Meeting Day Thread: 6/3

[oildrop]

These updates just seem to be the same things every day now, they just change the dates and times. Common guys, please get it done soon. We can't take much more of this!

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

33 is old for a proffessional athlete.

I didn't say they are "done". I didn't say "finished". I didn't say "useless".

These days a player who is 27 or 28 and who has been in the league for a few years is a veteran. At 33 you are not only a veteran but the end of your career is likely somewhere in the horizon. You think about it, getting one last big contract, or joining a contender to gain that elusive championship ring.

Nolan, in particular due to his style of play, ware and tear, and consequent injuries, is old at 33. He is an old 33. Look at Team Canada. They put him on the SLC team in 2002. And what since then? They decided to go "young" for the WC of hockey in 2004. They didn't even consider him for the World championships. They took "youngsters" like Morrow ahead of Nolan. They took "stars" like Fischer and Maltby ahead of him.

Nolan is clearly not what he once was. He is not the same player he was in 2001 or 2002. He certainly isn't a young player. So what does that leave us with?

So you are basing your arguement on Owen Nolan? How about guys like Mark Messier that was leading the Rangers to the Cup when he was 33. Or guys like Brian Leetch, Ray Bourque, Scott Stevens, Al McInnis and Chris Chelios who were all playing at a Norris Trophy candidate level when they were 35-40.

With modern training techniques many players stay in their prime until their mid-late 30's. Of course, some players age less gracefully than others, especially "power forwards".

 

[19nazzy]

These updates just seem to be the same things every day now, they just change the dates and times. Common guys, please get it done soon. We can't take much more of this!

What's another 2-3 weeks?
We've already been waiting 8 months...

 

[AXN]

That's all? You can't possibly meet for 11 hours on Friday and tell me that there is no progress. What are they doing starring at each other?

 

[Bruwinz37]

So you are basing your arguement on Owen Nolan? How about guys like Mark Messier that was leading the Rangers to the Cup when he was 33. Or guys like Brian Leetch, Ray Bourque, Scott Stevens, Al McInnis and Chris Chelios who were all playing at a Norris Trophy candidate level when they were 35-40.

With modern training techniques many players stay in their prime until their mid-late 30's. Of course, some players age less gracefully than others, especially "power forwards".

As a rule most players decline after they turn 31. Even the guys you mentioned all had their best years before 31 even if they had great years well into their 30s/40s. They still declined, but you are talking about this generations greatest players on D so they still dominated.

No one is saying players can't be productive after 31, but their best years are *almost* always before then.

 

[Leafer4Life]

That's all? You can't possibly meet for 11 hours on Friday and tell me that there is no progress. What are they doing starring at each other?

The article doesn't mention the words "no progress".

 

[Bruwinz37]

That's all? You can't possibly meet for 11 hours on Friday and tell me that there is no progress. What are they doing starring at each other?

Where in that article did it say there was no progress?

 

[Canucks5551]

Where in that article did it say there was no progress?

Yeah, I believe that the NHL and NHLPA have yet to comment.

 

[DanKramerHabs]

It says both sides had "little to say." Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Bruwinz37]

It says both sides had "little to say." Take it for what it's worth.

It means they havent made any statements as to how the meeting went.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

As a rule most players decline after they turn 31. Even the guys you mentioned all had their best years before 31 even if they had great years well into their 30s/40s. They still declined, but you are talking about this generations greatest players on D so they still dominated.

No one is saying players can't be productive after 31, but their best years are *almost* always before then.

I'll disagree, especially with defenseman. Bourque and Chelios won the Norris trophy when they were 34, and Big Al won when he was 36.

Would you consider Joe Sakic's production over the last 4 years to not be among his best? Or Stevie Y from 31-36?

I agree that all of those guys are elite level players, and they tend to age more gracefully than less skilled players.

 

[norrisnick]

Examples are the Av's adding a Rob Blake or the Wings from adding Derian Hatcher and Robert Lang from teams that couldn't afford to pay what someone else could. Does it make sense to anyone that the Wing's budget was based on them making the Stanley cup final's every year?

Not that your argument is wrong, but some of your examples are flawed. The Stars and Caps both were in the upper echelons of payrolls for the last few years. Hatcher and Lang were not plucked from poor impoverished teams incapable of paying them. Unwilling maybe, but not incapable. Hatcher's case was more a matter of extra years on the deal.

 

[Bruwinz37]

I'll disagree, especially with defenseman. Bourque and Chelios won the Norris trophy when they were 34, and Big Al won when he was 36.

Would you consider Joe Sakic's production over the last 4 years to not be among his best? Or Stevie Y from 31-36?

I agree that all of those guys are elite level players, and they tend to age more gracefully than less skilled players.

I watched Bourque intently throughout his whole career and I can say that, without question, he was a better player in his mid-late 20s than after 31. Ditto for Chelios. Not to say they havent played great since then, but they werent their best years.

Regardless, the point is that even if you have a couple examples of players who played better after 31 (best example being Johnny Bucyk fwiw) they are the exception and not the rule.....and it isnt even close.

 

[flames45us]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=126909

they was make progress and will more meeting next week

 

[AXN]

Where in that article did it say there was no progress?

It didn't mention progress. Apposite is no progress. You right the NHL and NHLPA did not comment yet but you would hope for a little more news. Hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Flyguy_1ca]

Daly, NHL Executive Vice President & Chief Legal Officer:
"We continued our discussions on financial and accounting issues, and while we are making progress, we still have a lot of work to do. The parties have agreed to continue the process with a series of meetings next week, at which time we hope to begin discussing a myriad of other CBA issues."

Senior Director Ted Saskin released the following statement:
“Earlier this evening we concluded three days of small group meetings. Once again a wide range of economic and systemic concepts were discussed. The parties have agreed to continue meeting next week.â€

 

[GKJ]

It says they started at 8 am, and ended around 10pm. That's another 14 hour meeting.



It looks like a recycled article though.




And comments.

 

[not quite yoda]

So you are basing your arguement on Owen Nolan? How about guys like Mark Messier that was leading the Rangers to the Cup when he was 33. Or guys like Brian Leetch, Ray Bourque, Scott Stevens, Al McInnis and Chris Chelios who were all playing at a Norris Trophy candidate level when they were 35-40.

With modern training techniques many players stay in their prime until their mid-late 30's. Of course, some players age less gracefully than others, especially "power forwards".

Yeah. This was about Nolan. Not those guys. And notice that every guy you mentioned is a D. And notice every guy you mentioned is VERY likely headed for the Hall of Fame at some point. Nolan is not and most players are not. There are of course exceptions. But don't tell me you'd take a 33 year old Bourque over a 28 year old Bourque.

 

[not quite yoda]

Article says they continued going over accounting issues. They hope to move on to a "myriad of other CBA related issues" next week. That's good. Suggests they've solved the whole accounting "issue". Guess it means they will talk about rokkie caps and QO and UFA ages and such next. It's progressing. They always said "alot of work left to be done.

*click click click click click click click click click click click *

 

[Leafer4Life]

Sounds positive!

 

[Motown Beatdown]

Let me guess, Gary and Bob will talk this weekend. Agree to meet Wednesday and Thursday. After those meeting they'll plan a unscheduled Friday meeting. Leave those meetings says the are getting closer and will talk next week.

the only question is where will they meet?

 

[FLYLine27*]

They go in a circle it seems...CHI, TOR, NYC, so i say NYC is next week.

 

[Larionov]

Article says they continued going over accounting issues. They hope to move on to a "myriad of other CBA related issues" next week. That's good. Suggests they've solved the whole accounting "issue". Guess it means they will talk about rokkie caps and QO and UFA ages and such next. It's progressing. They always said "alot of work left to be done.

This is why a February deal was probably never in the cards. The two sides were so far apart that they hadn't even STARTED talking about the issues they are just hitting now. It was pretty unrealistic to suggest that they were going to sit down on one Saturday afternoon in New York, wave a wand, and come to a landing on rookie caps, qualifying offers, etc., even if they were able to agree on a cap number. We all know this should have been done a year ago, but sadly it took the 'PA a wasted year to finally figure out that the cap and linkage were inevitable.[/QUOTE]

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

In which city do you think the press conference to annonce the end

of the lockout will be held Toronto or New York? I say New York.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Yeah. This was about Nolan. Not those guys. And notice that every guy you mentioned is a D. And notice every guy you mentioned is VERY likely headed for the Hall of Fame at some point. Nolan is not and most players are not. There are of course exceptions. But don't tell me you'd take a 33 year old Bourque over a 28 year old Bourque.

In a different post I mentioned guys like Sakic and Yzerman who stayed at an all-world level well into their 30's. I realize that not everyone ages like fine wine. For every Messier you have several Jari Kurri's.

I do realize that all of my examples are among the truly elite players in the NHL. It just makes me laugh when people are ready to write guys off after the 30th birthday's, when most elite players have at least 5 more great years in them, and another 5 year of being a solid contributor.

My point is that it was very VERY difficult for a small market team under the old CBA to build a team. Most player don't hit their peak until they're 25'ish (I realize that there are freaks like Nash, Gaborik & Kovalchuk, but they are VERY rare). Unless a small market team is really lucky, they have a very limited window to compete, or they have to strip down, and start over.

Look at OTT (assuming no lockout). They had a real solid squad over the last 3-4 years, but they couldn't take the next step. If they were not purchased by Melnyk and had the budget increase, they would of likely had to let Alfredsson go, gone with a cheap replacement for Lalime, and likely kept either Chara or Redden. They wouldn't of totally tanked, but they wouldn't have been as good a team as they should of been last year.