Speculation: Mike Babcock fired by the Leafs, should we take him back?

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yzerman. Please.Do.not.call.him.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think Redwings fans tend to forget the animosity that players had for Bowman when he was coaching them. He didn't just bench them. He never bothered to explain his actions to them either. The difference is the proven success he has in the playoffs which allowed him a lot of leniency afterwards.

I think Blashill(just like Lewis) has been too soft on our players. Perhaps we need another coach to start demanding accountability from our players and Babcock can certainly do that. Our recent history of Stanley Cup runs were predicated on having those kind of hard nosed coaches.

I totally agree with you up to the part where it sounds like you might want Babcock back in Detroit.

I'm not against it across the board, but think the team is way too far from being competitive.


On a sidenote I do think it's funny some Wings fans are now mad at Babcock because he should've won more Cups with the Wings "stacked" roster, but no one seems to mention Dave Lewis...

 

[Martinez]

Offer him the griffins job

 

[Red Stanley]

Yzerman hired Babcock to coach Team Canada twice.

Could have been a purely political move, as it literally didn't matter whom they hired to coach those teams. I could have two gold medals right now for coaching.

 

[FMichael]

I totally agree with you up to the part where it sounds like you might want Babcock back in Detroit.

I'm not against it across the board, but think the team is way too far from being competitive.


On a sidenote I do think it's funny some Wings fans are now mad at Babcock because he should've won more Cups with the Wings "stacked" roster, but no one seems to mention Dave Lewis...

Must also keep in mind we had a few early exists with Bowman behind the bench as well.

 

[Christien]

Can some team not named the Red Wings hire Babcock so we don't have to talk about this anymore

 

[odin1981]

It won't happen but he cannot get hired fast enough for the conversation to end quick enough.

 

[lomekian]

I totally agree with you up to the part where it sounds like you might want Babcock back in Detroit.

I'm not against it across the board, but think the team is way too far from being competitive.


On a sidenote I do think it's funny some Wings fans are now mad at Babcock because he should've won more Cups with the Wings "stacked" roster, but no one seems to mention Dave Lewis...

Dave Lewis wasn't around long enough to be of interest as a HC. He underachieved and paid for it with his job in double quick time.

 

[wingerdinger]

of course babs is a dick, but that leafs roster is full of soft, overpaid, poor characters, just firing mike wont fix all their problems.

 

[Red Stanley]

I totally agree with you up to the part where it sounds like you might want Babcock back in Detroit.

I'm not against it across the board, but think the team is way too far from being competitive.


On a sidenote I do think it's funny some Wings fans are now mad at Babcock because he should've won more Cups with the Wings "stacked" roster, but no one seems to mention Dave Lewis...

I've always had a problem with Babcock because of his inflexibility and blatant arrogance (especially when he trying really really hard to sound humble and you can see it physically hurts him to not take all the credit and bask in the glory of the compliments thrown his way). A good coach will do well implementing his system in the right environment. A great coach will adapt to his environment and thrive in most circumstances. Babcock is not a great coach. Dave Lewis has never been mistaken for a great head coach, much less the greatest of all time. We can do better than either one of these individuals when our team is finally ready to do something.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

of course babs is a dick, but that leafs roster is full of soft, overpaid, poor characters, just firing mike wont fix all their problems.

Dubas is next

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Can some team not named the Red Wings hire Babcock so we don't have to talk about this anymore

Grand Rapids?

 

[TheClap]

I totally agree with you up to the part where it sounds like you might want Babcock back in Detroit.

I'm not against it across the board, but think the team is way too far from being competitive.


On a sidenote I do think it's funny some Wings fans are now mad at Babcock because he should've won more Cups with the Wings "stacked" roster, but no one seems to mention Dave Lewis...

Because Dave Lewis had the gig for less than half the time Jeff Blashill did. Why would we mention him? He underachieved and deservedly lost his job.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I totally agree with you up to the part where it sounds like you might want Babcock back in Detroit.

I'm not against it across the board, but think the team is way too far from being competitive.


On a sidenote I do think it's funny some Wings fans are now mad at Babcock because he should've won more Cups with the Wings "stacked" roster, but no one seems to mention Dave Lewis...

I think people make fun of Lewis a lot and I have seen it a lot around here when he is mentioned.

Stanley Cups are hard to win, but I would think one is pretty much the basement expectation with the teams he was armed with. Babcock generally delivers to the team you give him. He overachieved with the Nyquist and Franzen lead team that got smashed in the playoffs by Boston and the 2003 Ducks and he underachieved with the 2011 team and 2006 team. He coaches to expectations, give him the best team in the world for a couple weeks and he has delivered there too. He had the best team in the NHL for a three year stretch and delivered one cup. He was given the worst team in hockey his first year in Toronto and he finished dead last. I get a little tired of the waxing poetically about how amazing he is at times.

I think he is a good coach, getting your talent to play at that level isn't nothing and he is certainly probably in the top 10 there in terms of active coaches. He is also a guy that got dunked on by Trotz and Coach Q in a series. He got out adjusted by Cooper though with less talent but still had leads against both Chicago and Tampa that he coughed up as we declined. I just don't see the magic people go on and on about, I think it is born out of team Canada mostly.

While saying all that, I think that is the bigger problem for Toronto. I think this is what you can get out of the Charmin soft team with a debacle of an assembly of D-man. While they might spike more offensively and right themselves into the playoffs, that D-core cannot go on a run and he needed that to save him this summer anyway.

 

[Flowah]

Could have been a purely political move, as it literally didn't matter whom they hired to coach those teams. I could have two gold medals right now for coaching.

You could have 4 gold medals if they could ice 2 teams and 2 winners could each take gold. That much talent where you have the luxury of picking handedness and chemistry over pure talent? Leaving off hall of fame players?

Yeah *anyone* could have coached that.

 

[MBH]

Has Babcock underachieved in Toronto before this season?
He takes over in 15-16... has the sitting at 16-11-11 (43 points in 38 games) on Jan. 6... before the team goes into tank mode.
He turns them into a playoff team in Year 2. Goes over 100 points in Year 3. And reaches 100 points in Year 4.
I know they lost in round 1 three straight years - but is that really underperforming just a couple years into a rebuild?

I don't think Babcock is being fired for underachieving. I think he's being fired because he's too f***ing hard to work with - from the player side and management side.

Like Holland, Dubas never seemed to get Babcock the kinds of players Babcock could use.
Did anyone think Tyson Barrie is more a Babcock guy than Kadri?

Dubas is one of those advanced stat guys and I don't think Babcock cares about advanced stats.

 

[kliq]

Has Babcock underachieved in Toronto before this season?
He takes over in 15-16... has the sitting at 16-11-11 (43 points in 38 games) on Jan. 6... before the team goes into tank mode.
He turns them into a playoff team in Year 2. Goes over 100 points in Year 3. And reaches 100 points in Year 4.
I know they lost in round 1 three straight years - but is that really underperforming just a couple years into a rebuild?

I don't think Babcock is being fired for underachieving. I think he's being fired because he's too ****ing hard to work with - from the player side and management side.

Like Holland, Dubas never seemed to get Babcock the kinds of players Babcock could use.
Did anyone think Tyson Barrie is more a Babcock guy than Kadri?

Dubas is one of those advanced stat guys and I don't think Babcock cares about advanced stats.

I agree with this for the most part. The only thing I would add is I believe that anytime a GM inherits a team with a coach in place, its only a matter of time until the coach is fired unless the coach overachieves. Babs is difficult, but you have to think Shanahan knew what he was getting into.

This year aside, I dont think Babs underachieved in Toronto. I think Toronto was built in a way where beating a team like Boston in a 7 game series was going to be extremely extremely hard.

 

[kliq]

This aged well

You have to love it when people talk so matter of fact, when in reality we all are just stating opinions based on limited information.

 

[TheClap]

Must also keep in mind we had a few early exists with Bowman behind the bench as well.

His first season. Then finals, conference finals, Cup, Cup. Back to back Cups and 5 consecutive trips to conference finals or better builds enough goodwill to last another first round exit before your 3rd Stanley Cup.

 

[Blowfish]

Commodore is seriously unhinged when it comes to Babcock.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Babcock was a total jerk, but Commodore has been ranting about him for over 7 years now, claiming Babcock ruined his career. It went from entertaining to just sad at this point. Move on dude.

As for the question in the OP, no thanks. It's just not time and though it's not really based on logic, there's more appeal to me in turning over a new leaf than bringing in a guy who's coached the Wings for 10 years. The Wings aren't not Montreal.

Love it - I want a Commodore after NHL career...There are more than a few Bacbcock "total jerks" I would like 7 years ranting on about.

This is Commodore's day!

 

[kliq]

Leafs fans are overjoyed by it. I can't say that I would be THAT excited.

I honestly think their record is an accurate representation of their team

When you are a team in the position the Leafs are in, and you fail, for fans (especially the delusional one's) its so much easier to cope when you can convince yourself that its all the fault of one person. Then when you get rid of that one person, you can convince yourself that everything will change.

I'm not even saying this move will not work out, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they get worse (compared to last year, not the start of this year).

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Dave Lewis wasn't around long enough to be of interest as a HC. He underachieved and paid for it with his job in double quick time.

Because Dave Lewis had the gig for less than half the time Jeff Blashill did. Why would we mention him? He underachieved and deservedly lost his job.

I was specifically talking about Lewis regarding having a stacked roster and feeling the Wings should've had another Cup. For any Cups missed with a stacked roster, Lewis is top of the list. Babcock took the Wings to the conference finals, the Cup, one win away from the Cup, then some second round losses. A bounce, one less injury, or a suspension and the Wings win in 09. I guess I don't see that time as notable underachievement.

I've always had a problem with Babcock because of his inflexibility and blatant arrogance (especially when he trying really really hard to sound humble and you can see it physically hurts him to not take all the credit and bask in the glory of the compliments thrown his way). A good coach will do well implementing his system in the right environment. A great coach will adapt to his environment and thrive in most circumstances. Babcock is not a great coach. Dave Lewis has never been mistaken for a great head coach, much less the greatest of all time. We can do better than either one of these individuals when our team is finally ready to do something.

I don't disagree much at all with your assessment. For the adjustment stuff, I've seen so many fan bases lamenting their coach having pet players and failing to adjust and conversely complaining that the coach is using the line blender again. Coaches look like a genius when it works and idiots when it doesn't. It's frustrating for sure but I don't find Babcock exceptional in that regard.

Look, I've already wasted more words on Babcock than is worth it. I think he was a good coach when he was here, stayed too long, and it was a good thing he moved on. Maybe it's because I don't live in the Detroit/Toronto area and didn't have to endure the Babcock signing frenzy, but to me the vitriol directed at him from Wings fans feels a little disproportionate to what happened during his time here.

 

[TheClap]

Whats the source on Holland saying he wasn't getting a fair shake?

Commodore didn't play another season in the NHL after that and it wasn't because of Babcock. The dude just wasn't good. People probably don't slap Commie down because it's entertaining to hear a lunatic rant about someone who's a well known coach.

Look, I'm assuming Babcock is a dick to his players. Who cares? Bowman was an ******* too. Plenty of NHL coaches are. There's an argument to be made that maybe that doesn't work with the kids in Toronto, but if it's between Babcock and Commodore as to who's the bigger *******, I'm going with the guy blaming everyone else for his problems and obsessing about the same things for years.

Did you have as big of a problem with Blashill sitting Cholowski for his first game in his hometown? And he sat someone else in a similar situation, just can't think of it at the moment.

Can we please stop the Scotty Bowman comparisons?

At Babcock's current age of 56, Scotty Bowman already had 5 Stanley Cups. That goes a long way toward respect despite being an asshole.

Babcock has more in common with Marc Crawford.

 

[TheClap]

I was specifically talking about Lewis regarding having a stacked roster and feeling the Wings should've had another Cup. For any Cups missed with a stacked roster, Lewis is top of the list. Babcock took the Wings to the conference finals, the Cup, one win away from the Cup, then some second round losses. A bounce, one less injury, or a suspension and the Wings win in 09. I guess I don't see that time as notable underachievement.

I know what you were talking about.
Dave Lewis underachieved and was deservedly fired. Nobody mentions him because we all know he wasn't any good.
Mike Babcock wins one Cup with a stacked roster and gets praised as the best coach in the NHL by many.

It's a bad comparison.

 

[Winger98]

I think Dave Lewis gets way too much flak for how this team did under his watch. They still racked up their points in the regular season, but their roster was aging fast and had some clear issues that were occasionally exacerbated by injury. It was a weird time where we still had some name guys like Feds, Yzerman, Hull, and Shanny but they were just getting too old to carry the team up front, while Z and D weren't ready to step into that void and make the team theirs. I'm not saying Lewis was a great coach by any stretch of the imagination, but those years weren't disasters, either.