Confirmed with Link: #MelnykOut Campaign - successfully raised 8K over this past weekend.

[Sensung]

Also, people MUST understand that the arena and the team are separate businesses. HOWEVER, the CBA accounts for whether or not an NHL team is the owner of the arena, primary occupant, second or even tertiary occupant, or paid to manage the building on behalf of arena ownership. There is no hiding of money. It is accounted for.

And none of that info is given to the public.

Melnyk and his supporters claim losses based on the team only and use it to justify running the team on a budget.

The best estimate we have is Forbes and that paints a much different picture than Eugene has been feeding the public.

 

[Deku]

You can't fill the stands but want the owner to fill the cap. You don't like comparisons because x,y,z, but that is all just noise. You either can support a team or you can't.

Haven't we been having these Melnyk budget discussions for the past 6-7 years? But attendance hasn't been a problem until the last 2 years. Even when we did fill the arena he didn't spend to the cap.

 

[Sensung]

A downtown arena will hopefully remove a major excuse from the fanbase repertoire and thus lead to more fan support, more revenue, and a bigger budget.

More revenue = Bigger budget?

Well in spite of a few empty seats, Eugene made a KILLING on last year's playoff run.

He also got a bonus 16M in expansion fees.

Our team was (as your hero Eugene reminded fans) one goal from the cup final last year. He promised the budget was only temporary and he'd spend when the team was competitive again, right?

So this year's team is running at the cap and Eugene is using last season's bounty to buy out bad contracts and give us the competitive edge, right?

In short, you are the perfect spokesperson for Melnyk. (I'm just trying to figure out which one of you two wins the "most full of shit award". )

 

[slamigo]

And none of that info is given to the public.

Melnyk and his supporters claim losses based on the team only and use it to justify running the team on a budget.

The best estimate we have is Forbes and that paints a much different picture than Eugene has been feeding the public.

Again, as others have already mentioned, what exactly is this grand conspiracy? What is this 15 year long con that Melnyk is running? I fail to see the logic in your accusations. Melnyk isn't crying poor. He has loads of money. The Senators franchise has trouble operating in the black. There are a ton of reasons why this is so. Small market being a big one. Some have mentioned the fact that this is a Govt town, Phoenix issues, arena location, etc. The exchange rate and attendance have a direct impact on the financial success of the team. If the Senators were selling out every home game, the team would be in a very different position.
There is a veritable mountain of evidence of actual tangible evidence that explains the situation. But some folks choose to ignore that and instead ascribe bizarre motives to the owner of the team. It's baffling.

 

[Sensung]

Again, as others have already mentioned, what exactly is this grand conspiracy? What is this 15 year long con that Melnyk is running? I fail to see the logic in your accusations. Melnyk isn't crying poor. He has loads of money. The Senators franchise has trouble operating in the black. There are a ton of reasons why this is so. Small market being a big one. Some have mentioned the fact that this is a Govt town, Phoenix issues, arena location, etc. The exchange rate and attendance have a direct impact on the financial success of the team. If the Senators were selling out every home game, the team would be in a very different position.
There is a veritable mountain of evidence of actual tangible evidence that explains the situation. But some folks choose to ignore that and instead ascribe bizarre motives to the owner of the team. It's baffling.

Their is ZERO evidence the Franchise (arena included) is losing MONEY.

He only started crying poor when he wanted to impose the budget. For most of the 15 years he spent to ice a competitive team and the fans support was strong.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

More revenue = Bigger budget?

Well in spite of a few empty seats, Eugene made a KILLING on last year's playoff run.

He also got a bonus 16M in expansion fees.

Our team was (as your hero Eugene reminded fans) one goal from the cup final last year. He promised the budget was only temporary and he'd spend when the team was competitive again, right?

So this year's team is running at the cap and Eugene is using last season's bounty to buy out bad contracts and give us the competitive edge, right?

In short, you are the perfect spokesperson for Melnyk. (I'm just trying to figure out which one of you two wins the "most full of **** award". )

I wish someone would press him with these questions when he goes on his propaganda tour of radio shows.

 

[coladin]

I think the problem with the argument put forth by the "this fanbase doesn't show the same devotion" crowd is this; it's not the fanbase that's the problem. The fans we have are fantastic and every bit as passionate as any other teams fans. The issue is this market was already saturated with diehard Toronto and Montreal fans. Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, none of them had that problem. So even if you argue only 20% or 25% of the population is a fan of an out of market team (surveys have suggested the actual numbers are much higher), that's still a huge hit compared to other markets. The problem in Ottawa isn't the fans of Ottawa, it's the teams inability to convert other teams fans. That's a marketing issue, not a fan issue.

I agree, our diehards are phenomenal, we just don't have enough of them. I don't think it is marketing , considering the team is established after 25 years, and the arena has been around for 22. I believe it is a fan base that was perhaps spoiled by early success that struggles with the down times more than other fan bases. This team was a perennial playoff participant. It just seems unbelievable to me that a bad season happens, as it has to other teams, and the fans have literally jumped off the bandwagon, even with Karlsson in the lineup. I mean, Buffalo has better attendance, and they have been bad for a long time.

Everyone wears this : the owners and the fans. I can't blame one side or the other, it is a whole picture issue and I am not sure how this is going to turn around. I hope something changes quick because if people continue to abandon the arena, we will lose a lot more than Erik Karlsson.

This is a critical junction for this franchise with more uncertainty than even the bankruptcy situation. I felt at that time the NHL would do something to help us because it was beyond our control. But if Eugene chooses to run the team into the ground, or as he states tying revenues to salaries (that is the ground to me) , the NHL can't stop him.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Again, as others have already mentioned, what exactly is this grand conspiracy? What is this 15 year long con that Melnyk is running? I fail to see the logic in your accusations. Melnyk isn't crying poor. He has loads of money. The Senators franchise has trouble operating in the black. There are a ton of reasons why this is so. Small market being a big one. Some have mentioned the fact that this is a Govt town, Phoenix issues, arena location, etc. The exchange rate and attendance have a direct impact on the financial success of the team. If the Senators were selling out every home game, the team would be in a very different position.
There is a veritable mountain of evidence of actual tangible evidence that explains the situation. But some folks choose to ignore that and instead ascribe bizarre motives to the owner of the team. It's baffling.

The conspiracy makes a lot of sense when one considers that it's perpetuated by folks who want the owner to spend more money on the team for their enjoyment, but don't want to spend any money on the team themselves.

I mean here are people who keep trotting out numbers and accusations with no evidence, but a boat load of demands concerning how someone else should spend their money. When he makes a statement concerning how fans should spend their money he's the devil. When someone point out how ridiculous this whole thing is they are EM spokes people, and he's their hero.

There's a reason why these ramblings are going nowhere and will die off, even in here eventually; most people are venting frustrations, but deep down they understand that they are part of the problem, that it's a shared burden, and that being part of the shared solution is the only way things will get better.

The same guys out in left field will continue to tout that this grand campaign is akin to the fall of the Berlin Wall and that they are social justice heroes, until everyone around them simply tunes them out.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

The conspiracy makes a lot of sense when one considers that it's perpetuated by folks who want the owner to spend more money on the team for their enjoyment, but don't want to spend any money on the team themselves.

2011-2015: Attendance is great and fans are on board for a rebuild. Melnyk doesn’t spend to the cap and says he will “when the time is right”.

2016-present: He never actually spends to the cap and blames fans for not showing up.

The onus is on him. Now the fanbase is expecting another franchise player to leave. He’s dug himself deep in a hole. He can’t blame empty seats next year on anyone other than himself.

 

[Micklebot]

Again, as others have already mentioned, what exactly is this grand conspiracy? What is this 15 year long con that Melnyk is running? I fail to see the logic in your accusations. Melnyk isn't crying poor. He has loads of money. The Senators franchise has trouble operating in the black. There are a ton of reasons why this is so. Small market being a big one. Some have mentioned the fact that this is a Govt town, Phoenix issues, arena location, etc. The exchange rate and attendance have a direct impact on the financial success of the team. If the Senators were selling out every home game, the team would be in a very different position.
There is a veritable mountain of evidence of actual tangible evidence that explains the situation. But some folks choose to ignore that and instead ascribe bizarre motives to the owner of the team. It's baffling.

Look at the panthers. They lose money, collect revenue sharing, and are used as an example as to why the owners need a better deal. But, the parent company knows full well that the panthers are just one piece of an overall business plan that is profitable. Without the Panthers, no arena would have been built and SSE isn't raking in money on all the other events.

The Sens don't need to be profitable for Melnyk to profit from owning them and the related ventures. And while he'd prefer they make a profit, it's probably safer for him to mitigate the risk of bigger loses than to go after the potential bigger profits, particularly when the team as an investment continues to rise in value. He's tried in the past to parlay crying poor into a casino, and better deals on Lebreton, so there's obvious incentive here.

Also worth pointing out, Melnyk hasn't been crying poor for 15 years. It's really only started to surface over the last 6 or so years.

in the end, it's all a high stakes poker game for these guys; they'll bluff to get a better return, and we don't ever get to see the cards to know if we've been had or not. That doesn't mean they're always lying, but you can't just take what they say publically as fact.

 

[Ice-Tray]

2011-2015: Attendance is great and fans are on board for a rebuild. Melnyk doesn’t spend to the cap and says he will “when the time is right”.

2016-present: He never actually spends to the cap and blames fans for not showing up.

The onus is on him. Now the fanbase is expecting another franchise player to leave. He’s dug himself deep in a hole. He can’t blame empty seats next year on anyone other than himself.

Consider for a second that we have the cheapest tickets in Canada by far, and attendance was papered. There is no point arguing with you about this.

Folks sit at home and blame everyone and everything else. No matter, others will do the heavy lifting for you, or the team will leave. You keep doing you, part of the problem I say.

 

[coladin]

Look at the panthers. They lose money, collect revenue sharing, and are used as an example as to why the owners need a better deal. But, the parent company knows full well that the panthers are just one piece of an overall business plan that is profitable. Without the Panthers, no arena would have been built and SSE isn't raking in money on all the other events.

The Sens don't need to be profitable for Melnyk to profit from owning them and the related ventures. And while he'd prefer they make a profit, it's probably safer for him to mitigate the risk of bigger loses than to go after the potential bigger profits, particularly when the team as an investment continues to rise in value. He's tried in the past to parlay crying poor into a casino, and better deals on Lebreton, so there's obvious incentive here.

Also worth pointing out, Melnyk hasn't been crying poor for 15 years. It's really only started to surface over the last 6 or so years.

in the end, it's all a high stakes poker game for these guys; they'll bluff to get a better return, and we don't ever get to see the cards to know if we've been had or not. That doesn't mean they're always lying, but you can't just take what they say publically as fact.

Everyone around here seems to adore Cyril Leeder, he stated Melnyk has lost $94M...what to do with that info ? Royal Flush?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Look at the panthers. They lose money, collect revenue sharing, and are used as an example as to why the owners need a better deal. But, the parent company knows full well that the panthers are just one piece of an overall business plan that is profitable. Without the Panthers, no arena would have been built and SSE isn't raking in money on all the other events.

The Sens don't need to be profitable for Melnyk to profit from owning them and the related ventures. And while he'd prefer they make a profit, it's probably safer for him to mitigate the risk of bigger loses than to go after the potential bigger profits, particularly when the team as an investment continues to rise in value. He's tried in the past to parlay crying poor into a casino, and better deals on Lebreton, so there's obvious incentive here.

Also worth pointing out, Melnyk hasn't been crying poor for 15 years. It's really only started to surface over the last 6 or so years.

in the end, it's all a high stakes poker game for these guys; they'll bluff to get a better return, and we don't ever get to see the cards to know if we've been had or not. That doesn't mean they're always lying, but you can't just take what they say publically as fact.

Yes, an owner with many profitable businesses that can afford to pour money into a team and lose money doing it is ideal, though it's not really realistic to expect it.

He hasn't been crying poor the whole time because he suffered a financial blow, the cap has skyrocketed, we haven't generated the same playoff revenues as we once did, and attendance has dropped.

Come now, circumstances have changed, and fan support has made things worse. Cheapest tickets, lowest attendance = not our fault.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Consider for a second that we have the cheapest tickets in Canada by far, and attendance was papered. There is no point arguing with you about this.

Folks sit at home and blame everyone and everything else. No matter, others will do the heavy lifting for you, or the team will leave. You keep doing you, part of the problem I say.

Look where we were in 2014 when we still wouldn’t spend.

Toronto Maple Leafs most expensive ticket in NHL; all teams listed 1 to 30 | The Hockey News

And even if attendance was papered, we were in the top half of the league
In profits.

Were you one of those that bought into his whole “You’ll see, I’ll spend soon. Trust me!” scam?

 

[thammias]

Fans raise 8k.

Melnyk's trying to raise half a billion dollars to build a new arena downtown, hopefully without any public money. Of course he's gonna cut costs. It sucks but it's the reality of the situation.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Look where we were in 2014 when we still wouldn’t spend.

Toronto Maple Leafs most expensive ticket in NHL; all teams listed 1 to 30 | The Hockey News

Were you one of those that bought into his whole “You’ll see, I’ll spend soon. Trust me!” scam?

I'm the guy who has watched us slowly build the team up with drafted players, signed every single core player to term extensions, increasing the budget as the team developed and grew. I wouldn't expect us to be a cap team right no given that we're not ready to contend.

In a few years once our young crop develops sure. Once we can't/don't re-sign a player that I want us to keep I'll be upset about EM's spending on the team.

There, is no scam, and you're not a victim, stop pretending to be one. No one feels sorry for you, you have an NHL team, get off your ass and go enjoy watching it and one of the best players of our time play.

 

[Deku]

In a few years once our young crop develops sure. Once we can't/don't re-sign a player that I want us to keep I'll be upset about EM's spending on the team.

see you when EK is gone on draft day

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I'm the guy who has watched us slowly build the team up with drafted players, signed every single core player to term extensions, increasing the budget as the team developed and grew. I wouldn't expect us to be a cap team right no given that we're not ready to contend.

In a few years once our young crop develops sure. Once we can't/don't re-sign a player that I want us to keep I'll be upset about EM's spending on the team.

There, is no scam, and you're not a victim, stop pretending to be one. No one feels sorry for you, you have an NHL team, get off your ass and go enjoy watching it and one of the best players of our time play.

“We were one goal away from the Stanley Cup Finals and we still have that in our DNA. We’re not ready to spend because we’re not ready to contend. We need a rebuild but it’s totally not because I can’t spend.”

This is what you’re buying.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes, an owner with many profitable businesses that can afford to pour money into a team and lose money doing it is ideal, though it's not really realistic to expect it.

He hasn't been crying poor the whole time because he suffered a financial blow, the cap has skyrocketed, we haven't generated the same playoff revenues as we once did, and attendance has dropped.

Come now, circumstances have changed, and fan support has made things worse. Cheapest tickets, lowest attendance = not our fault.

You're right, circumstances have changed, tv revenues have skyrocketed. The team got an expansion fee of 16 mil and expects another one in short time. The tv deals alone are generating about 40-45 mil a year (mostly from the regional deal which expected to give them about 2 times as much as the national deal). The old regional deal was paying them 125k a game and the national deal basically doubled with the new one. Revenue loses from the drop in attendance would have been more than offset by these tv deals.

 

[thammias]

Bettman: Flames' financial situation 'continues to deteriorate' due to arena - Article - TSN

Are the Flames lying about their financial situation as well?

Are people forgetting that Melnyk is also trying to build a 500 million dollar arena downtown?

 

[swiftwin]

Yes, an owner with many profitable businesses

Source?

 

[philb613]

More of the same excuses. Don't compare us to other cities, it's not fair... We're a good market, we're just hiding... Please.

You can't fill the stands but want the owner to fill the cap. You don't like comparisons because x,y,z, but that is all just noise. You either can support a team or you can't. This isn't just on the owner, it's on you. Blaming corporate boxes, government wages, and whatever else but most of YOU don't go to games because you don't want to. Ottawa is a small market that wants the owner to play big market while it stays home. I just don't see why fans don't want to be part of the solution instead of compounding the problem.

The numbers show the market is weak, hopefully a smaller downtown arena will help remedy that.

Seriously you say not to compare, and then at the end say hopefully a smaller downtown arena will help. YOU'RE COMPARING US TO WINNIPEG WITH EXACTLY THAT.

Jesus man, I said our market has problems but brushing them aside as excuses isn't a way to solve them. PS I've worked at the arena for 10 years, and have gone to at minimum of 10 games a year during that time so gtfo with I'm part of the problem.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Seriously you say not to compare, and then at the end say hopefully a smaller downtown arena will help. YOU'RE COMPARING US TO WINNIPEG WITH EXACTLY THAT.

Jesus man, I said our market has problems but brushing them aside as excuses isn't a way to solve them. PS I've worked at the arena for 10 years, and have gone to at minimum of 10 games a year during that time so gtfo with I'm part of the problem.

I should have put quotes. The poster I responded to said "don't compare" not me, I was full on comparing.

I don't care how long you've worked at the arena, if' you're calling for boycotting gamest, or blaming the owner solely for the Ottawa Senators financial struggles, then yes you're part of the problem and you can 'gtfo'.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Source?

I dunno, ask Mick he's the one who knows more about Florida's owner, unless you weren't following along and thought I was talking about EM.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You're right, circumstances have changed, tv revenues have skyrocketed. The team got an expansion fee of 16 mil and expects another one in short time. The tv deals alone are generating about 40-45 mil a year (mostly from the regional deal which expected to give them about 2 times as much as the national deal). The old regional deal was paying them 125k a game and the national deal basically doubled with the new one. Revenue loses from the drop in attendance would have been more than offset by these tv deals.

Well, I guess you're right. EM is making a ton of money off the Senators, not putting it into the team, crying poor, and lying to everyone about it.

Poor attendance is his fault, as is the poor on ice product, and poor management. The #melnykout campaign is a noble endeavour spurred on by a wronged fanbase looking to affect positive change.