Messi vs. Ronaldo

[Blueblood9]

Lionel Messi Vs Ecuador (Away) 11/10/2017 HD 720p By NugoBasilaia

Balls. Big massive balls. And they just won a league after lots of big balls. You guys just need to pay attention tbh.

Ya make sure you read the whole post especially where i say i know Messis done it but Ronaldo does it more often.

My point is its not Messis 1st instinct when it is ronaldos

 

[Live in the Now]

Ya make sure you read the whole post especially where i say i know Messis done it but Ronaldo does it more often.

My point is its not Messis 1st instinct when it is ronaldos

They've done it around the same.

Messi slightly more.

Messi is also younger and will have more opportunity to continue doing it.

 

[Blueblood9]

They've done it around the same.

Messi slightly more.

Messi is also younger and will have more opportunity to continue doing it.

Like i said i am biased and dont hide it. Just feel that he gets a bad rap sometimes when it is not warranted.

 

[KJS14]

What I find strange about the argument generally is that Ronaldo fans are also generally much more vocal about it than Messi fans. Even before you factor in their form at the time.

That's because even though Ronaldo is a true alpha, all of his fans seem to be betas that need to bring it up every time he does something semi-impressive.

 

[Evilo]

"

BTW didnt Messi quit the Argentinian National team once in his career? Say what you will about CR7 (yes i am biased) but not once has Ronaldo EVER quit on any of his teams.

So what you're saying is that Ronaldo leads Messi 18 to 13 in tournaments. In how many games though?
And yes, scoring on Andorra is not a great stat, sorry.

 

[Evilo]

I take what he says with a grain of salt since hes still crying about the finals 2 yrs ago. I do agree that Portugal won using an ugly game but being Portuguese all i can say is "I dont care how ugly it was cause i have a trophy and you dont"

I don't get this. I mad emy feelings towards Ronaldo known WAY before 2016. No idea what that has to do with anything. Especially since Ronaldo never played a role in Portugal "beating" France in the final. Gignac's choke job, period.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

That's because even though Ronaldo is a true alpha, all of his fans seem to be betas that need to bring it up every time he does something semi-impressive.

@Evilo liked this post, yet he feels the need to trash CR7 all the time. Quite ironic.

 

[Evilo]

@Evilo liked this post, yet he feels the need to trash CR7 all the time. Quite ironic.

You know that's just crap.
I have always said Ronaldo is the second best player in the world. Never even once said the contrary.
If you think that's trashing CR7, then maybe your standards are weird.

 

[The Moose]

Maradona's legacy is one fantastic tournament and his Napoli stint (in which he never won the EC/CL btw).

His peak, his career is absolutely dwarfed by Messi and Cristiano. He never separated himself from his peers on such a level for so long.
And while he was busy failing at Barcelona, Platini was dominating at Juve - and still people are so seduced by that one 1986 tournament that they completely ignore that on the whole, Maradona's (club) career left so much to be desired. Not just in comparison to Messi and Ronaldo, but other players like Platini, Cruyff, etc.

And please don't give me that "short memory" mumbo jumbo, I've played, watched and studied much more football than I should've.

You are right that Maradona's peak is dwarfed by Messi and CR. However the World Cup holds much more sway and prestige in our emotional attachment to soccer than club success, and that's why Maradona is where he is. His performance at key moments of crucial games is what keeps him in our collective memory. Even for players like Platini that enjoyed more club success than Maradona, what I remember him is not for how he played for Juventus, but for the heartbreak of '82 and the triumph of '84.

While there is no doubt in my mind that when it comes to individual talent Messi is a much better player than Maradona ever was, many hold Maradona and Kempes to a higher esteem for delivering the supreme soccer high of national success.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

You know that's just crap.
I have always said Ronaldo is the second best player in the world. Never even once said the contrary.
If you think that's trashing CR7, then maybe your standards are weird.

You have made your dislike of CR7 pretty clear through the years and that's fine. What I find ironic is that the most vocal people in this debate on HF are usually Messi supporters needing to defend their boy when someone pimps Ronaldo.

I mean, f***, I agree that Messi is the best of the two, but crying about Ronaldo fans when there are way more Messi fans here is kind of funny.

 

[Evilo]

There aren't more Messi fans in WC periods. And I don't see Messi fans trolling every Portugal thread. The other way however......

And yes I don't like CR7 personnality by any stretch of the imagination. He's an dumbass clown. But I've made it clear many times he's second best player in the world and I've never denied that.

 

[KJS14]

You have made your dislike of CR7 pretty clear through the years and that's fine. What I find ironic is that the most vocal people in this debate on HF are usually Messi supporters needing to defend their boy when someone pimps Ronaldo.

I mean, ****, I agree that Messi is the best of the two, but crying about Ronaldo fans when there are way more Messi fans here is kind of funny.

A lot of us aren't Messi fans. We're just people that can objectively rate players. There's 3 types of people in this debate: Ronaldo fans, Messi fans, and neutrals that simply know Messi is better.

And the only time us Messi "defenders" are vocal about it here is when a silly Ronaldo fan brings the topic up. Ronaldo is one of the best of all time, but he's not better than Messi.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

There aren't more Messi fans in WC periods. And I don't see Messi fans trolling every Portugal thread. The other way however......

And yes I don't like CR7 personnality by any stretch of the imagination. He's an dumbass clown. But I've made it clear many times he's second best player in the world and I've never denied that.

WC season is bizarro world, I'll gladly give you that

 

[The Moose]

I didn't vote, I like them both, for different reasons.As someone else said, it is amazing to see two players like them in the same generation. If I really had to choose, I guess I like Messi a little bit more as he is a throwback to a time of more freewheeling soccer, with supreme technical ability and great artistic value.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Ill concede that but in this tournament if Portugal makes it out of the group it will be solely on Ronaldos shoulders but people will still find an issue with him. Yes most of his goals are off set pieces and on was misplayed but you no what he still has 4 where Messi is putting up goose eggs. I like Messi i do but Ronaldo gets a bad rap for no reason sometimes.

You dont like his attitude? So what

His team won an international Tourny while he didnt contribute that much. For years ive been hearing that Portugal is Avg plus Ronaldo. So without him France should have won 3-0 oh but wait no the portuguese team shut them down. Pick an argument and stick with it instead of changing the narrative to fit what you want it to.

You’re correct about this WC. However Portugal should not rely on Ronaldo to advance. They have a top 8 team on paper in this competition. They’re strong at every position except CBs.

 

[Luigi Habs]

A lot of us aren't Messi fans. We're just people that can objectively rate players. There's 3 types of people in this debate: Ronaldo fans, Messi fans, and neutrals that simply know Messi is better.

And the only time us Messi "defenders" are vocal about it here is when a silly Ronaldo fan brings the topic up. Ronaldo is one of the best of all time, but he's not better than Messi.

I feel ‘Messi fans’ need defintion.

I became a ‘Messi fan’ even though I hated Barcelona with passion in the 90s, and have no emotional connection to him whatsoever, but became a fan due to his magnificent display of talent and because he doesn’t act like a clown on the field.

Most of Ronaldo fans are either Portuguese or RM fans.

 

[Evilo]

I don't think anyone can mistake me for a Barca fan.
I don't have the mindset of a fan anyway. But I admire Messi's football genius.

 

[Stray Wasp]

I don't think anyone can mistake me for a Barca fan.

If people can convince themselves that Ronaldo inspired Portugal to win the Euro 2016 final while not being on the field, they could probably convince themselves that you're a season ticket holder for Marseille.

 

[Ceremony]

Should put C.Ronaldo in the thread title because Ronaldo de Lima is better than both.

@Live in the Now this counts btw

 

[member 51464]

Can someone give some perspective to the non-football follower here?

At what age do players of this caliber and these positions begin to slow down? How many more elite seasons can be expected? Are both likely to still be around and be high end players at the next World Cup? I recall hearing Ronaldo tied a record for number of different World Cups scored in, so I'd guess he might be running out of track pretty soon.

 

[cgf]

Can someone give some perspective to the non-football follower here?

At what age do players of this caliber and these positions begin to slow down? How many more elite seasons can be expected? Are both likely to still be around and be high end players at the next World Cup? I recall hearing Ronaldo tied a record for number of different World Cups scored in, so I'd guess he might be running out of track pretty soon.

Ronaldo has already been slowing down for a while, which has seen his usage shifting more & more into the out & out striker that he is nowadays. But he's a ridiculous athlete, and his nose for goal will serve him well long after his body fails him completely. So it's really tough to say how much longer he'll be able to keep producing great #s.

A lot of that depends on what happens with his career from here...because he'll continue to become more & more dependent on his team-mates for service...i.e. does he stay with Real for another 3+ years, or does he want to do something like come to the MLS while he's still a superstar?

 

[sr edler]

Can Messi score headers? No.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Would Ronaldo get less hate if he never went to RM and stayed with MUFC?

 

[IamNotADancer]

A lot of us aren't Messi fans. We're just people that can objectively rate players. There's 3 types of people in this debate: Ronaldo fans, Messi fans, and neutrals that simply know Messi is better.

And the only time us Messi "defenders" are vocal about it here is when a silly Ronaldo fan brings the topic up. Ronaldo is one of the best of all time, but he's not better than Messi.

Of course there is absolutely no room for a fourth option, namely that people aren't "fans/fan boys" of either and don't care one way or another and do find Ronaldo much more effective in certain aspects while seeing Messi a bit too deified by those who claim he is the "best ever".

People mention his hockey IQ yet for all the brilliant passes he does I do see an element of ball hogging in which he could've made a much smarter decision from the on set, which would have opened up the game play much better rather than running into walls of defenders that surround him.

Fans of either or need to stop being so sensitive about either player and accept that just because somebody has a differing opinion about their favorite player doesn't mean they are a "hater" or "fan boy".

It becomes silly when you can't even discuss specific situations in which player A clearly made a dumb decision yet you are being attacked for being "clueless" or a "hater".

For as much flak as we "noobs" get on here for not spending every living hour in the soccer section of a HOCKEY board, it does appear that civil discussion about certain topics is simply not welcome if you go against the consensus.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Can someone give some perspective to the non-football follower here?

At what age do players of this caliber and these positions begin to slow down? How many more elite seasons can be expected? Are both likely to still be around and be high end players at the next World Cup? I recall hearing Ronaldo tied a record for number of different World Cups scored in, so I'd guess he might be running out of track pretty soon.

Although I agree with cgf's answer, I'd like to expand upon it.

Historically, once a player reaches 29 or 30 the expectation is their careers will trend downwards. So we've reached the stage where we should treasure every last moment of Messi and Ronaldo, because either or both of them could go off like a stale cheese at any moment. But the sport has changed so much uncertainties reign. On the one hand, sports science has never been more sophisticated. On the other, top players have never before been asked to play so many games- and there's a mental effort as well as a physical one required to retain the motivation to stay on the treadmill.

And as cgf has hinted at, however highly we rate Messi and Ronaldo, even they are still mere individuals in a team game. Ironically, while we might expect a player to be at their peak between the ages of roughly 24 to 29, Messi and Ronaldo are united in having won more team honours either earlier or later than that. Having been magnificent in 2010-11, Barcelona failed successfully to evolve their team from 2011 to 2014, so Messi found more and more was being asked of him to the point that by the 2014 World Cup, he appeared jaded.

For Ronaldo, meanwhile, 2009-2013 was close to a lost era in terms of big team prizes. Again, the team around him wasn't right. So even if we rank him as the Greatest Great of All the Great Greats, that's an awfully long chunk of time where we have to say, 'Well, you know, one chap can't carry ten people on his own'. The last five years may have been the most successful of his career, but I defy anyone to persuade me that's because he's played the best football of his life. It's been because at club level, football has chosen to ape France circa 1675, with the few having a jolly old time strangling the life out of the many. In this environment Real Madrid, as the footballing PR-wing of Spanish centralism, enjoy a practically consequence-free bottomless pit of money that allows them to build a squad of remarkable strength. (Barcelona, being the footballing PR-wing of Catalonia, also enjoy economic support that goes beyond what normal football clubs expect. The point is that for clubs from everywhere else in Europe- Real Madrid is pretty much beyond being a football club anymore).

I referred to Madrid's squad, mark you. Successive European Cup finals in which Gareth Bale starts on the bench says it all. Ronaldo is a footballer who belongs in the all-time pantheon who has reached an age where he benefits from playing football less. Note that in these last five years, he has played 50 club games in a season once - ironically that was a season in which Madrid failed to win La Liga, the Copa del Rey, or the European Cup despite Ronaldo scoring more goals than before or since.

And even then, such are the demands on players that that magnificent physique of Ronaldo's gave up on him on one of the most important occasions of his life - the 2016 Euro final. (Admittedly, if we're to believe some of the posters around here he defeated the French by assaulting them with his All-Time Great Brain Waves to the extent that they turned to jelly when a bloke who used to play for Swansea bore down on their goal. Who knows, maybe in time we'll discover that North Korea's new-found engagement was borne out of Ronaldo willing world peace).

In those same five years, Messi has surpassed 50 games three times. Barcelona has dominated La Liga in that stretch, while Madrid- asking Ronaldo to do less in the league, has made the European Cup nigh-on its own.
Given those stats, I think its worth asking whether Barcelona- who during those five years have lacked a top-class coach- haven't handled Messi as smartly as they might. Nor has playing the World Cup in 2014, then Copa America in 2015 and 2016 left him with a lot of breathing space. (It bears consideration that once upon a time the Copa America was biennial, only to become a four-yearly event with the specific aim of relieving star players overburdened by a crowded calendar).

In short, I'd be amazed if either player played in 2022, let alone dazzled. But depending on events over the next four years one or both might usefully be accommodated in a team that employed them thoughtfully. Whatever reservations I might have about Zidane as a coach, we're indebted to him for his smart deployment of Ronaldo. Whether Messi will be as sensitively used in the future is a moot point. But so far, the portents aren't good.