Rumor: Michael Frolik has Habs listed as top destination

[DAChampion]

There is no room in the NHL for DLR if he cannot reach a floor of offensive production, possibly ~20 points.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

I think DLR has good bottom-six scoring potential.

I thought that part of the reason he underproduced in Sweden was that he played against older players?

He did, but his offensive talent has always been the knock against him. It's the reason he wasn't taken in the 1st round of his draft. High-end defensive skill, but no offensive talent and who knows what the potential is?

I think he can be a 30-35 point scorer, but he needs offensive opportunities in the AHL to show what he can really do, because he won't get the chances on the main roster.

 

[19VJ17]

You're not really making much sense here, no offense..
PAP and Briere have absolutely nothing in common with Frolik. He's not a one dimensional player who's on the decline and being chased out by his team.
The Jets wanted to re-sign him, he refused, he's coming off a 42pt season with 19g, 4 GWG btw, and is a good two way player. You shouldn't even mention Frolik in the same sentence as Briere and PAP.

I'm not even that big on Frolik, but he helps our team no matter what you say, just like having another Eller would also help.
Sure, it's not what would make us into a Dynasty, but that's not an argument. You're not going to sign or trade for anybody if your standard is for them to be elite. Those are extremely rare to find.
I have no problem seeing Scherbak and Hudon here, and signing Frolik isn't going to prevent that from happening. You can have Frolik here and still add two rookies up front. So I don't see your problem with this.
You can't have space for 4-5 rookies up front. That's a terrible idea.

I didn't mean to have 4-5 rookies up front.
That would be amazing if that happen....then maybe we would have a dynasty
I was hoping to have 2 rookies.
I know you don't want me to compare Frolik with PAP and Briere . But the reality of Frolik making us a better regular season team....and more importantly a better playoff team seem a far stretch for me.
Just like having 4-5 rookies is crazy
Will Frolick help us to win a cup?
Remember who our coach is......
MT will play veterans over rookies if he has a choice....
I don't want MT to have a choice...
I want MT to sink or swim with Getto, Hudon and Scherbak
Maybe even convert Tinordi to a forward until he able to slow the game down so he can play on the blueline...maybe that is crazy....but like I said I am a winning gambler.
In other words I want to see something different done this season then the same old patch up jobs like PAP and Briere

 

[Kriss E]

There is no room in the NHL for DLR if he cannot reach a floor of offensive production, possibly ~20 points.

And that's mostly good for 4th liners, unless you can bring something else like a physical ability, think Prust.
Even if you score 40-50pts, teams will want you to be at least decent defensively.
One dimensional offensive guys that put up around 40pts aren't a whole lot valuable.
Just like elite defensive guys that put up around 15pts aren't either.

 

[DAChampion]

Re: rookies,

A well-managed team should bring in an average of no less than two rookies per year.

 

[Kriss E]

I didn't mean to have 4-5 rookies up front.
That would be amazing if that happen....then maybe we would have a dynasty
I was hoping to have 2 rookies.
I know you don't want me to compare Frolik with PAP and Briere . But the reality of Frolik making us a better regular season team....and more importantly a better playoff team seem a far stretch for me.
Just like having 4-5 rookies is crazy
Will Frolick help us to win a cup?
Remember who our coach is......
MT will play veterans over rookies if he has a choice....
I don't want MT to have a choice...
I want MT to sink or swim with Getto, Hudon and Scherbak
Maybe even convert Tinordi to a forward until he able to slow the game down so he can play on the blueline...maybe that is crazy....but like I said I am a winning gambler.
In other words I want to see something different done this season then the same old patch up jobs like PAP and Briere

You add a 40pt player if you sign Frolik. I don't really understand why you're having a hard time understanding how the EXACT same team + an extra 40pt player is better than without one.
I mean, it's as simple as Team A vs Team A+40pt player.
Now if he is too expensive, fine, then we agree. But if it's at a decently reasonable price. I see no objection.
And again, you want two rookies in, having Frolik doesn't prevent us from using them.
We had Galchenyuk and Gallagher as rookies to start the 2012-13 season on the 3rd line. We sign Frolik, we can have Scherbak and Hudon play with Eller.
We could even make Frolik play with Eller, give a spot to either rookie on the top 6 and keep the other on the Eller line.

If Therrien refuses to play those guys than that's an entirely different issue.

 

[DAChampion]

You add a 40pt player if you sign Frolik. I don't really understand why you're having a hard time understanding how the EXACT same team + an extra 40pt player is better than without one.
I mean, it's as simple as Team A vs Team A+40pt player.
Now if he is too expensive, fine, then we agree. But if it's at a decently reasonable price. I see no objection.
And again, you want two rookies in, having Frolik doesn't prevent us from using them.
We had Galchenyuk and Gallagher as rookies to start the 2012-13 season on the 3rd line. We sign Frolik, we can have Scherbak and Hudon play with Eller.
We could even make Frolik play with Eller, give a spot to either rookie on the top 6 and keep the other on the Eller line.

If Therrien refuses to play those guys than that's an entirely different issue.

It is not that simpe. You need to subtract the production of whoever losing ice time to Frolik.

Then, that person takes somebody else's ice time, repeat.

 

[Fazkovsky]

See? that's what I was talking about. In a cap era, you have to save on trying to play your young prospects. We can sign frolik at 4,5 right but he might not do well as expected and in a few years, he might be even a buyout option like Pap. While you can play guys like andrighetto, hudon or carr for under a 1m$.

Cap era is a tricky one but we should put more value in developping our own prospects. After all, Bergevin did mention that the solution is '' internal ''.

 

[Sniperr]

4x4 would probably be too good to be true, 4,5x5 is somewhat reasonable I think.

I'm scared just to think Beleskey and MSL are out there waiting, I don't think Bergy will want to sign MSL after the Briere/PaP failure but Beleskey....

 

[Kriss E]

It is not that simpe. You need to subtract the production of whoever losing ice time to Frolik.

Then, that person takes somebody else's ice time, repeat.

PAP is the one that completed the top 6 last season. He's been bought out. That's who he would replace.
Weise stepped into the top 6 too, but he'd still be part of the team.
It's depth, we need to add, not reduce.

See? that's what I was talking about. In a cap era, you have to save on trying to play your young prospects. We can sign frolik at 4,5 right but he might not do well as expected and in a few years, he might be even a buyout option like Pap. While you can play guys like andrighetto, hudon or carr for under a 1m$.

Cap era is a tricky one but we should put more value in developping our own prospects. After all, Bergevin did mention that the solution is '' internal ''.

You can say the same thing for every single player you bring in.

 

[OnTheRun]

See? that's what I was talking about. In a cap era, you have to save on trying to play your young prospects. We can sign frolik at 4,5 right but he might not do well as expected and in a few years, he might be even a buyout option like Pap. While you can play guys like andrighetto, hudon or carr for under a 1m$.

Cap era is a tricky one but we should put more value in developping our own prospects. After all, Bergevin did mention that the solution is '' internal ''.

It's starting to be late to bet on "internal" solutions to bail us out. We are already behind schedule with Galchenyuk (Who doesn't seems to be considered as a internal solution by the management anymore.).

Teams around us are getting better, some are starting to show up in the rearview mirror, they are not there yet. But they are improving faster than we are. We are on the clock.

 

[ECWHSWI]

It's starting to be late to bet on "internal" solutions to bail us out. We are already behind schedule with Galchenyuk (Who doesn't seems to be considered as a internal solution by the management anymore.).

Teams around us are getting better, some are starting to show up in the rearview mirror, they are not there yet. But they are improving faster than we are. We are on the clock.

cant look at it that way, a year ago Boston was seen as one of the top teams in the East, look at them today - just 1 year later, last season Buffalo was one of the worst teams overall, they upgraded their roster A LOT, and so other teams who moved, for some it was up for others it was down.

We are indeed on the clock though, but not because of other teams, we're on the clock because of the players we have, we know guys like Plekanec and Markov will not last another decade, and we know in just a few years when their contract is up, guys like Price and Patches will receive big raises thus (maybe) preventing us from having enough depth to be a contending team.

That's why we're on the clock, not because Buffalo acquired McGinn and ROR.

 

[bobhabs46]

4x4 would probably be too good to be true, 4,5x5 is somewhat reasonable I think.

I'm scared just to think Beleskey and MSL are out there waiting, I don't think Bergy will want to sign MSL after the Briere/PaP failure but Beleskey....

You can't compare Briere/PAP with MSL... MSL can still produce at a 50 points pace for minimum 1 season for sure.

 

[19VJ17]

You add a 40pt player if you sign Frolik. I don't really understand why you're having a hard time understanding how the EXACT same team + an extra 40pt player is better than without one.
I mean, it's as simple as Team A vs Team A+40pt player.
Now if he is too expensive, fine, then we agree. But if it's at a decently reasonable price. I see no objection.
And again, you want two rookies in, having Frolik doesn't prevent us from using them.
We had Galchenyuk and Gallagher as rookies to start the 2012-13 season on the 3rd line. We sign Frolik, we can have Scherbak and Hudon play with Eller.
We could even make Frolik play with Eller, give a spot to either rookie on the top 6 and keep the other on the Eller line.

If Therrien refuses to play those guys than that's an entirely different issue.

Exactly!!! "If Therrien refuses to play those guys than that's an entirely different issue"
That is the problem.
Every year MB goes and gets older vets for MT
MB keeps protecting MT with veterans that are not creative and make simple plays.
MT is happy because he wins.....
But it is up to MB to shake MT out of his safe player zone.
Having safe veteran players is good....but nothing very creative...NO?
MT wants to win by playing safe. But to win a cup you have to gamble at some point. The only gamble I can see is MB not allowing MT to have all these proven players.
By signing more players it allows MT to continue to play it safe. If MT really wants to win a cup he needs to allow his young players to be creative.
But if MB keeps signing these guys MT doesn't need to play the rookies(and we know he won't unless he has no choice). Sure they will call them up for 4-5 games and play on the 3-4th lines....this makes MT happy because it SAFE

If our young players were truly given a chance with MT, I really wouldn't have a problem with Frolik.
But the reality is our young guns need to play more then a few games here and there.
And yes signing guys like Frolick will prevent them from playing because of MT attitude "I want to win every game" (which is not a bad attitude to have when your young....but MT is getting older and that only means being MORE SAFE)
No gamble!!!
NO CUP

 

[Brainiac]

Re: rookies,

A well-managed team should bring in an average of no less than two rookies per year.

That's a pretty strict rule you've got there. What if you have a winning team and everyone is 35 or younger?

This board's obsession with youth is creepy at times.

 

[DAChampion]

That's a pretty strict rule you've got there. What if you have a winning team and everyone is 35 or younger?

This board's obsession with youth is creepy at times.

Not an obsession, just conservative math.

And there is no strictness at all. I said "average," which could mean 0, 0, 3, 4, 2, 3, 1, 4, 1

 

[void]

That's a pretty strict rule you've got there. What if you have a winning team and everyone is 35 or younger?

This board's obsession with youth is creepy at times.

Did you forget which forum you're posting on?

HF = Hockey's Future

 

[OnTheRun]

cant look at it that way, a year ago Boston was seen as one of the top teams in the East, look at them today - just 1 year later, last season Buffalo was one of the worst teams overall, they upgraded their roster A LOT, and so other teams who moved, for some it was up for others it was down.

We are indeed on the clock though, but not because of other teams, we're on the clock because of the players we have, we know guys like Plekanec and Markov will not last another decade, and we know in just a few years when their contract is up, guys like Price and Patches will receive big raises thus (maybe) preventing us from having enough depth to be a contending team.

That's why we're on the clock, not because Buffalo acquired McGinn and ROR.

I don't agree, Boston decline was coming, it was foreseen and has happened.

The change in powers in the East started 2 years ago with 3 teams on the rises and the powers in place reaching the end of their ropes.

At this pace some teams could leap frog us before Price's contract is over.

 

[Kriss E]

Exactly!!! "If Therrien refuses to play those guys than that's an entirely different issue"
That is the problem.
Every year MB goes and gets older vets for MT
MB keeps protecting MT with veterans that are not creative and make simple plays.
MT is happy because he wins.....
But it is up to MB to shake MT out of his safe player zone.
Having safe veteran players is good....but nothing very creative...NO?
MT wants to win by playing safe. But to win a cup you have to gamble at some point. The only gamble I can see is MB not allowing MT to have all these proven players.
By signing more players it allows MT to continue to play it safe. If MT really wants to win a cup he needs to allow his young players to be creative.
But if MB keeps signing these guys MT doesn't need to play the rookies(and we know he won't unless he has no choice). Sure they will call them up for 4-5 games and play on the 3-4th lines....this makes MT happy because it SAFE

If our young players were truly given a chance with MT, I really wouldn't have a problem with Frolik.
But the reality is our young guns need to play more then a few games here and there.
And yes signing guys like Frolick will prevent them from playing because of MT attitude "I want to win every game"
No gamble!!!
NO CUP

Yes, when you're putting Douglas Murray or Bouillon in the roster instead of Beaulieu. I get that.
But Frolik is not some terrible-mediocre player. He's a good depth player to add.
And as much as I dislike Therrien, he always ended up playing Briere on the 4th line, PAP was scratched, and so was Bouillon-Murray.
So ya, maybe it takes him way too long to figure it out sometimes, but he usually ends up by moving those vets down.
But again, Frolik has absolutely nothing to do with those guys. The problem was Therrien used those guys despite them sucking. Frolik doesn't suck.
So as I said, it's an entirely different issue.

Also, whatever rookie you bring in, they're not going to break the points and score 50-60pts as rookies. If they are that good, then signing Frolik isn't going to prevent them from showcasing their talent. Again, in 12-13, we had Gallagher-Galchenyuk as rookies. This year, if we sign Frolik, we still have room for 2 rookies.
So you can keep screaming that you want to give room to rookies, signing Frolik doesn't prevent that.
We need to improve our depth. Whether that's with Frolik or another signing/trade, it doesn't matter as long as we get at least a decent guy. That would already be an improvement over last season.

 

[DAChampion]

Kriss E

Frolik at 4 million for 4 years

Or

MSL for one year, then Hudon or McCarron.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't agree, Boston decline was coming, it was foreseen and has happened.

The change in powers in the East started 2 years ago with 3 teams on the rises and the powers in place reaching the end of their ropes.

At this pace some teams could leap frog us before Price's contract is over.

Boston was still a strong team the season before last. They could have easily knocked us out and gone to the ECF instead.
Yes, Chara looked tired, but they still had a good group.
Trading away Boychuk hurt them, and then their #1 center got injured half the year and their #1 Dman for 1/4. Can you imagine us with Plekanec and PK for 20 games? Not to mention trading away your #3 Dman before this...

This was a horrible season for them. They didn't have to blow up their team though.

 

[Zorba]

Kriss E

Frolik at 4 million for 4 years

Or

MSL for one year, then Hudon or McCarron.

Regardless of who the Habs have zero money for any UFAs. There will be a couple rookies battling for 2nd line duty

 

[Kriss E]

Kriss E

Frolik at 4 million for 4 years

Or

MSL for one year, then Hudon or McCarron.

I rather Frolik.
St-Louis is 40. Maybe he could be as good as Selanne and pull out 60+ pts as a 41yo, but I doubt it.
Selanne was part of the Ducks for years. St-Louis would be coming to a new team, with a new system, new management, new everything, in a city that would be all over him, a place might I add, that he never listed as a priority for him. So no, I think it would be a failed project. Not to mention, he'd be another small player, and given his age, to play in this grueling and tiring system, I believe it would be a recipe for disaster.
I would take Frolik at 4x4.

 

[19VJ17]

Yes, when you're putting Douglas Murray or Bouillon in the roster instead of Beaulieu. I get that.
But Frolik is not some terrible-mediocre player. He's a good depth player to add.
And as much as I dislike Therrien, he always ended up playing Briere on the 4th line, PAP was scratched, and so was Bouillon-Murray.
So ya, maybe it takes him way too long to figure it out sometimes, but he usually ends up by moving those vets down.
But again, Frolik has absolutely nothing to do with those guys. The problem was Therrien used those guys despite them sucking. Frolik doesn't suck.
So as I said, it's an entirely different issue.

Also, whatever rookie you bring in, they're not going to break the points and score 50-60pts as rookies. If they are that good, then signing Frolik isn't going to prevent them from showcasing their talent. Again, in 12-13, we had Gallagher-Galchenyuk as rookies. This year, if we sign Frolik, we still have room for 2 rookies.
So you can keep screaming that you want to give room to rookies, signing Frolik doesn't prevent that.
We need to improve our depth. Whether that's with Frolik or another signing/trade, it doesn't matter as long as we get at least a decent guy. That would already be an improvement over last season.

Sorry but adding another guy like Frolik is not going to help us now...or in the future.
I will give you a example...if MTL gets a power play and MT has a choice between Frolik and Getto....who do you think gets to play???

 

[OnTheRun]

Boston was still a strong team the season before last. They could have easily knocked us out and gone to the ECF instead.
Yes, Chara looked tired, but they still had a good group.
Trading away Boychuk hurt them, and then their #1 center got injured half the year and their #1 Dman for 1/4. Can you imagine us with Plekanec and PK for 20 games? Not to mention trading away your #3 Dman before this...

This was a horrible season for them. They didn't have to blow up their team though.

The beginning of the end was after their 117pts season. This is where cap reality hit them full force and how reckless management caused them to implode.

Giving away NMC/NTC like they were going out of fashion didn't help them to turn things around.

And yes they still had a good team pass that point, but their cup windows was closing. They could have opened a 2nd windows with their current core minus Chara, but as of now they didn't start on the right foot for that.