Confirmed with Link: McCabe/Lafferty and 2024/25 5ths to TOR for protected 2025 1st, 2026 2nd, Anderson, & Gogolev

[WindsorHawk]

Lafferty was not going to fetch a 1st.

I can’t get worked up over 5th rounders.

As someone else said, if you told me a year ago that we’d get a 1st and 2nd for McCabe and Lafferty, I’d have thought you were drunk. We had three 1sts last year, and at least two per year for the next three years. Plus a ton of 2nds. It’s just what the doctor ordered.

Maybe, maybe not, i dont think a swap was out of the question but who knows. A second rounder this year however was not and i feel that would have served us far better for the reasons i mentioned. Big believer in this draft compated to most others.

Fair enough....but why waste?? Anderson was just waived, kasperi kapanen and others too.

Both improved their stock a lot from last year and that is GREAT for us. The present situation however was that they were being sought after and brought things to table in a seemingly sellers market which could have fetched a little more, especially if dealt separately. Hindsight on this trade deadline should be a beaut.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I'm going to assume that if BWC hates the deal then it is probably a good deal.

I never said I hated deal

 

[hockeydoug]

Right before the trade you said we should trade Lafferty while his value was high and that you were fine trading McCabe as long as we got better than a 2nd. You have a puzzling dislike for Davidson.

I'm not sure what's puzzling, I don't like how he's tearing it down. Going for all picks for multiple years isn't going to work unless he gets the ping pong bounces the right way in the right draft years. The plan is more on Danny than KD imo. I don't think a full rapid tear down was the right call if it's all for picks.

Nuance is allowed, it's not binary. For example, one can want the Hawks to use capspace and then not like the Mrazek trade. In this case I want McCabe traded and Lafferty traded (and anybody now that Kane and Toews are gone) and still expect a certain type of return that isn't offset by a massive amount of time. Time diminishes value and it's not like there's some master plan to build this thing up.

Looking ahead, I want Domi and AA traded, but a 3rd and 4th is a waste of everyone's time at this point. The redundancy will diminish the value of the picks. Rockford will be clogged with picks (gms don't like giving up on their picks quickly) and the 6 million would have netted a better return on a bad contract. or could have been used to give Kane the right shooting LW he needs to be his best these days. So when/if Domi and AA are traded, I think the whole thing was a waste of TOI, capspace, real dollars, etc. if KD just flips them for 3rd/4th round pick type returns. Better to just keep one or both for continuity and eat the loss on the spend if he likes how they play rather than flip for redundant picks.

When one of KD's hires stand out as really good, or when he does anything that beats the return literally any average gm can get on a trade, I'll reconsider my opinion of him.

On that note, I think we can finally put to bed the idea that KD did anything on the Hagel trade, Brisebois sets the price on pieces he wants, if that NAS trade doesn't put the notion that KD did anything interesting in negotiating to bed, not sure what to say.

 

[hockeydoug]

KD literally said that he wanted later year picks for the potential ability to trade them. If anything, the takeaway from today is maybe he envisions turning the corner on the rebuild sooner than we thought.

I hope there's vision beyond puking up draft picks at multiple consecutive drafts.

We all know they need assets to rebuild, but all picks is going to be very wasteful when we look back on this thing in 7-8 years

 

[Northernhawk]

So from what I have been able to find the two cond.5ths going Toronto way are conditional in the sense the Leafs get the better of whatever 5th round picks the Hawks have for each year...2024 has Chicago owning their own and Calgary’s so Toronto will get the higher pick if the two...I believe in 2025 Chicago still has only its win pick...so far

 

[Chelios]

The amount of complaining on here over this deal is ridiculous, though not unexpected from certain people.

You guys do realize that with the number of picks we have over the next 3-4 years we literally cannot fit all these players under contract let alone on an NHL team, right? Spreading the picks out over multiple years, where we can have a better idea of how earlier picks are progressing and how the team in general is progressing, is not a bad idea. If you are upset about giving up 5th round picks when we have 12 top 2 round picks in the next 3 years (and counting) you need to give your head a shake.

 

[ColbyChaos]

So Chicago is on the 2030s plan. Great.

Is it even worth it to try explaining this?

 

[Kurtosis]

Is it even worth it to try explaining this?

“Why make a 401k contribution when I can have all the moneys now!”

 

[WindsorHawk]

The amount of complaining on here over this deal is ridiculous, though not unexpected from certain people.

You guys do realize that with the number of picks we have over the next 3-4 years we literally cannot fit all these players under contract let alone on an NHL team, right? Spreading the picks out over multiple years, where we can have a better idea of how earlier picks are progressing and how the team in general is progressing, is not a bad idea. If you are upset about giving up 5th round picks when we have 12 top 2 round picks in the next 3 years (and counting) you need to give your head a shake.

You do realize that not every pick gets signed and/or makes the big team right? That picks can be bundled for greater assets?? The arguments as to why the return felt light were laid out and it wasnt all about the two fifths.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

“Why make a 401k contribution when I can have all the moneys now!”

No no you don’t understand! Me want money now. Money now good. Money later bad.

 

[hawksfan50]

I woukd not complain against too many picks argument ..Hawks will need 22 new bodies (SethJones being the only survivor lining up from the current team by the time Hawks contendxzgain in 26/27 season...Build up tge pipeline ...hope you have a nucleus of 4-5actuals NHL stRs by then..

Not every draft picks makes it to real impact as top 6 forward or top 4 dnan..So keep on drafting and t rises to fill those key spots and if we get to surplus we cannot use Then teade rgexsurpkusxto add a vet piece who can put a contender over the ..top...

If Hawks get Brdardcitcsoiedscuo Ny te-build..Hexwill be in ourctop sixnextxsessob if we get hom.

Fantilli =provabkyv1 nirexseason at Michigan before leaving.

Michkov=have to wIt to 2026/27 season as Earliest ETA ...if he leaves Russia.

Carlsson
...probably also could lplayv in NHL in2023/24 but Hawks probably will suck anyway so why rush him withcakk tgat pressure.. Goodvpkayer but not Geberatjobal difference-maker.

Will Smith...probably 2 seasons in NCAAa after draft.

For everyone but Bedard they won't accekeratectgexre-bud....Ecen if we get Bedard they will only star a faster acceleration with tgevpitential of the Mathews sweepstakes in summer of 2024 forc20w4/2025 season.

 

[hawksrule]

I'm not sure what's puzzling, I don't like how he's tearing it down. Going for all picks for multiple years isn't going to work unless he gets the ping pong bounces the right way in the right draft years. The plan is more on Danny than KD imo. I don't think a full rapid tear down was the right call if it's all for picks.

Nuance is allowed, it's not binary. For example, one can want the Hawks to use capspace and then not like the Mrazek trade. In this case I want McCabe traded and Lafferty traded (and anybody now that Kane and Toews are gone) and still expect a certain type of return that isn't offset by a massive amount of time. Time diminishes value and it's not like there's some master plan to build this thing up.

Looking ahead, I want Domi and AA traded, but a 3rd and 4th is a waste of everyone's time at this point. The redundancy will diminish the value of the picks. Rockford will be clogged with picks (gms don't like giving up on their picks quickly) and the 6 million would have netted a better return on a bad contract. or could have been used to give Kane the right shooting LW he needs to be his best these days. So when/if Domi and AA are traded, I think the whole thing was a waste of TOI, capspace, real dollars, etc. if KD just flips them for 3rd/4th round pick type returns. Better to just keep one or both for continuity and eat the loss on the spend if he likes how they play rather than flip for redundant picks.

When one of KD's hires stand out as really good, or when he does anything that beats the return literally any average gm can get on a trade, I'll reconsider my opinion of him.

On that note, I think we can finally put to bed the idea that KD did anything on the Hagel trade, Brisebois sets the price on pieces he wants, if that NAS trade doesn't put the notion that KD did anything interesting in negotiating to bed, not sure what to say.

We weren’t going to get more than a 2nd for Lafferty. There’s no valid criticism of that aspect of the trade.

Literally moments before the trade you posted that you were good with dealing McCabe as long as we got better than a 2nd. We got a 1st. You may not like it in a time value of money sort of way, but the difference between what will likely be a very late ‘23 1st and a ‘25 1st is negligible, and the ‘25 1st may very well be more valuable if Matthews leaves. KD got the return you wanted, and your reaction was to suddenly hate it and claim “he did well to secure himself a future job with Toronto”. If you don’t like him because reasons that’s fine, but your argument is all over the place.

 

[BHFAN92]

Matthews, Nylander are both UFAs in 2024, the 2025 leafs are going to be different given all the other players they will sign/move. A first in 2025 is better than a first this year or next year where they are clearly going all in with their core.

so what prospects are coming out in 2025 that an end of round pick will be worth while on? I know 2023 is considered generational and 2024 has very high upside at top of draft..since you declared its better to have this 1st in 2025 please list end of the round prospects. I obviously completely disagree with your stance since KD took on 50% on McCabe and added Lafferty on top of giving away 2 draft picks I feel like it should have been at minimum the 2023 2nd rd pick and 2024 1st top protection.

 

[BHFAN92]

KD is a strategist.

He knows that next year's Leafs pick is going to be a late 1st.

But the further out you go, the more the odds increase of Leafs falling apart somewhat.

come on really? then why allow Toronto to add top 10 protection? KD isnt some master strategist he is not even a qualified GM. I am getting so annoyed with how this fanbase re-adjusts to every move like it was some amazing 4-d chess play when in reality KD got outworked once again. Has he won a couple of small trades- yes but in trades involving what should be major draft capital I would argue he has lost every damn one of them.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

come on really? then why allow Toronto to add top 10 protection? KD isnt some master strategist he is not even a qualified GM. I am getting so annoyed with how this fanbase re-adjusts to every move like it was some amazing 4-d chess play when in reality KD got outworked once again. Has he won a couple of small trades- yes but in trades involving what should be major draft capital I would argue he has lost every damn one of them.

We’ve already discussed this but you’ve decided to ignore it. If the Leafs are picking to 10 in 2025, then they’re picking top 10 in 2026. Because they’d be picking top 10 if Matthews and Nylander bolt, at which point they would just blow the team up.

So you’re arguing over semantics. And guaranteed you’ll forget about this protection by the time the draft pick actually rolls around

 

[Wally1112pac]

The leafs pick won't fall into the top 10 in '25.

That's just a safety net after what happened in the Florida/Giroux trade.

It has freaked GM's out a little bit so they are covering themselves.

 

[Putt Pirate]

So much salt for a couple guys that were just ….guys. We all want the rebuild to go as fast as possible but we are literally only one draft into it. Too early to be complaining about retains, protection. In a few years there will need to be a few FAs sprinkled into the equation to get us there. Yes, it would be nice to have a top shelf prospect included in these trades but these top teams probably have more value placed on the prospects than the picks for obvious reasons. I have not seen anything KD has done to be poor or franchise crippling like Bowman did. In fact quite the opposite. Let’s see what transpires the next 24 months or so then we can go about grading KD and the scout team.

 

[Hawkaholic]

come on really? then why allow Toronto to add top 10 protection? KD isnt some master strategist he is not even a qualified GM. I am getting so annoyed with how this fanbase re-adjusts to every move like it was some amazing 4-d chess play when in reality KD got outworked once again. Has he won a couple of small trades- yes but in trades involving what should be major draft capital I would argue he has lost every damn one of them.

it's ok to be wrong.

It's funny that people think just because we get a 2025 1st, that we will be 100% for sure making that pick and waiting 3+ years for the development of that pick. It is possible, that we trade that pick in a package for a really good young player (like a Timo Meier type) a couple years down the road if everything is going well. Can also move it for a 1st round pick in next years draft if our scouts really like a guy and another team wants to punt the pick down the road.

 

[ColbyChaos]

so what prospects are coming out in 2025 that an end of round pick will be worth while on? I know 2023 is considered generational and 2024 has very high upside at top of draft..since you declared its better to have this 1st in 2025 please list end of the round prospects. I obviously completely disagree with your stance since KD took on 50% on McCabe and added Lafferty on top of giving away 2 draft picks I feel like it should have been at minimum the 2023 2nd rd pick and 2024 1st top protection.

Now lets use critical thinking here. I already listed the Leafs have several big name players not limited to Matthews, Nylander, Samsonov that will need to be signed from now to 2024 (a season before the first rounder we have).

The leafs have 5 forwards signed to next year they will have to lose a decent amount of depth just this offseason alone with the 2024 offseason being a similar hit. The leafs will be a weaker team so just by that alone their first rounder that year. A first rounder in the 11-20 range with a leafs decline is better than a end of the line first rounder in 2024.

 

[hawksrule]

The TB-Tor series is going to be epic.

 

[WindsorHawk]

We’ve already discussed this but you’ve decided to ignore it. If the Leafs are picking to 10 in 2025, then they’re picking top 10 in 2026. Because they’d be picking top 10 if Matthews and Nylander bolt, at which point they would just blow the team up.

So you’re arguing over semantics. And guaranteed you’ll forget about this protection by the time the draft pick actually rolls around

Being bottom 10 one year does not mean that it will necessarily happen again 100% the next. That is ridiculous.

 

[BLKHKhockey]

For the guy's first year on the job he could be doing a lot worse.

 

[ploppsdman]

Is it even worth it to try explaining this?

Yes. Please explain condescending comments as I am new to the internet.

 

[BHFAN92]

Now lets use critical thinking here. I already listed the Leafs have several big name players not limited to Matthews, Nylander, Samsonov that will need to be signed from now to 2024 (a season before the first rounder we have).

The leafs have 5 forwards signed to next year they will have to lose a decent amount of depth just this offseason alone with the 2024 offseason being a similar hit. The leafs will be a weaker team so just by that alone their first rounder that year. A first rounder in the 11-20 range with a leafs decline is better than a end of the line first rounder in 2024.

you said an awful lot and didn't really say anything at all.. why don't you comprehend what I typed and reply to that instead of your word salad

 

[Hawkaholic]

Being bottom 10 one year does not mean that it will necessarily happen again 100% the next. That is ridiculous.

thinking they'll be bottom 10 in 2025 but not in 2026 is even more ridiculous.