bobc222
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- Mar 10, 2017
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By did very little do you mean break up 4-5 high danger chances a night? Oh sorry, I forgot, you prefer defenders that get beat in Game 7 during a routine one on one with good body position.
Dreger: Members of Leafs management attended the Canes/Flames game last night. Scouting defense
- Thread starter Kamiccolo
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Jerkob Slavin
Likable Jerk
He has played on our top pair for the past couple of seasons, and has thrived doing so. So yes.... Brett Pesce is a top pairing guy.
He would easily be a top pair guy on Toronto too and would thrive next to Reilly.
bleedgreen
Registered User
Pesce hasn't done much in the NHL yet? 
That's fascinating. If he had done what he's done so far for the Leafs instead of the Canes he would be considered a warrior poet worthy of legend.
All this hand wringing and arguing over value. Looking forward to the deadline just so many of these conversations have answers or at least a delay till the offseason. I expect one of the big three RD of the Canes to be gone, and possibly TVR as well. If not then you'd presume the offers weren't good enough and they'll wait for the draft as there's no point making moves that dont make the team better moving forward. I don't see a future package landing Pesce or Hamilton, its been said by many sources the Canes are considering moving one of the three for scoring help now. Canes fans amend that to Faulk maybe being available for futures but that's just us assuming because he probably has less value that's the way it may go. All the sources have actually said all three so it's possible even Faulk cant be had for futures. TVR I'm sure could.
It was originally us wanting Nylander with Leaf fans wanting Pesce. Then it was Leaf fans wanting Pesce or Hamilton and Kapanen was a begrudging maybe even, now it's Johnsson. You can't blame Canes fans for rolling their eyes at you. All three of our guys are humming along now as Hamilton and Pesce have both found their stride after questionable lineup choices made them both have to make adjustments early on. Getting less and less in return is nonsense.
That's fascinating. If he had done what he's done so far for the Leafs instead of the Canes he would be considered a warrior poet worthy of legend.
All this hand wringing and arguing over value. Looking forward to the deadline just so many of these conversations have answers or at least a delay till the offseason. I expect one of the big three RD of the Canes to be gone, and possibly TVR as well. If not then you'd presume the offers weren't good enough and they'll wait for the draft as there's no point making moves that dont make the team better moving forward. I don't see a future package landing Pesce or Hamilton, its been said by many sources the Canes are considering moving one of the three for scoring help now. Canes fans amend that to Faulk maybe being available for futures but that's just us assuming because he probably has less value that's the way it may go. All the sources have actually said all three so it's possible even Faulk cant be had for futures. TVR I'm sure could.
It was originally us wanting Nylander with Leaf fans wanting Pesce. Then it was Leaf fans wanting Pesce or Hamilton and Kapanen was a begrudging maybe even, now it's Johnsson. You can't blame Canes fans for rolling their eyes at you. All three of our guys are humming along now as Hamilton and Pesce have both found their stride after questionable lineup choices made them both have to make adjustments early on. Getting less and less in return is nonsense.
spockBokk
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- Sep 8, 2013
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Thanks for the heartfelt concern. If Pesce is dealt, I’m sure the return will be quite nice and help both teams.
Liferleafer
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- Feb 9, 2011
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Because rarely does a deadline deal look like quality for quality....it's normally a quantity package. That said, i highly doubt the Canes move Pesce, or Hamilton.
This thread is a mess.
Brett Pesce is awesome and would fit this Leafs team like a glove. It's been a bit of an up & down year for him this year, but otherwise, he is an incredibly effective defensive minded player.
That said, Johnsson + Kapanen for Pesce has no chance of happening. That's absurd.
Brett Pesce is awesome and would fit this Leafs team like a glove. It's been a bit of an up & down year for him this year, but otherwise, he is an incredibly effective defensive minded player.
That said, Johnsson + Kapanen for Pesce has no chance of happening. That's absurd.
If Kapanen does get traded this season (doubt it), Leafs fans are going to be very dissapointed in the return LOL
If good, young players were available for the prices fans and probably GMs alike were willing to pay, we'd see these type of trades more often than we do.
- May 3, 2016
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I think he means to the Leafs. But Pesce isn't coming to the Leafs unless its some crazy 3 way deal.
Still say the Canes keep Pesce, use futures in a monster deal to get a guy like Point
2019 1st+Svech+Bean or Pesce+Svech+1st for Rant
"Nothing much" other than shut down opposition's top lines for 3 years.
Packages aren't appealing. At all.
Deadline deals also rarely involve guys that are under contract for another five seasons.
I think if Waddell only gets offer that are futures he’ll just keep Pesce. So far (with the exception of the skinner trade) he’s only made ‘hockey deals’. Lindholm/Hanifin for Hamilton/Ferland, Kruger for Martinook, Rask for Nino.
I think you’re right though, there’s a very slim chance a RHD not named Faulk is traded during the season, making this whole conversation pretty pointless, haha
- May 3, 2016
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even though its not appealing Kap+Johansson+1st is an over payment.
anyhow if my Gudas offer falls through we can move forward on the TVR offer lol
Jerkob Slavin
Likable Jerk
Vehemently disagree. There is ZERO REASON to trade him unless we easily win the trade.... in other, more easy to understand terms, it will be incumbent on the team trading for him to make the Canes an offer they cannot refuse. Therefore, it is pretty easy to see that we will win the trade.
He's young, he's valuable, and he's on an amazing team-friendly deal. You want him, it is going to hurt. Otherwise, we have no reason to deal (certainly not to make a competitor a Cup contender).
If you want to keep all of your forwards together for the Cup run, I completely understand. You'll just need to set your sights a little lower... like TVR or Faulk. Those are the only guys the Canes might move for futures. The others are untouchable unless a scoring top-6 forward comes back.
"You have to give to get."
I think the opposite. Carolina and Toronto make good trade partners. Just because HF posters can't agree, doesn't mean anything.
Carolina needs two things.
- An upgrade down the middle to play between Aho and Staal in the lineup
- Finishers.
Kapanen is a finisher. Carolina generates a ton of shots and chances, but none of their forwards are able to effectively finish those chances. Kapanen could score a boatload of goals playing with Aho and Nino.
Kapanen makes sense for Carolina, and while TOR would much rather keep Kapanen, he is a candidate to be a piece used to get a puzzle piece for our defense. So you have Kapanen and then you have Hamilton/Pesce/Faulk.
Canes fans would probably rather move Faulk, while Leaf fans would probably rather acquire Hamilton, while Pesce is in the middle. Luckily, it's up to the two management teams to see if they can narrow it down to one of those d-men and figure out what else needs to be added from either side.
Part of it, is Kapanen is hard for fans to value. He's having an excellent season, but this is his first year on the scene. So TOR is looking at the promise/potential and not wanting to move him, while CAR is thinking he's still a bit of an unproven player still.
CheMxDawG
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- Jan 26, 2017
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"Kapanen is elite" -Leafs posters
"He's good but let's not get ahead of ourselves" -HFboards
"How dare you" -Leafs posters
Kamiccolo
Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
After reading this thread I can't wait for a trade to go down because it is going to be a lot of fun for an afternoon reading the reactions. This thread reminds me of the JVR - Schenn deals from back in the day. Not in comparing players, but just the fanbase arguments about it for over a year before a deal goes through.
Liferleafer
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I agree....with both bolded.
CheMxDawG
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We definitely need the Finnish line and his dad played here so that sweetens the story. I'm more inclined to see a deal worked out in the summer if we don't fall out of the playoff hunt. I like a basis of Kapanen and Pesce but I'm not sure which GM, if either, would be willing to make that happen.
Nizdizzle
Offseason Is The Worst Season
Actually, many posters told leaf fans he was at best an AHL player, that it was ridiculous that he was even near a top-50 prospects list...etc etc. You might say "yeah but not MOST posters", and I would say not most posters tried to claim Kapanen was elite.
You, like many others, use the worst of the Leaf fans and the most reasonable of everyone else in your example. You only see what you want to see (bad Leaf fans).
You have that mixed up. Reading these threads, Leafs fans would rather acquire Pesce and Hamilton is in the middle.
One theme I see repeated in these threads is how much people underestimate Pesce's value to Carolina itself. His contract is just as important to the Canes as it would be to Toronto. He's the one guy fans want to keep the most.
There isn't significant pushback on these proposals because we're overrating him; it's because we value him as part of Carolina's future in a way that others can't or choose not to grasp.
The "fairly mediocre" Brett Pesce would easily be your #2D, and in the way his two-way play and defensive acumen would perfectly complement Rielly allowing him to excel...Pesce could easily be the MVP of the Leafs blueline.
The price is reflective of that reality.
Roboturner913
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spockBokk
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- Sep 8, 2013
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Kapanen + as a base for either Pesce or Hamilton makes a ton of sense. Fits what CAR is looking for and a needs and definitely a fit for TOR. I'd think objectively (I know, I know Canes fan) that it could be surmised that based on career paths, usage, position (RD vs RW) and contract status, that Pesce or Hamilton hold more value than Kapanen. The + on the TOR end I think would need to be significant. Dubas may not hold that same notion on valuation and probably has opinions like you've nicely laid out above. So he won't like adding Kapanen, let alone an additional significant asset, to any offer for Pesce or Hamilton.
So like many, many TOR and CAR fans have said, a hockey trade will not get done, but futures for Faulk or TVR will be the trade, if there's one to be had.
Can we all play nice now?
Liferleafer
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- Feb 9, 2011
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And Toronto won't pay that price....nor should they, they don't meed to take a homerun swing. Trading for Muzzin (even at the LA fans price of 1st+liljegren) is a better move than trading multiple pieces including top 6 forwards for Pesce. Or target Gudas....or Zadorov...or Tanev...or Edler....
TO's fans want to pay rental prices and Car is looking for a hockey trade, I doubt a trade happens unless Dubas stops taking all the players off the table.
Fogelhund
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- Sep 15, 2007
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I don't disagree at all, about the type of player that Pesce is. That he would be the 5th best, 4th best, 2nd best, or best D on the Leafs, doesn't change his value in the least.
It's like saying, Kapanen has 30 points, He'd be your 3rd best scoring forward this season. The price is reflective of that reality.
Sounds kind of nonsensical, when flipped around, doesn't it?
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Dreger may not have any Leafs sources since his cousin-with-benefits was pink slipped, but he's certainly still an excellent puppeteer.
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