Prospect Info: Michael DiPietro (Mikey)

[Verviticus]

Maybe read the posts?

nah just gotta puke an opinion as soon as possible

 

[Verviticus]

So in discussing the value of drafting a goalie, you think it's meaningless to point out that a goalie drafted in the 3rd round played a huge role in the Penguins winning back to back Stanley Cups? Please explain why it's meaningless.

a single data point is garbage. it's worse than useless, it makes people like you say things about it as if it has meaning

it has value in exactly one case: as a counter example if i was stupid enough to say "there has never been a good goalie drafted in the third round"

gosh i'm so EXCITED for whatever terrible reason you will continue to care about matt murray. maybe it will be "i play the lottery"

 

[Siludin]

Just to be clear I'd rather not draft a goalie named Dipietro just reminds of Rick...

Shouldn't be tough to live up to

 

[Verviticus]

nick lidstrom was a third round pick. therefore we should ONLY draft swedish defencemen in the third. checkmate.

 

[VanJack]

Love this kid's attitude....basically told an NHL team to 'stuff it" when they said he was too small......I'm loving the Canucks goaltending depth with Demko and now DiPietro.....oozing character and battle level.

 

[Dreamboat]

Thrilled to bits by this pick, never hurts to have organizational depth at goalie, and Ive been high on him for a while.

 

[Zombotron]

I would rather we not draft any player with vowels in their name because a cabal of linguists kidnapped my dad and turned him into alphabet soup.

 

[Zombotron]

There. That's what you sound like you talk about Rick DiPietro as if he has any relevance to the draft stock or playing ability of Michael DiPietro.

 

[Dreamboat]

Quick question, do we have to sign him to an ELC, or can we offer him 67.5M over 15 years right now?

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Quick question, do we have to sign him to an ELC, or can we offer him 67.5M over 15 years right now?

I believe Bettman has already called Jim reminding him that he HAS to sign DiPietro to 67.5MX15y
It's the contract all DiPietros get.

Benning will probably just be stoked he can lock him up for such long term

 

[I am toxic]

DiPietro?

Goalie?

Just kidding. Size is overrated.

 

[Dreamboat]

I believe Bettman has already called Jim reminding him that he HAS to sign DiPietro to 67.5MX15y
It's the contract all DiPietros get.

Benning will probably just be stoked he can lock him up for such long term

Take solace in the fact that its 15 years at his age though!

he'll be 33 at contract end, just exiting his prime.

 

[fancouver]

You don't have to be a giant to be a successful NHL goalie. Pretty sure prime Hasek would be one of, if not the best goalie in the NHL right now. He's 6' tall.

There's so much more to being a goaltender than just taking up space. I'm glad the Canucks didn't pass on this kid because of his height.

Right, and that was like 20 years ago. The game has changed dude.

Height is definitely an advantage if you're mobile.

6'0 is short even for NHL standards. He'll have to have Sanford-like reflexes to compensate for.

 

[DanCloutiersFiveHole]

One thing that I found interesting about his numbers.

Windsor had - by a mile - the best penalty killing in the OHL. They were at 88.5 and the 2nd place team was at 84.2.

This was buoyed by (or influenced, depending on your perspective) DiPietro's save% on the PK, which was otherworldly - 0.927 and the second best goalie was at 0.896.

His 5v5 Save% of .917 is actually therefore a little more run-of-the-mill, and lower than, for example, Stephen Dhillon, who went undrafted.

Anyway, just thought it was interesting and would not mind hearing some perspectives from frequent watchers of the Spitfires with regards to their penalty-killing.

I wonder if the PK numbers have to do with all of the quick lateral movements goalies have to do on the PK. He's got a reputation for being an athletic goalie, maybe he's most comfortable when he's having to make saves using his quickness and athleticism

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Is Bobrovsky elite? He was not drafted. He has two Vezinas. Schneider was traded. Luongo was traded twice.

I already said there are a few guys who are the cream of the crop that are good every year, sure. My point though is that it is much harder to find an elite forward outside the draft than an elite goalie. You have to compare the two. It is like you guys are not reading what I am saying.

You guys keep making points about goalies in isolation. The point isn't about drafting a goalie it is about not using a draft pick on a skater. You need to expend draft choices on scorers because they are extremely important and almost impossible to find outside the draft. Goalies are also important, but much easier to find outside the draft. You see? Without comparing the two you are not engaging my argument.

Things like "you need 4 goalies in the pipeline" and "you should not draft a goalie in the 1st round, but after pick 50 it's okay." These are just truisms. There is no basis established for these kind of statements.

You seem to think because goalies move more frequently, you shouldn't draft them. And because they bloom late and they have a lot of movement, the pick (rights to the player for x time) is useless.

I think that it's not because you can still get value for the goalie later on. And in our specific case, we have been decent with developing goalies, whereas there are a bunch of teams that are horrible at it facilitating this merry-go-round of goalies.

I dunno. I just think there's more variables than what you have outlined and the pick is good as a third rounder. (That said, I do agree with your general idea for picks 5-62)

 

[Zanon]

Right, and that was like 20 years ago. The game has changed dude.

Height is definitely an advantage if you're mobile.

6'0 is short even for NHL standards. He'll have to have Sanford-like reflexes to compensate for.

The game has changed, sure, but the net size has remained same. This guy won the Hart and Vezina in 2002 and he's smaller.

 

[me2]

The game has changed, sure, but the net size has remained same. This guy won the Hart and Vezina in 2002 and he's smaller.

Flanked by .909 and .908 seasons. He had a great year though.

Ahh those were great years when guys like Irbe could get jobs.

 

[fancouver]

The game has changed, sure, but the net size has remained same. This guy won the Hart and Vezina in 2002 and he's smaller.

That was 2002.

2017 - 6'2 Bobrovsky
2016 - 6'2 Holtby
2015 - 6'3 Price
2014 - 6'3 Rask
2013 - 6'2 Bobrovsky
2012 - 6'1 Lundqvist
2011 - 5'11 Thomas
2010 - 6'2 Miller
2009 - 5'11 Thomas
2008 - 6'2 Brodeur
2007 - 6'2 Brodeur
2006 - 6'1 Kiprisoff
2005 - 6'2 Brodeur
2004 - 6'2 Brodeur

 

[DanCloutiersFiveHole]

That was 2002.

2017 - 6'2 Bobrovsky
2016 - 6'2 Holtby
2015 - 6'3 Price
2014 - 6'3 Rask
2013 - 6'2 Bobrovsky
2012 - 6'1 Lundqvist
2011 - 5'11 Thomas
2010 - 6'2 Miller
2009 - 5'11 Thomas
2008 - 6'2 Brodeur
2007 - 6'2 Brodeur
2006 - 6'1 Kiprisoff
2005 - 6'2 Brodeur
2004 - 6'2 Brodeur

None of those guys are exceptionally tall

 

[biturbo19]

Thing is that there is a huge bias towards (pun intended) towards taller goalies right now, but that is more of a factor of the copycat nature of the league. We get a couple of tall guys who are actually very mobile and excellent skaters and suddenly GM's just want to draft tall guys.

Ironically, if the league would actually open up instead of being stuck in a defensive mindset (that is largely brought on by coaches trying to keep their jobs IMO) then the taller goalie would be at a disadvantage. The collapsing defences and huge amount of shot-blocking favours guys who can block.

IMO we will get some sort of bounceback as we are at the extreme end of the 'size' trend towards more a more rounded set of criteria. Like I said, with this pick we are early adopters going against the trend a little. But there's nothing to say that a smaller goalie can't thrive in the NHL other than the pre-existing bias towards tall guys, many of whom are not actually that good.

There's a lot of truth to this, and it's kind of sad really.

But at the same time, this is what coaches are conditioned into and it's hard to see them breaking from that right now. It's sort of a twist on the old adage, "show me a good coach, and i'll show you a good goalie - show me a bad goalie and i'll show you an unemployed coach".

With the way average SV% has climbed, it's a security blanket for coaches to clamp things down in defensive systems that insulate less talented and less mobile (more ho-hum "sizey consistent predictable shot blocker") goaltenders. It makes their job a lot less dependent on that old adage of a specific goaltenders' peaks/valleys being their meal ticket. It puts the thing more within their control, and coaches LOVE control (or at least the feeling of control). ie. Most Head Coaches don't really have a clue how to manage or "coach" goaltenders. What they can feel in some control of, is skaters buy-in and execution of a defensive system.


Lindy Ruff is a prime example of a coach who has had a lot of live by the goaltender/die by the goaltender in his career. He opens things up, and when he's had the athletic backstopper in a good year...he looks brilliant, coach of the year, rah rah exciting hockey. Hasek, Miller in his peak, Lehtonen in a good year, etc. He's also had declining Miller, some other filler on the way out in BUF, Lehtonen on an off year, etc. where, like last year...goaltending wasn't nearly good enough to backstop an offensive team that doesn't play a safe concerted defensive game. Exit Ruff, Enter Ken Hitchcock...the epitome of what you're describing there in the "play it safe" coaches of the contemporary era.

Same goes for that anomalous year where the extremely athletic Varlamov covered over a ton o' flaws in the coaching and team composition of that Avs team to lead them to the playoffs against all odds.

Or the way Detroit have pretty much tossed Mrazek to the curb after some up years, because he's another one of these smaller, comparatively hyperactive higher risk/reward goaltenders who don't fully jive with the idea of a consistently even keel on the good ship coaching employment, and had a down year.


If a coach can system their way to relatively safe "average" goaltending in that .915 range...most of them are going to try to take that to the bank. Over the idea of gambling on whether they might get .920 exceptional play out of the rare athletic stud goalie having a career year, or they might get .905 or something that gets them fired.


It's sad, and i really miss the good ol' days of uniquely talented goaltenders ruling the league. But it's all part of the whole "problem with scoring" in the league at large. Margins are too thin. In part, maybe it's goaltender size+equipment size...but it's intrinsically linked with the rigid systems play and execution thereof that is dominating the league now. Sadly, the continually growing "analytics movement" with respect to skaters seems likely to only further reinforce this trend. It seems inherently focused around the idea of devaluing goaltending, relative to shot generation/shot suppression qualities in a player and system.



I don't mind the Dipietro pick at all though. He's the kind of guy i really want to root for. When he's on, he's tons of fun to watch. He's a smart and entertaining guy on and off the ice, and he has an attitude that's hard to dislike. He's going to continually be challenged at his size though, as he moves up levels. We needed another goaltender of quality somewhere in the pipeline so badly, and DiPietro is a pretty good prospect with a lot of high end pedigree to his credit already.

 

[F A N]

You guys keep making points about goalies in isolation. The point isn't about drafting a goalie it is about not using a draft pick on a skater. You need to expend draft choices on scorers because they are extremely important and almost impossible to find outside the draft. Goalies are also important, but much easier to find outside the draft. You see? Without comparing the two you are not engaging my argument.

The problem with your argument is that you're thinking elite forwards but you aren't thinking elite goalies. You think elite forwards are harder to find outside of the draft because you're thinking of guys like Crosby. But when you talk about goalies being easier to find outside of the draft, you aren't talking about an elite goalie.

First of all, there are great undrafted players at every position. Martin St. Louis and Dan Boyle were undrafted.

Second of all, in terms of trade, your example of Bobrovsky is a bad one because he was traded because he wasn't willing to re-sign. Luongo being traded the first time was just a stupid move by a GM who thought they needed to upgrade in goal by selecting Dipietro. Schneider netted a top 10 pick in a deep draft and that was before he established himself as a top #1 goalie no questions asked. Of course there are other examples of goalies being traded but don't confuse bad trades or the fact a team had an elite level incumbent as an example of availability. This can happen with other positions. Pronger, Shanahan, Jovanovski, Bure, Seth Jones, Ryan Johanson, Drouin, Iginla, Selanne. The list goes on and on in terms of elite forwards traded in their prime.

And then there's free agency. Like I asked, name the last elite level goalie available as a UFA. And by available it could include guys that "explored free agency" but ended up re-signing with their team. Ryan Miller is one of the best UFA goalies available this season. 3 years ago he was the best. 3 years ago the best forward was Paul Stastny, who at that time was a 60 point 1C. Meanwhile, last season teams got a chance to talk to Stamkos before he signed with Tampa and a guy like 28 year old first line winger Okposo changed teams via free agency.

The idea that you can easily get say a top 15 goalie via an avenue outside of the trade is wrong.

 

[mathonwy]

 

[Balls Mahoney]

He beat the ever loving Be-Jesus out of a dumb Swedish goaltender and then gave up a bunch of laughers?

I love Cloutier, one of my favorite players of all time... but is that a good thing to be compared to him?

 

[mathonwy]

 

[Breakers]

Solid start to the season.
1.64 GAA
0.949 SV%
9 GP

They were outshot 40-11 tonight

Best Goalie in the entire CHL
Great Value in this pick.