Confirmed with Link: #MelnykOut Campaign - successfully raised 8K over this past weekend.

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Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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The worst part is that there are interested buyers with deep pockets, he is always crying poor and could make bank on the sale alone, and the guy has no interest in winning the cup at all, so what is the point of owning this team and holding it hostage?


Any names?
 

Boud

Registered User
Dec 27, 2011
13,562
6,983
The same Sens marketing that had Turris commercials playing into January and Turris posters around the stadium into December.

They are way behind the proverbial 8-ball, reading into anything they do is a waste of time.

The same will happen with the Brassard posters on the OC Bus.
 

Boud

Registered User
Dec 27, 2011
13,562
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Any names?

Guy Laliberté(Cirque du Soleil co-founder), André Desmarais (Power corporation), Mierins family (Mierins Auto Group), William Sinclair (co-founder of JDS Uniphase)

and also:

Dreger: There are groups interested in buying the Ottawa Senators

I mean it should also just be a logic thing that people would be interested in buying the team with the Lebreton project underway and the downtown arena coming. Tons of potential suitors would be interested in that, it's a huge and highly profitable project down the line that allows a lot of visibility and redefines the city.
 
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Tnuoc Alucard

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Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
4,946
1,566
If all you want is for Melnyk to go away, then fine. I guess the President of the land of butterflies and rainbows (as another poster put it) will purchase the team and everything will be great? Doesn't anyone remember that that title was basically given to Melnyk when he bought the team? Folks thought that a billionaire owner would fix everything. Funny how all of the same issues that plagued the previous ownership have remained for the current ownership.

Personally, I'd like the team to enjoy success on the ice, play an uptempo exciting brand of hockey, sign EK65 or be honest about the path to building a winning team without him, reduce parking rates, combine more merch incentives with tickets, move to an arena downtown, change up the jerseys a bit, etc, etc, etc.

Rather than bicker and be aggressively negative, I just feel that focusing on the issues that contribute to having a stable, professional and successful franchise would make more sense. Choose to be positive and see where it leads.

When Melnyk bought the team he was spending like a champ. right to the cap. Bringing the Eagles in for a free concert for season ticket holders, then he downgraded the free concert the next year a bit by bringing in some impression expert, but that was still a fun show. I went to it..for free...all paid by Melnyk.

Fast forward to now. I think he's still a billionaire on paper, but in terms of cash on hand, I'd wager that he's got much less compared to 10 years ago.

It's pretty obvious that he can't keep up with the big boys in the league anymore. he could when the cap was below $60M. He can't anymore.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

🇨🇦🔑🧲✈️🎲🥅🎱🍟🥨🌗
Sep 23, 2015
7,994
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Guy Laliberté(Cirque du Soleil co-founder), André Desmarais (Power corporation), Mierins family (Mierins Auto Group), William Sinclair (co-founder of JDS Uniphase)

and also:

Dreger: There are groups interested in buying the Ottawa Senators

I mean it should also just be a logic thing that people would be interested in buying the team with the Lebreton project underway and the downtown arena coming. Tons of potential suitors would be interested in that, it's a huge and highly profitable project down the line that allows a lot of visibility and redefines the city.



Dreger " no, nothing new, the same old RUMOURS, just speculation" when asked about interested buyers, in December of last year, before Melnyk's bid to develop Lebreton was selected in January this year.
FAIL


I like how you did not mention their interest to buy the Senators was contingent on their bid winning the right to redevelop Lebreton Flats.




The partners in the Devcore Canderel DLS Group want to buy the Ottawa Senators from Eugene Melnyk and move the team to their proposed “Theatre of Sports and Entertainment” on LeBreton Flats, a source close to the partners said Monday.
If the DCDLS bid to develop LeBreton Flats is successful, “these guys want to buy the team. These are individuals who have very deep pockets. They live, they work and they pay taxes here in Canada. They’re close, they can support the Senators.”
The DCDLS partners include Quebec billionaires André Desmarais and Guy Laliberté, Gatineau’s Devcore Group, Montreal-based Canderel, JDS Uniphase co-founder William Sinclair and the Mierins family of Ottawa.
FAIL


Devcore partners want to buy Senators from Melnyk, source says
 

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,685
4,117
Ottawa
Apparently Melnyk should be in the business of losing money hand over fist because that's what this somewhat unsupportive fanbase is demanding.

In the middle of a deep playoff run last year this fanbase couldn't even be bothered to sell out home games. We have a hilariously high amount of refinanced debt that was inherited from the previous ownership. And while the value of the team has gone up over the years it barely compensates for the money that's been lost, a fact or figure that no one seems to want to believe despite the fact that they can't produce any evidence to support their side of the argument.

So the only thing that's left is to cast aspersions on someone with little to no evidence to support their argument all while expecting this person to literally lose tens of millions of dollars per year so that this fanbase can live out a fantasy of being a major NHL market.

That's not our reality. Our reality is we are a small market team that loses money every year unless we get to the playoffs and get all of the revenues associated with that.

Oh and by the way, I don't remember a single core player with a multiyear future ahead of them walking away in UFA. Every single guy that we've wanted to be signed long term has eventually been signed, including that now-disastrous Ryan contract.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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If all you want is for Melnyk to go away, then fine. I guess the President of the land of butterflies and rainbows (as another poster put it) will purchase the team and everything will be great? Doesn't anyone remember that that title was basically given to Melnyk when he bought the team? Folks thought that a billionaire owner would fix everything. Funny how all of the same issues that plagued the previous ownership have remained for the current ownership.

Personally, I'd like the team to enjoy success on the ice, play an uptempo exciting brand of hockey, sign EK65 or be honest about the path to building a winning team without him, reduce parking rates, combine more merch incentives with tickets, move to an arena downtown, change up the jerseys a bit, etc, etc, etc.

Rather than bicker and be aggressively negative, I just feel that focusing on the issues that contribute to having a stable, professional and successful franchise would make more sense. Choose to be positive and see where it leads.

To be fair, when Melnyk initially came in, financial issues weren't really a thing for a while. We were a cap team or close to it in 2005-06, I believe, and 2006-07 and right up till 2010. I don't think the cap outpaced us until the 2011-12 season when we had unloaded guys a the prior deadline and went to more of a youthful team.

Our issues in the 2004-2008 days were more about fitting our pieces in under the cap, and having to trade off guys like Havlat as a cap casualty. Then, when we traded Heatley, it was more about fitting his contract into the Sharks salary structure than us being cheap. It wasn't really until later that we started hearing things like Money in equal to money out, or any idiot can spend to the cap. Heck, we even went after major UFA's in Gonchar (2010) and Kovalev (2009).

Now, the cap has gone up about 20 mil since we were a cap team, and the Canadian dollar has struggled, so maybe we can't blame Melnyk entirely on not being able to keep pace, particularly with the Dollar dropping ~3 years ago.

That said, being a bubble team with a strict budget is probably the worst situation to be in. A little extra money infused could be the difference between playoffs or no playoffs, and missing every second year probably does more damage than adding an extra 2 mil to the roster. The lack of flexibility has probably cost us playoffs or even extra rounds. Moreover, it's the decision to cut corners in off ice expenditures that has me scratching my head. If we don't invest in the right decision makers, how are we to insure that we getting value for our money with the roster decisions.
 
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slamigo

Skate or Die!
Dec 25, 2007
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To be sure, there was a honeymoon phase, but we cannot ignore the fact that the Ottawa Senators were $300M in debt when Melnyk purchased the team. The factors that led to that debt can be debated, but it's not like Bryden was printing money out there in Kanata. The team was bankrupt. It was purchased out of bankruptcy.

Flash forward to today and fans simply will not believe that the team incurs debt and has trouble being a viable business. If anything, we should collectively be happy with the fact that Melnyk floated the operation for as long as he did. Now the city has to face up to the fact that it is either a market that can support an NHL club or it is not. It's just far too easy to blame Melnyk.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,120
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Apparently Melnyk should be in the business of losing money hand over fist because that's what this somewhat unsupportive fanbase is demanding.

Forbes estimates the operating income of the team for the last 10 years combined at 78.9 mil, and that doesn't include the ~16 mil expansion he just received. Granted Forbes isn't perfect by any means, and Operating income doesn't include taxes, it's hard to believe he's losing money hand over fist as you suggest.

In the middle of a deep playoff run last year this fanbase couldn't even be bothered to sell out home games. We have a hilariously high amount of refinanced debt that was inherited from the previous ownership. And while the value of the team has gone up over the years it barely compensates for the money that's been lost, a fact or figure that no one seems to want to believe despite the fact that they can't produce any evidence to support their side of the argument.

The team has had plenty of time to pay down debts, and he bought the team for pennies on the dollar. Any debt the team is currently servicing has little to do with prior ownership at this point.

So the only thing that's left is to cast aspersions on someone with little to no evidence to support their argument all while expecting this person to literally lose tens of millions of dollars per year so that this fanbase can live out a fantasy of being a major NHL market.
So where is your evidence to support this claim of losing tens of millions of dollars per year?

That's not our reality. Our reality is we are a small market team that loses money every year unless we get to the playoffs and get all of the revenues associated with that.
Our reality is one where we don't have the figures to know whether or not the team loses money or not, but even if we assume the team is breaking even on average (Forbes seems to suggest otherwise, but it's certainly something that can be questioned) the owner still stands to see the net value climb steadily making the venture fruitful.

Oh and by the way, I don't remember a single core player with a multiyear future ahead of them walking away in UFA. Every single guy that we've wanted to be signed long term has eventually been signed, including that now-disastrous Ryan contract.

I'm not sure success signing our own UFA means as much as you seem to be implying. Most teams are able to sign their UFA, and when they think it's in question, they trade them (like we did with Turris). Sure it does happen, like when Chara walked away. Heck, we offered some lesser guys contracts who walked (Stalberg and Hemsky for example) too but the bigger issue is that we won't patch holes and operate on too strict a budget; things like needing cash in to match the cash out on deals like Spezza, and opting for bandaid solutions like Oduya.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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To be sure, there was a honeymoon phase, but we cannot ignore the fact that the Ottawa Senators were $300M in debt when Melnyk purchased the team. The factors that led to that debt can be debated, but it's not like Bryden was printing money out there in Kanata. The team was bankrupt. It was purchased out of bankruptcy.

Flash forward to today and fans simply will not believe that the team incurs debt and has trouble being a viable business. If anything, we should collectively be happy with the fact that Melnyk floated the operation for as long as he did. Now the city has to face up to the fact that it is either a market that can support an NHL club or it is not. It's just far too easy to blame Melnyk.

The debt wasn't because the team wasn't supported, it was because the original business plan to fund building an arena and expansion fee got severely undermined by a NDP gov't that decided not to play along.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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Forbes estimates the operating income of the team for the last 10 years combined at 78.9 mil, and that doesn't include the ~16 mil expansion he just received. Granted Forbes isn't perfect by any means, and Operating income doesn't include taxes, it's hard to believe he's losing money hand over fist as you suggest.



The team has had plenty of time to pay down debts, and he bought the team for pennies on the dollar. Any debt the team is currently servicing has little to do with prior ownership at this point.


So where is your evidence to support this claim of losing tens of millions of dollars per year?


Our reality is one where we don't have the figures to know whether or not the team loses money or not, but even if we assume the team is breaking even on average (Forbes seems to suggest otherwise, but it's certainly something that can be questioned) the owner still stands to see the net value climb steadily making the venture fruitful.



I'm not sure success signing our own UFA means as much as you seem to be implying. Most teams are able to sign their UFA, and when they think it's in question, they trade them (like we did with Turris). Sure it does happen, like when Chara walked away. Heck, we offered some lesser guys contracts who walked (Stalberg and Hemsky for example) too but the bigger issue is that we won't patch holes and operate on too strict a budget; things like needing cash in to match the cash out on deals like Spezza, and opting for bandaid solutions like Oduya.
Thanks for saving me the keystrokes.
 

slamigo

Skate or Die!
Dec 25, 2007
6,430
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Look, if people want to be angry then be angry. But once you’re all done being angry (and I hope that eventually you will be) the situation will still remain.
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,713
6,799
Apparently Melnyk should be in the business of losing money hand over fist because that's what this somewhat unsupportive fanbase is demanding.

In the middle of a deep playoff run last year this fanbase couldn't even be bothered to sell out home games. We have a hilariously high amount of refinanced debt that was inherited from the previous ownership. And while the value of the team has gone up over the years it barely compensates for the money that's been lost, a fact or figure that no one seems to want to believe despite the fact that they can't produce any evidence to support their side of the argument.

So the only thing that's left is to cast aspersions on someone with little to no evidence to support their argument all while expecting this person to literally lose tens of millions of dollars per year so that this fanbase can live out a fantasy of being a major NHL market.

That's not our reality. Our reality is we are a small market team that loses money every year unless we get to the playoffs and get all of the revenues associated with that.

Oh and by the way, I don't remember a single core player with a multiyear future ahead of them walking away in UFA. Every single guy that we've wanted to be signed long term has eventually been signed, including that now-disastrous Ryan contract.

Wow, what a horrible fanbase we are. I never realized that the community was responsible for making sure a billionaire made his fair share or that anyone in Ottawa has the responsibility to ensure Melnyck runs his team properly.

If we are such a pain he should sell the team and move to Barbados.

It’s like when my grocery store went bankrupt and closed, the owner accused the people in my neighbourhood of not eating enough, I guess he was right, but I just wasn’t hungry
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
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The debt wasn't because the team wasn't supported, it was because the original business plan to fund building an arena and expansion fee got severely undermined by a NDP gov't that decided not to play along.

In case anyone wants a slightly more specific history to the bolded...

Basically, the Ontario Premier at the time was David Peterson, a Liberal. Part of our bid for the NHL team involved a privately funded arena, but it was privately funded based on three guarantees from the government:
1) the arena site (100 acres) and surrounding land (500 acres) needed priority to be re-zoned so that an arena could be built on what was until then zoned as agricultural land
2) public money to build a $30mil highway interchange that would allow highway access to the arena - the interchange would then be donated back to the province upon completion.
3) Support from the provincial government for the team in the upcoming expansion bid process.

Peterson agreed to all 3 of the requests, and specifically was in favor of the private funding for the arena with public funding for the infrastructure (the interchange) and thought it was fair in light of the Skydome budgetary disaster, which cost the province almost $700mil.

Rae then won the 1990 election, but not only that, only 1 of the 12 ridings in Ottawa went to an NDP candidate, so Ottawa went to the bottom of the list for any requests from the government. Rae promptly reneged on all three promises made by the Peterson government. No re-zoning of land. No public money for an interchange (when the Sens were forced to pay for it, it was the only privately-financed interchange on a 400-series highway in the entire province). They wouldn't even fly to Florida to help promote the expansion bid.

The Sens had to basically take the province to a hearing at the Ontario Municipal Board (who was in charge of arbitrating land use in Ontario). The OMB ruled that the Senators were allowed to build the arena on the 100 acres of land that it now sits on, but refused the interchange claim, and most importantly refused the re-zoning of the 500 acres of land around the arena owned by the senators.

How did the re-zoning refusal of the 500 acres put the Sens in a hole? Well, the entire financing of the arena was through the development of that land. The Sens has bought 600 acres of land at $12,000 per acre. After re-zoning and building the arena, the land would have been worth $100,000+ per acre overnight. The arena was to be funded when the Sens flipped the surrounding land at a 10x profit on what they paid for it. When Rae refused to honor Peterson's promises, it meant that the team was still required to build an arena without public money, but they went into EXTREME debt to do so (they not only had to find $250mil to build the arena, but another $30mil for the interchange), debt which the team never got out of until the Melnyk purchase of the team + arena. Also, let's not forget that Melnyk didn't pay almost any of that debt - Bryden basically stiffed local businesses for over $100 million of "forgiven" debt - he only ended up paying $600k of that $100mil, and if he had declared bankruptcy, he would have paid $0.

Honestly... if Peterson had never called an early election in 1990 (he called the election 2 years early), the team would probably still be owned by Rod Bryden & Terrace Investments. We never would have gone into debt to build the arena, the surrounding 500 acres would have been built up into a huge developmental retail/residential neighborhood (think the current Lebreton project, but in Kanata), and the org probably would have a MUCH different history.
 
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Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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The debt wasn't because the team wasn't supported, it was because the original business plan to fund building an arena and expansion fee got severely undermined by a NDP gov't that decided not to play along.


Didn't the original Business plan for the Palladium include an Attached Hotel, and with seating for over 22K, plus a residential development plan for the surrounding land, not used for the arena?


I seem to remember one of the levels of government putting the kibosch on the Hotel competence, reducing the seating capacity, and not re-zoning the surrounding land for residential development.

Edit: found some background info History of the Ottawa Senators (1992–)
 

branch

#GirlBoss #Vibes
Jan 12, 2008
8,837
7,233
Dreger " no, nothing new, the same old RUMOURS, just speculation" when asked about interested buyers, in December of last year, before Melnyk's bid to develop Lebreton was selected in January this year.
FAIL


I like how you did not mention their interest to buy the Senators was contingent on their bid winning the right to redevelop Lebreton Flats.




The partners in the Devcore Canderel DLS Group want to buy the Ottawa Senators from Eugene Melnyk and move the team to their proposed “Theatre of Sports and Entertainment” on LeBreton Flats, a source close to the partners said Monday.
If the DCDLS bid to develop LeBreton Flats is successful, “these guys want to buy the team. These are individuals who have very deep pockets. They live, they work and they pay taxes here in Canada. They’re close, they can support the Senators.”
The DCDLS partners include Quebec billionaires André Desmarais and Guy Laliberté, Gatineau’s Devcore Group, Montreal-based Canderel, JDS Uniphase co-founder William Sinclair and the Mierins family of Ottawa.
FAIL


Devcore partners want to buy Senators from Melnyk, source says
Are you a day trader or something? Or do you just have a very slow job where you can rebuke people all day? Honest question.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,120
30,337


Anybody see the "Letter"?

They read it on team 1200 (Mendes and Simmer).

There was a part where Melnyk stated he had proven time and time again his commitment to winning, I got out of the car right about then to fill the car with gas and when I got back in Mendes and Simmer were basically ripping the team for taking bad contracts, and not spending on management, letting scouts go, ect.
 
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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
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Look, if people want to be angry then be angry. But once you’re all done being angry (and I hope that eventually you will be) the situation will still remain.

Not sure why this is so hard to figure out.

I'm not angry. We all agree that new ownership is the best case scenario for this franchise.

I'm just willing to do something about it.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,288
8,100
Victoria
Not sure why this is so hard to figure out.

I'm not angry. We all agree that new ownership is the best case scenario for this franchise.

I'm just willing to do something about it.

Modern social warrior takes to obscure internet forum to whine and complain; massive social changes followed...
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,228
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Yukon
They read it on team 1200 (Mendes and Simmer).

There was a part where Melnyk stated he had proven time and time again his commitment to winning, I got out of the car right about then to fill the car with gas and when I got back in Mendes and Simmer were basically ripping the team for taking bad contracts, and not spending on management, letting scouts go, ect.
Ya there wasn't much of any substance in that letter now that I've read it.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,288
8,100
Victoria
Ya there wasn't much of any substance in that letter now that I've read it.

I really don't understand why folks in here feel entitled to more. It boggles my mind really. Sure the man isn't likeable when he speaks out, but we've had a good team for years, with a steadily increasing budget, and every single player that we have wanted to keep has been kept. In a perfect world fans would have continued to fill the stands, and money would be there to continue to grow.

Instead we have fans who feel like they deserve better, have taken to insulting the owner for being cheap, (oh the irony) well before he spoke out at the outdoor game. Weak, entitled fanbase is what I see, a group that forgot what it was like to have the team go through bankruptcy, and for some reason feels like they deserve to have a billionaire owner that will fund the team from their own pocket, all while not being able to pack the house on a regular basis.

So much finger pointing, and not enough mirror looking, the fanbase sucks as much as EM right now.... Billboards and gofundmes..... Jesus Christ. If I didn't love to team so much I'd laugh at you all for the situation you've created.
 
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The Lewler

GOAT BUDGET AINEC
Jul 2, 2013
4,675
2,815
Eastern Ontario Badlands
I don't believe I proposed anything yet. But my point is that this isn't a fist fight. The fan base cannot go to war with the owner.
I didn't coin the term 'let cooler heads prevail' but it certainly applies here.

What I am suggesting is that people's energy would be better focused on exploring solutions rather than mounting a PR campaign based on anger.

Seriously, make a list of what you would think the fans of this city would like to see as a future for the club. Make another list of what you believe an owner would like to see. Base those two lists in the reality of a small growing market (next to larger established markets).

I think that there would be a lot of overlap in the two lists. You use that overlap as a basis for moving forward. Melnyk doesn't hate the city and the fans or the club. If we take him at his word, he would like nothing more than to have a prosperous club that is the envy of the league. Hopefully his own (sometimes eccentric) behaviour will not get in the way.

I'm not fighting you on this.

Yes there are clearly lots of shared interests and goals here.

What do you suggest both sides to to move forward with these identified shared priorities ?
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,228
10,450
Yukon
I really don't understand why folks in here feel entitled to more. It boggles my mind really. Sure the man isn't likeable when he speaks out, but we've had a good team for years, with a steadily increasing budget, and every single player that we have wanted to keep has been kept. In a perfect world fans would have continued to fill the stands, and money would be there to continue to grow.

Instead we have fans who feel like they deserve better, have taken to insulting the owner for being cheap, (oh the irony) well before he spoke out at the outdoor game. Weak, entitled fanbase is what I see, a group that forgot what it was like to have the team go through bankruptcy, and for some reason feels like they deserve to have a billionaire owner that will fund the team from their own pocket, all while not being able to pack the house on a regular basis.

So much finger pointing, and not enough mirror looking, the fanbase sucks as much as EM right now.... Billboards and gofundmes..... Jesus Christ. If I didn't love to team so much I'd laugh at you all for the situation you've created.
That's all fine, I was here for the bankruptcy and I can live with being on a budget better than some, but I don't understand the point of putting out this letter if you aren't really going to say anything in it.
 
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