Speculation: Mike Babcock fired by the Leafs, should we take him back?

[Red Stanley]

I don't disagree much at all with your assessment. For the adjustment stuff, I've seen so many fan bases lamenting their coach having pet players and failing to adjust and conversely complaining that the coach is using the line blender again. Coaches look like a genius when it works and idiots when it doesn't. It's frustrating for sure but I don't find Babcock exceptional in that regard.

Look, I've already wasted more words on Babcock than is worth it. I think he was a good coach when he was here, stayed too long, and it was a good thing he moved on. Maybe it's because I don't live in the Detroit/Toronto area and didn't have to endure the Babcock signing frenzy, but to me the vitriol directed at him from Wings fans feels a little disproportionate to what happened during his time here.

He's definitely not the exception and more like the norm, especially when it comes to his generation of coaches. My dislike of him stems more from his type of personality, which I can't stand. And you're right, this horse has been beaten to death already.

 

[TheClap]

I think Dave Lewis gets way too much flak for how this team did under his watch. They still racked up their points in the regular season, but their roster was aging fast and had some clear issues that were occasionally exacerbated by injury. It was a weird time where we still had some name guys like Feds, Yzerman, Hull, and Shanny but they were just getting too old to carry the team up front, while Z and D weren't ready to step into that void and make the team theirs. I'm not saying Lewis was a great coach by any stretch of the imagination, but those years weren't disasters, either.

They were on par with Mike Babcocks 2006, 2010-2013 seasons.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Has Babcock underachieved in Toronto before this season?
He takes over in 15-16... has the sitting at 16-11-11 (43 points in 38 games) on Jan. 6... before the team goes into tank mode.
He turns them into a playoff team in Year 2. Goes over 100 points in Year 3. And reaches 100 points in Year 4.
I know they lost in round 1 three straight years - but is that really underperforming just a couple years into a rebuild?

I don't think Babcock is being fired for underachieving. I think he's being fired because he's too ****ing hard to work with - from the player side and management side.

Like Holland, Dubas never seemed to get Babcock the kinds of players Babcock could use.
Did anyone think Tyson Barrie is more a Babcock guy than Kadri?

Dubas is one of those advanced stat guys and I don't think Babcock cares about advanced stats.

The biggest thing as far as I'm concerned is Toronto's defense is utter trash. They stockpiled so much talent at forward and are totally lacking on defense. I think Babs gets a bad rap for playing dump and chase towards the end of his time here in Detroit after we lost Rafalski, Lidstrom, Schneider, Cheli and he was extending the playoff streak with Kronwall and pretty much nothing else of note on defense. Lids, Raf, Schneider and Kronner all had their best point totals playing for Babcock so he can play high scoring hockey.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. If Yzerman wants Babcock that's cool with me; if he decides that's not the move I'm totally down with that. I have zero ill will towards Babcock but I also don't see that we have a roster that is going to be conducive to him turning things around until our defense gets rebuilt. One interesting thing I remember from just before he left was that there were some suggestions that he wanted to start to rebuild but that Holland rebuffed him and wanted to do everything he could to keep the playoff streak alive. So if Babs did come back it would be interesting to see how he would handle the rebuild. He turned the Leafs around quickly but that roster obviously wasn't built for playoff success.

My guy all along has been Gerard Gallant, but with that being said I'd be fine with Babs. Or without.

 

[Retire91]

Please no babcock. Any coach would struggle with this roster but we all saw how Babcock responded to loss of talent. He responded by implementing real gud hockey which was painful to watch. Grinder dump and chase top lines, veteran wins the tie hockey killed this franchise just as much as many of the picks not landing. I really don't want to go through that again. Can Babcock develop young players? Based on his track record of leaving some pretty butt hurt players where he has been I would be worried what his style would do to a developing team. His line combinations and special teams in the last 3-4 years with the wings were infuriating.

At least it seems like Blash develops young players well, and at times he has got this roster to over perform. I still don't think the season's struggle is his fault but rather a very top heavy roster with no D just finally performing exactly how it should. My only trouble with Blash is he seems like Babcock in a lot of ways and I worry about him once the roster is together if he goes real gud all over just like Babcock

 

[lilidk]

Steven will make wright decision

 

[14ari13]

He still "had no defencemen", because all the millions were overpaid for offense. They also lost a matchup-center in Kadri.

How Colorado has survived (being better with than without) without Barrie, I think there's some serious defensive flaws on that guy. Worse than Gardiner had. Ceci was already most hated defenceman at Ottawa and Dubas brings him in? I think Zaitsev was better, even though he wasn't enough good either.

So, defensive efforts are ingnored from the management.

Babcock loves defence. His dream players are Glendenning and Draper.
He destroyed the magic between Zetterberg and Datsyuk and never got it back.

Babcock is all about work hard and grind.

 

[TheClap]

Steven will make wright decision

I spilled spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

I don’t want Helm and Abby playing 18 min again. I’m only taking Babcock when I have a team of underachieving superstars that need a kick in the ass by someone with an even bigger ego. He was the perfect hire after Lewis but stuck around too long. All that aside I’d like to see him in an advising role until he finds a new job. That locker room must’ve been completely toxic and left the Leafs with no choice. Media and fan pressure was there but it’s still ballsy to fire a Cup and Gold Medal winning coach half way through his contract. It’s not like the Leafs have a closing window, their core is still 25 and under. Kind of a Mickey Mouse move UNLESS the rift was simply that bad.

 

[FMichael]

Please no babcock. Any coach would struggle with this roster but we all saw how Babcock responded to loss of talent. He responded by implementing real gud hockey which was painful to watch. Grinder dump and chase top lines, veteran wins the tie hockey killed this franchise just as much as many of the picks not landing. I really don't want to go through that again. Can Babcock develop young players? Based on his track record of leaving some pretty butt hurt players where he has been I would be worried what his style would do to a developing team. His line combinations and special teams in the last 3-4 years with the wings were infuriating.

At least it seems like Blash develops young players well, and at times he has got this roster to over perform. I still don't think the season's struggle is his fault but rather a very top heavy roster with no D just finally performing exactly how it should. My only trouble with Blash is he seems like Babcock in a lot of ways and I worry about him once the roster is together if he goes real gud all over just like Babcock

Babcock loves defence. His dream players are Glendenning and Draper.
He destroyed the magic between Zetterberg and Datsyuk and never got it back.

Babcock is all about work hard and grind.

Truth be told I think most coaches in todays NHL employ a similar style...When there's no obvious play/pass to be made - get it outta our own end any way ya can, and forecheck heavily...When the puck leaves the attacking zone - backcheck like a mo-fo.

I don't think there's a coach out there that encourages hi-octane offense anymore

 

[lilidk]

Babcock loves defence. His dream players are Glendenning and Draper.
He destroyed the magic between Zetterberg and Datsyuk and never got it back.

Babcock is all about work hard and grind.

And one ofthe reasons why Z&D were so good because they work hard and grinded. By the way Crosby the same way. Only skills not enough to win in hockey.

 

[deca guard]

Truth be told I think most coaches in todays NHL employ a similar style...When there's no obvious play/pass to be made - get it outta our own end any way ya can, and forecheck heavily...When the puck leaves the attacking zone - backcheck like a mo-fo.

I don't think there's a coach out there that encourages hi-octane offense anymore

to me players over the decades have gotten bigger and faster leading to a shortage of space for the offensively talented to function in , the good skaters are just run into the boards with no room to fly . and its just like 3 on 3 is so exciting because of more room = make the rinks bigger creates more room meaning more exciting and high scoring hockey ! but idiots run nhl so we watch ugly power plays 24/7 !

 

[Retire91]

In a lot of ways that is true. You have to be fast (and I mean NHL fastest skater fast) and have elite tools at that speed. There are only like what 14 players in the world like that? Or have some elite tools and be like 6'4' 250 lbs. This is another reason why the wings need top 5 picks to rebuild. You can't touch these players through trade or FA. Unless you get a tyler seguin trade and those happen even less than top 5 picks panning out.

But I still don't want Babcock back, we know what we have with Babcock and I don't want it.

 

[Bondurant]

My guy all along has been Gerard Gallant, but with that being said I'd be fine with Babs. Or without.

Gallant would be a great choice if he's a sacrificial lamb for Vegas as the enter into the cap abyss.

 

[Tirekicker]

And one ofthe reasons why Z&D were so good because they work hard and grinded. By the way Crosby the same way. Only skills not enough to win in hockey.

Yup.

Babcock is right about this much: Heavy, two-way hockey is winning hockey. Is Nazem Kadri a gamebreaking pure scorer like Auston Matthews? No. Do I absolutely, positively want and need an Auston Matthews *and* a Nazem Kadri on my team? You bet your ass I do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYN43xSEqAw

 

[chances14]

I wouldn't be mad if he was brought if yzerman felt it was the right move

 

[MBH]

The biggest thing as far as I'm concerned is Toronto's defense is utter trash. They stockpiled so much talent at forward and are totally lacking on defense. I think Babs gets a bad rap for playing dump and chase towards the end of his time here in Detroit after we lost Rafalski, Lidstrom, Schneider, Cheli and he was extending the playoff streak with Kronwall and pretty much nothing else of note on defense. Lids, Raf, Schneider and Kronner all had their best point totals playing for Babcock so he can play high scoring hockey.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. If Yzerman wants Babcock that's cool with me; if he decides that's not the move I'm totally down with that. I have zero ill will towards Babcock but I also don't see that we have a roster that is going to be conducive to him turning things around until our defense gets rebuilt. One interesting thing I remember from just before he left was that there were some suggestions that he wanted to start to rebuild but that Holland rebuffed him and wanted to do everything he could to keep the playoff streak alive. So if Babs did come back it would be interesting to see how he would handle the rebuild. He turned the Leafs around quickly but that roster obviously wasn't built for playoff success.

My guy all along has been Gerard Gallant, but with that being said I'd be fine with Babs. Or without.

Is the defense really that bad?
Rielly.
Muzzin.
Barrie.
Ceci.
Dermott.

LOL, these f***ers should have kept Marchenko to actually play defense.... suppress goals...

I wonder if they'd want McIlrath.
Cheap. Can PK.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

No Babs. We need someone that can work to bring out the potential in all of these bargain first rounders we're accumulating. Babs isn't that guy.

He'll land somewhere, though...

 

[MBH]

A very rare decent analysis from The Athletic.
Mirtle: The Babcock-Dubas marriage was doomed from the...

Dubas’ unwillingness to endorse Babcock in April didn’t go unnoticed by the Leafs players, most of whom weren’t sad Wednesday to see the coach go.

the offseason unfolded and the roster got more and more Dubas-y, with Babcock guys such as Ron Hainsey, Nikita Zaitsev, Patrick Marleau, Connor Brown and others swapped for more skilled models such as Nic Petan and Jason Spezza.

So when the losses started to pile up, who was going to back that bet on Babcock? Who was going to defend the coach still relying on triumphs from more than a decade ago? If you alienate those above and below you, and you don’t produce wins, you’re in trouble in pro sports. No matter your pedigree.

In my estimation, Babcock lost the room in Toronto - just like he did in Detroit. So he had to go.
But Toronto fans who think this team underachieved are in for a rude awakening.
They'll probably bounce back this year to 90+something points and make the playoffs. Maybe they even win a round. But they're probably not a cup contender.

 

[MBH]

No Babs. We need someone that can work to bring out the potential in all of these bargain first rounders we're accumulating. Babs isn't that guy.

He'll land somewhere, though...

If he takes a new job, they better pay well.
He's going to make what? $6.5M a year to sit at home.
How many teams are going to beat that?

I think he sits until at least the end of the regular season... and when the carousel gets fired up in April... he'll start taking offers.
Unless... would Buffalo fire their new coach 2 months into the season?

 

[Frk It]

 

[FMichael]

Is the defense really that bad?
Rielly.
Muzzin.
Barrie.
Ceci.
Dermott.

LOL, these ****ers should have kept Marchenko to actually play defense.... suppress goals...

I wonder if they'd want McIlrath.
Cheap. Can PK.

Leafs are a team built by Dubas to be fast, and offensive minded...Nothing at all like these other dinosaur GMs who feel solid 2-way play is needed to win the Cup.

Speaking of Dubas - has anyone heard/read anything from him these past 24 hours? Must still be hiding under his bed...

 

[Tirekicker]

Leafs are a team built by Dubas to be fast, and offensive minded...Nothing at all like these other dinosaur GMs who feel solid 2-way play is needed to win the Cup.

Speaking of Dubas - has anyone heard/read anything from him these past 24 hours? Must still be hiding under his bed...

I'm fully expecting the media to throw Babcock under the bus.

"Babcock represents an outdated, obsolete Old Boys' Club mindset blah blah blah."

"Ultimately, Babcock couldn't adapt to the new NHL. Today's game is about speed and skill blah blah blah."

"Every night he was able to run a 1-2-3 punch of Tavares-Matthews-Kadri, i.e. two elite 1Cs and one of the league's better matchup pivots (who would be a solid 2C on a number of teams). So, why did the team perform poorly when Kadri -- one of the league's premier matchup pivots -- was traded? The inescapable conclusion is that Babcock is a dingus."

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Any speculation on where he ends up?

 

[Tirekicker]

Any speculation on where he ends up?

My money's currently on Tampa.

 

[FabricDetails]

Guilty pleasure alert - Mike Commodore's twitter feed has been entertaining in the past 24 hours, haha. Probably the best example of schadenfreude I can think of in the hockey world.