OT: Michigan Sports Talk IV: The Voyage to...

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newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Come on, the offense doesn't come down to the kicker. There's no doubt he lost the game for them but the defense gave the offense any momentum that was lost. If the offense is going to let missed FGs get to them after the defense gave them a ton of momentum on some key stops then they're mental midgets

If the kicker makes 2 kicks, the offense has put up 20 points in the first half with all the momentum going Detroits way. 20 points in a half is a damn good offensive showing against a good D. Instead he missed those kicks and gave the Bills great field position. The Bills couldnt do anything on offense, and Martin has been beasting on kickoffs. He makes those kicks its probably a 12 point swing the other way.

And you say missed FGs shouldnt bother the offense. Sure the odd one, but when you have made one past 30 yards all year and hit one in the, what last 7 now thats going to let an offense get to them.

Missing out on those points made them lose the game but if you take into account the difference in field position and how the defense was playing, I could have easily seen that game becoming a blowout in the second half pretty easily
 

TatarTangle

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Sep 28, 2011
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If the kicker makes 2 kicks, the offense has put up 20 points in the first half with all the momentum going Detroits way. 20 points in a half is a damn good offensive showing against a good D. Instead he missed those kicks and gave the Bills great field position. The Bills couldnt do anything on offense, and Martin has been beasting on kickoffs. He makes those kicks its probably a 12 point swing the other way.

And you say missed FGs shouldnt bother the offense. Sure the odd one, but when you have made one past 30 yards all year and hit one in the, what last 7 now thats going to let an offense get to them.

Missing out on those points made them lose the game but if you take into account the difference in field position and how the defense was playing, I could have easily seen that game becoming a blowout in the second half pretty easily
I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree, but my point is if the offense is dependant on what the kicker does then it's a pretty ****** offense to begin with
 

tacogeoff

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Jul 18, 2011
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I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree, but my point is if the offense is dependant on what the kicker does then it's a pretty ****** offense to begin with

I agree with that but it would of been nice for the kicker to pick up the slack of the offense and not fall flat on his face going 0/3. It is a clutch position that can win you and obviously lose you games. They need a consistant guy in that position that can kick straight........if the game was out doors he may of completed 2 of 3 though :sarcasm:
 

TatarTangle

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Sep 28, 2011
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I agree with that but it would of been nice for the kicker to pick up the slack of the offense and not fall flat on his face going 0/3. It is a clutch position that can win you and obviously lose you games. They need a consistant guy in that position that can kick straight........if the game was out doors he may of completed 2 of 3 though :sarcasm:
No doubt, missing Hanson big time right now.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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Tough to watch. The window is closing quickly on this roster.

I would consider arguing the window pretty much is closed if they can't get it done this year. Scherzer is going to greener pastures, Hunter is aging and we don't have a real centerfielder, our BP seems to be a continual mess, and our better prospects are probably still a year out. plus there isn't much on the free agent front.

I'd consider blowing it up a bit after this year. Deal Price, let Hunter walk unless he's cheap and on a one year deal, maybe deal Kinsler and try handing second over to a kid. Get cheaper, and stock up on some prospects from deals to jump start a quicker rebuild.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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Hopefully that was Ausmus' last game as a Tiger. It's not all on him but I just don't like him or his decisions. What a complete failure.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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With that bullpen the Tigers weren't going to win a WS anyway. In any other sport people would pin such persistent failure in one position on coaching.
 

TatarTangle

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I think he'll be back despite me not wanting him to. They'll chalk it up to the bullpen blowing it which you can't argue, but, Ausmus made some stupid decisions.

I'm not sure what to think on where to go from here. Their line-up is really only a three person team in Miggy - VMart - JD.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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I would consider arguing the window pretty much is closed if they can't get it done this year. Scherzer is going to greener pastures, Hunter is aging and we don't have a real centerfielder, our BP seems to be a continual mess, and our better prospects are probably still a year out. plus there isn't much on the free agent front.

I'd consider blowing it up a bit after this year. Deal Price, let Hunter walk unless he's cheap and on a one year deal, maybe deal Kinsler and try handing second over to a kid. Get cheaper, and stock up on some prospects from deals to jump start a quicker rebuild.

plus Victor Martinez was their best hitter this year and might be gone too,maybe they end up keeping him but he is a free agent
 

guinness

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Mar 11, 2002
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I think he'll be back despite me not wanting him to. They'll chalk it up to the bullpen blowing it which you can't argue, but, Ausmus made some stupid decisions.

I'm not sure what to think on where to go from here. Their line-up is really only a three person team in Miggy - VMart - JD.

And JD has only done well for about a season...and then look at the other side, the contracts handed out to JV and Miggy.

I think Dombrowski built this team thinking that the starting pitching would be lights out all the time, and the hitters would've been more consistent. Nathan was expected to be better, ditto the rest of the bullpen.

Ausmus made some dumb decisions, but I thought Leyland did weird things too. However, Ausmus' game managment still leaves much to be desired (see game 2 with Sanchez).

My biggest fear, are the Giants winning it all again - guys like Sandoval, and the Brandons are getting it done for them, and that's without Cain and Lincecum for the most part, Peavy and Hudson are some of the other starters. But that team is good defensively too.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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plus Victor Martinez was their best hitter this year and might be gone too,maybe they end up keeping him but he is a free agent

yeah, wouldn't hold it against him if he wants to go somewhere else at this point. I'm not totally up on baseball's rules, but can we extend a QO on him to at least get a pick when he signs somewhere else?

And JD has only done well for about a season...and then look at the other side, the contracts handed out to JV and Miggy.

I think Dombrowski built this team thinking that the starting pitching would be lights out all the time, and the hitters would've been more consistent. Nathan was expected to be better, ditto the rest of the bullpen.

Ausmus made some dumb decisions, but I thought Leyland did weird things too. However, Ausmus' game managment still leaves much to be desired (see game 2 with Sanchez).

My biggest fear, are the Giants winning it all again - guys like Sandoval, and the Brandons are getting it done for them, and that's without Cain and Lincecum for the most part, Peavy and Hudson are some of the other starters. But that team is good defensively too.

I still don't mind Ausmus pulling Sanchez in game two, but I don't feel like going over that again. What's done is done. Just not our year, I guess, with so many vets hitting the age wall, and some guys just blowing up out of the blue (Joba, Soria, Kinsler).

Agree about not wanting to see the Giants win it. I'm pulling for KC at this point. That organization deserves some good news after their years of misery.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
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Farmington
I'm watching SNF and Al Michael's just mentioned what a horrible week it was in New England/Boston and was like the Bruins are pretty good. Shut up Al. You're an avid NHL fan and know the Bruins are awesome.
 

Ricelund

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Apr 16, 2006
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The Tigers are quickly going to become the Phillies without the World Series win, I'm afraid.
 

Shoalzie

Trust me!
May 16, 2003
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Needless to say, this weekend blew hard.

Issues heading into the winter:
Catcher -- Can Avila continue playing when he takes so much physical punishment?

Shortstop -- Is Iglesias ready to take back his job?

Center Field -- Is Davis good enough to the be everyday CF?

Right Field -- If Hunter retires, who takes over/who is brought in?

Designated Hitter -- Can you re-sign Martinez?

Starting Pitching -- Who replaces Scherzer in the rotation as the #1 and where do you find a new starter?

Relief Pitching -- A full reconstruction of the bullpen is needed. Will Rondon be an answer as a setup man or future closer?

Manager -- Is Ausmus cut out for this job and will he learn from his rookie mistakes?
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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Needless to say, this weekend blew hard.

Issues heading into the winter:
Catcher -- Can Avila continue playing when he takes so much physical punishment?

Shortstop -- Is Iglesias ready to take back his job?

Center Field -- Is Davis good enough to the be everyday CF?

Right Field -- If Hunter retires, who takes over/who is brought in?

Designated Hitter -- Can you re-sign Martinez?

Starting Pitching -- Who replaces Scherzer in the rotation as the #1 and where do you find a new starter?

Relief Pitching -- A full reconstruction of the bullpen is needed. Will Rondon be an answer as a setup man or future closer?

Manager -- Is Ausmus cut out for this job and will he learn from his rookie mistakes?

Scary thing with Avila is that despite his horrible bat, he still had the fifth best WAR among catchers in the AL (among players with at least 400 ABs). Part of me wants to advocate buying him out because of health questions, but it'd be surprisingly hard to replace him. I think our best bet would be to keep him for the last year of his contract, but bring up McCann to back him and apprentice to take the reins the following year.

SS: If Iglesias isn't ready to go, I'd be fine rolling with Suarez as the fulltime SS next year.

CF: Do we have much of a choice? Our best option outside of Davis is a healthy Dirks or just handing it over to Collins. Dirks has bigger health questions than Avila, though.

RF: The guy I like the most is probably Melky Cabrera, but are we still seriously contending next year? If so, he would probably be worth the investment. If not, have to consider just going with Moya.

DH:Not a lot of options outside of Martinez. could be a spot for Hunter, if Hunter wants to come back.

Starting pitching: Good question. Ray didn't look ready at all. Lobstein was up and down, do we want to risk sending him out there every five days? If we wade into free agency, I don't think we'd be aiming for one of the top guys at all. Here is where a Price or Kinsler trade help us, bringing back a young SP with some upside who could step into the fifth spot. Or at least give us enough high end kids that we can rotate them up and down from the minors.

Relief pitching: I think we have to pick up Soriano's option, and hope Rondon can be healthy. Other than, take a flier on someone. Maybe a healthy Hanrahan. Maybe look at bringing Veras back or one of the older closers on the market will be looking for a home. We haven't had great luck spending big bucks (hello Nathan), so just maybe look for the best arm.

Manager: Ausmus gets at least another year. It's not like these Tiger teams aren't flawed, and they didn't finish drastically below (or above) expectations this year. I think the players let him down more than vice versa.
 

guinness

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Mar 11, 2002
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The Tigers are quickly going to become the Phillies without the World Series win, I'm afraid.

Sounds plausible.

Continuing the post-mortem, not sure what the Fister/Price trades really brought to the team. Price wasn't terrible, but it seemed to be either feast or famine, either he would give up big hits, or the hitters weren't giving him any run support, and I still don't know what the Tigers got out of dealing Fister, besides freeing up money (for a likely departing Scherzer).

I did think JV improved somewhat at the end, and hopefully a healthier Miggy next season, outside of that, the team is full of gaping holes and defensively suspect (a healthy Iglesias should help there too) and Ausmus learns from his mistakes.

It just pains me to watch a team, like the Giants, seem to have horseshoes in their back pockets come playoff time, whereas Detroit's stars seem to falter.

I wouldn't mind seeing a beltway series with Baltimore and Washington or even a battle of Missouri (although ick on the Cards) in the WS. Anyone but SF.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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Sounds plausible.

Continuing the post-mortem, not sure what the Fister/Price trades really brought to the team. Price wasn't terrible, but it seemed to be either feast or famine, either he would give up big hits, or the hitters weren't giving him any run support, and I still don't know what the Tigers got out of dealing Fister, besides freeing up money (for a likely departing Scherzer).

I did think JV improved somewhat at the end, and hopefully a healthier Miggy next season, outside of that, the team is full of gaping holes and defensively suspect (a healthy Iglesias should help there too) and Ausmus learns from his mistakes.

It just pains me to watch a team, like the Giants, seem to have horseshoes in their back pockets come playoff time, whereas Detroit's stars seem to falter.

I wouldn't mind seeing a beltway series with Baltimore and Washington or even a battle of Missouri (although ick on the Cards) in the WS. Anyone but SF.

maybe if they hadn't done the Fister trade they wouldn't have even felt a need to trade for Price
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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I don't know how we can say that the Tigers didn't do below expectations given that they were widely tipped to run away with the AL Central and also clearly were in "win now" mode - and in reality ended up clinching the division on the last day and getting swept in the ALDS.

It's actually a disaster of a season if you think about it.
 

Ricelund

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They really shot themselves in the foot with the Fister trade. Had they held onto him, you still have the best rotation in baseball and can put Smyly (who was outstanding with Tampa) in the pen during the playoffs.

The fact that they dealt Fister, who was probably the second-best pitcher in the NL this season, for three guys who contributed virtually nothing is absolutely insane.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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I don't know how we can say that the Tigers didn't do below expectations given that they were widely tipped to run away with the AL Central and also clearly were in "win now" mode - and in reality ended up clinching the division on the last day and getting swept in the ALDS.

It's actually a disaster of a season if you think about it.

I thought most people had us pegged for 88-90 wins, which is exactly where we ended up. We didn't run away with the Central because the Royals played above expectations, or at least had results above expectations.
 

Ricelund

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This season was absolutely a disaster.

They had a $170 million payroll, a $75+ million payroll advantage over the Royals, multiple MVPs and Cy Young winners, and were swept in the first round, largely due to a terrible bullpen... which they knew was a problem last year and failed to address properly. In addition, it's very possible that this is their last year with Scherzer and Martinez.

Painting this as anything less than a disaster is a joke.

Imagine if they hadn't found J.D. Martinez.
 
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