of talent in the seasons after the 04-05 lockout
 

Samboni

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Jan 26, 2014
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It's my belief that Eugene wanted Cameron as coach all along, but yielded to Bryan. Since things haven't gone according to Hoyle, Eugene is now getting his way. Eugene owns the team, so he can do what he likes... which isn't any different from the other owners.

Sam
 

ElRossoMatt

Registered User
Feb 13, 2010
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Bucharest,Romania
It's my belief that Eugene wanted Cameron as coach all along, but yielded to Bryan. Since things haven't gone according to Hoyle, Eugene is now getting his way. Eugene owns the team, so he can do what he likes... which isn't any different from the other owners.

Sam

I believe exactly the same thing but we have to remember that we can't be sure since we don't know for sure.

If Melnyk was really the insane dictator people think he is, he could have given Cameron the job whenever he wanted.

The way people vilify the owner around here is getting out of hand.

No it isn't. The evidence against him has a lot of weight. There are two or more hockey people (Mike Babcock, Doug Maclean) that say it was Melnyk's decision. That's a lot. You must be Melnyk's son to defend him at this point. Are you his son?


Once the forensic evidence is released you'll see that Eugene is innocent of all accusations.

:laugh::laugh: You sir are the funniest guy around and you made me chuckle a number of times. Thanks and keep it up
 

h2

Registered User
Mar 26, 2002
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It's my belief that Eugene wanted Cameron as coach all along, but yielded to Bryan. Since things haven't gone according to Hoyle, Eugene is now getting his way. Eugene owns the team, so he can do what he likes... which isn't any different from the other owners.

Sam

Actually it is quite different from most (smart) owners.
 

BonkTastic

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If Melnyk was really the insane dictator people think he is, he could have given Cameron the job whenever he wanted.

Ugh, come on now.

There is a MASSIVE gap in the line between "owner who is too involved in the hockey side of the business", and "insane dictator".

That's a bit of a strawman to exaggerate the other side of the argument like that. No one is saying that.
 

CanadianHockey

Smith - Alfie
Jul 3, 2009
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So much spin on such a harmless quote.

All owners meddle. Some a little more than others. I don't doubt that Melnyk had a hand in Cameron's hiring and promotion, and I don't doubt he pushed Murray to make some changes to get the team to win. It's the nature of pro sports; billionaires who are used to running the show and managing their investments aren't often comfortable taking a back seat when they don't like their organization's performance or direction.

I'm not even a fan of Melnyk, and I happen to believe he meddles too much. At some point, though, we have to look at other teams and realize Melnyk isn't a Pocklington or a Ballard.
 

StefanW

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Mar 13, 2013
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This is so mystifying to me. What are you guys even talking about?

No one is piling on Maclean at all. Was Murray supposed to say nothing at all and leave everyone to come to their own conclusions as to why Mac was let go?

He gave a brief summary on why they felt a change was necessary, and his comments were right in line with what most people who are close to the team were also observing. Nothing earth shattering came out of Murray's comments, and it certainly didnt feel like piling on to me. Just confirming what we already knew.

Maclean basically confirmed Murray's comments by saying that he did what he felt was necessary to make the playoffs (ie run a tight ship and dont bend for anyone). I respect his pride, but it was that pride that was his ultimate undoing here. Coaches need to be able to adjust.

Now look at the two bolded statements. Statement 1 is that no one is piling on. Statement 2 starts with a correct statement (MacLean did say that he did what he felt he needed to do in order to play in June) and then adds a parenthetical that is not only completely false, but it basically piles on and completely contradicts statement 1.

At no point in time did PMac ever say that he was not willing to bend for anyone. In fact, he said the exact opposite when he pointed out that he door was always open, but it takes two sides to have a conversation.

So yeah, you have shown in technicolour that criticisms of people piling on to MacLean are 100% correct. Thank you for providing a very good example of how the garbage media feeds to us via the likes of Garrioch etc get digested and regurgitated by the fan base.
 

Samboni

Registered User
Jan 26, 2014
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Actually it is quite different from most (smart) owners.

I'm not saying that EM made the right call or not, only time will tell.

What isn't smart is for an owner of any business not to be involved in major decisions. Lot's of athletes (and businessmen) have gone broke because they put their faith in the wrong people. In ottawa's case, I think that EM gives BM a lot of leeway (not much when it comes to money though) .

Sam
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,101
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I believe exactly the same thing but we have to remember that we can't be sure since we don't know for sure.



No it isn't. The evidence against him has a lot of weight. There are two or more hockey people (Mike Babcock, Doug Maclean) that say it was Melnyk's decision. That's a lot. You must be Melnyk's son to defend him at this point. Are you his son?




:laugh::laugh: You sir are the funniest guy around and you made me chuckle a number of times. Thanks and keep it up

Yeah that must be it. Or maybe I just don't buy in to conjecture based conclusion that many around here are declaring to be gospel.

It goes beyond Cameron. But like I said before, if Melnyk wanted Cameron to have the job and didn't care what anyone else thought, Cameron would have been made the head coach years ago.
 

Knave

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
21,652
2,238
Ottawa
Ah yes, this old strawman. Because our only options to buy this team would be Eugene Melynk, Rod Bryden or no one else?

It's not like a multi-millionaire from Ottawa just purchased a hockey team in Arizona recently. You don't think there would be a list of suitors interested in this team? Anthony Leblanc would drop his Coyotes share faster than a Glendale vote to own this team.

No... I doubt it.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,101
5,712
Ottawa
Ugh, come on now.

There is a MASSIVE gap in the line between "owner who is too involved in the hockey side of the business", and "insane dictator".

That's a bit of a strawman to exaggerate the other side of the argument like that. No one is saying that.

Obviously I was exaggerating to make a point, but do think that some people are turning Melnyk into this massive villain based on very little evidence of such.

I've argued before that Melnyk has shelled out money in the past to ice a cap team, and that he's handed out decent dollar values to re-sign players and sign free agents. It's not insane to suggest that he's not willing to spend massive amounts of money during a rebuild, but might when the time is right to seriously compete. Like he has in the past.

The same goes with Cameron. Melnyk probably wanted him to have the coaching job, but he's gone with Murrays suggestion several times before. Now he's promoting a guy already in the organization.

There are legitimate reasons why the team may have wanted to dump Maclean. The terrible defense, conflicts with players etc etc. He wasn't just fired because Melnyk wanted his guy, which seems to be something that many people here are suggesting.

Im just not convinced that Melynk is Skeletor.
 

BonkTastic

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Nov 9, 2010
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Im just not convinced that Melynk is Skeletor.

Melnyk is too skinny to be Skeletor.

If anything, he's Sly Sludge from Captain Planet:

char_3210.jpg



Seriously though, I get your points. I just wanted to reset the arguments in the pro & anti-Melnyk camps. Emotions can get high, sometimes it's good to step away for a second and try and bring the debate back to reasonable talking points.
 

Icelevel

During these difficult times...
Sep 9, 2009
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The ability to carry conversation based on speculation and assumption is impressive. Let's see how long this can go.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,886
9,829
Montreal, Canada
what a gongshow we can be at times. i'm worried karlsson will be gone too at some point

I summarized this board long ago...

thumb.jpg



My POV on the situation is I really liked MacLean's personality. I thought he was doing a good job (check his record in 4 seasons) with a young inexperienced rebuilding team with one of the lowest payroll... Couldn't ask for more. But what is the only thing I care about these days is player development. If Cameron does a better job at this, then it's all good.

It's incredible how 80% of the board was whining at MacLean non-stop, and now that he is fired, 80% of the board still whines that it happened... :laugh: classic HF Sens, yeah what a gong show lol
 

Samsquanch

Raging Bull Squatch
Nov 28, 2008
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Now look at the two bolded statements. Statement 1 is that no one is piling on. Statement 2 starts with a correct statement (MacLean did say that he did what he felt he needed to do in order to play in June) and then adds a parenthetical that is not only completely false, but it basically piles on and completely contradicts statement 1.

There is no contradiction. No one from the organization is piling on. I think you need to separate me (and the media) from the Senators organization.

When a man says that he has absolutely no regrets, and firmly believes that he wouldnt change a thing, that indicates to me that he was very set in doing things his way.

Maybe his was the right way, we'll never know. Maybe he was actually a super awesome and open guy, and all the players and upper management are just whiners/scapegoaters. Its possible, sure. The players have definitely taken some of the responsibility (as should management imo).

But what we do know is that the team wasn't wasn't winning, management (+media and fans) continued to see the same mistakes being made on the ice and the same horrendously bad defensive play for a year and a half, and that a decision (that shocked no one) was finally made to roll the dice on someone else at helm.

No one has done a character assassination of PM, just correctly pointing out that it has clearly not been working this last year and a half. In a results based industry, thats not a good thing.

At no point in time did PMac ever say that he was not willing to bend for anyone. In fact, he said the exact opposite when he pointed out that he door was always open, but it takes two sides to have a conversation.

Whether or not Maclean says he was an open book and willing to exchange ideas, the overwhelmingly obvious evidence over the last year and a half would indicate that he was not as flexible as you believe him to be.


So yeah, you have shown in technicolour that criticisms of people piling on to MacLean are 100% correct. Thank you for providing a very good example of how the garbage media feeds to us via the likes of Garrioch etc get digested and regurgitated by the fan base.

Whats your problem anyway? Again you really need to separate the media, fans, and posters on HFboards from the actual Ottawa Senators franchise, which is all I was speaking too.

I believed that a change was necessary as well, and I didnt formulate that opinion because big Bruce and co. correctly pointed out what was plainly obvious to anyone who was paying attention. I had no faith in his ability to manage ice time or with the line combos, and would have welcomed a change after the infamous shootout lineup game.

Thanks for implying Im a moron and sheep though.
 
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Samsquanch

Raging Bull Squatch
Nov 28, 2008
8,231
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Sudbury
It's incredible how 80% of the board was whining at MacLean non-stop, and now that he is fired, 80% of the board still whines that it happened... :laugh: classic HF Sens, yeah what a gong show lol

This is honestly the most comical part of it all. Some people just have to complain one way or another. Pretty sure I've heard through the grapevine that this is common practice for the people of Ottawa... ;)
 

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