McBackup the Very Good Backup

[Jozay]

They need to play him more.

31 games in and he's only played 5 games.

Lol @ people using wins to determine if a goalie is good or not.

 

[Mr Hockey]

They need to play him more.

31 games in and he's only played 5 games.

Lol @ people using wins to determine if a goalie is good or not.

I think he will get in more games in the 2nd half when teams go into tank mode.

 

[stickty111]

If the Leafs had lost last night, Babcock wouldn't have blamed Mac one little bit.

I dont think I have seen Babcock ever blame the goalie whether its Andy or Mac.

 

[Leaf of the Mind]

We learned Mac doesn't really need regular reps to have a hell of a game. If everything goes as planned I hope to see a lot of Mac at the end of the year, when we are resting guys.

 

[BayStreetBully]

They need to play him more.

31 games in and he's only played 5 games.

Lol @ people using wins to determine if a goalie is good or not.

A backup goalie doesn’t play enough games to give you a decent sample size to measure him by sv%. Further, backup goalies’ numbers tend to fluctuate wildly from year to year. One year .890, the next year .915, and back to .900 the next. That’s partly due to a small sample size of games they play each year, and partly because their abilities may be unreliable. Let’s face it. If a goalie had a consistent .920 sv% every year, he’d be a starter. I agree with looking at sv% for starters, but I’d rather my backup goalies just win.

 

[zeke]

I dont think I have seen Babcock ever blame the goalie whether its Andy or Mac.

i think he's called out Andy a few times for not being good enough.

 

[Mugzy97]

They need to play him more.

31 games in and he's only played 5 games.

Lol @ people using wins to determine if a goalie is good or not.

A few back-to-backs coming up to finish off this month so we'll see a bit more of him soon than we are used to I think

 

[stickty111]

i think he's called out Andy a few times for not being good enough.

Oh okay. Guess I missed it.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I have heard Babcock say Freddie should have made a save on goal, but never blame him for a loss, which he could have many times last year.

 

[DarkKnight]

I never understood all the consternation about the guy, all he's done is his job since we picked him up. He's a professional backup, can sit for long stretches and do the job. His career GAA isn't great, but he's scrappy and has stuck around the league for a reason. Maybe McBackup can give Freddie more of a break moving forward, most shots faced, most minutes played, that could catch up with him.

 

[Lauro]

No surprise, he was good last season for us and continues to do so.

 

[cannucky]

60 goalies have played more than 15 games combined this year and last.

Here's how the "backups" rank:

1.Dell: 31gms, .933sv%
2.Nilsson: 36gms, .922sv%
3.Raanta: 44gms, .921sv%
4.McElhinney: 26gms, .919sv%
5.Hutton: 37gms, .918sv%
6.Grubauer: 34gms, .916sv%
7.Saros: 27gms, .916sv%
8.Kuemper: 27gms, .914sv%
9.Condon: 51gms, .912sv%
10.Budaj: 65gms, .912sv%
11.Khudobin: 27gms, .912sv%
12.Reimer: 59gms, .911sv%
13.Kinkaid: 36gms, .910sv%
14.Bernier: 50gms, .910sv%
15.Greiss: 65gms, .908sv%
16.Korpisalo: 20gms, .906sv%
17.Ward: 69gms, .905sv%
18.Montoya: 23gms, .905sv%
19.Johnson: 47gms, .904sv%
20.Lehtonen: 69gms, .902sv%
21.Broissoit: 19gms, .901sv%
22.Mrazek: 60gms, .899sv%
23.Domingue: 38gms, .898sv%
24.Neuvirth: 36gms, .898sv%
25.Pavelec: 15gms, .893sv%
26.Lack: 24gms, .892sv%
27.Niemi: 45gms, .886sv%


hmm looks like I'm missing a few but still, pretty good for Mackilaney.

Hey I'm pretty sure you've been warned before . Don't go confusing their hate with facts and reality !

 

[Nithoniniel]

it takes 16 wins to hoist the cup, doesn't care how you get it

Why don't we judge any other player on that? Is Marleau the best player we have? He's got the most wins after all. Who cares how they came to be and how large of a role he had in them, right? Or what kind of player he is now?

I really just look for my backup to provide me wins so we don’t miss a beat while our starter rests.

The goaltender doesn't provide results. The team does. You are more likely to assess how much the goaltender can help you by looking at his performance than by how the team as a whole did.

one is winning, one is not. that's how the backup position is judged. i mean. at the end of the day that's what's important for the backup goalie. did you win? yes - okay did ya not, okay why not?

What's more important for any player? Winning. But that doesn't mean you would rather have Joel Edmundson than Erik Karlsson.

Bottom line, you acquire players to help you win. A goaltender who sucks but is bailed out by offense scoring half a dozen per game does not help you win. A goaltender who closes down the shop gives you a great chance to do it.

 

[Menzinger]

He’s defintely been fine with his time wth the Leafs (certainly not much to complain about) though Babcock seems to want to play his backup as little as possible. I’m not sure I’d put much faith in him if Andersen went down for an extended period of time.

I’d like to see one of the Marlies guys eventually get a game or two later on in the year to see more what we have with them.

Well so what?

A goalie can win a game while allowing 5 goals.

Backup goalies get thrown into bad situations. Theyre disposable. If he can win more games then he loses but has a terrible sv% why does it matter?

If a goalie has a terrible sv% during a win that’s more indicative that the team in spite of lousy goaltending rather than because of its goaltending.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why don't we judge any other player on that? Is Marleau the best player we have? He's got the most wins after all. Who cares how they came to be and how large of a role he had in them, right? Or what kind of player he is now?


The goaltender doesn't provide results. The team does. You are more likely to assess how much the goaltender can help you by looking at his performance than by how the team as a whole did.


What's more important for any player? Winning. But that doesn't mean you would rather have Joel Edmundson than Erik Karlsson.

Bottom line, you acquire players to help you win. A goaltender who sucks but is bailed out by offense scoring half a dozen per game does not help you win. A goaltender who closes down the shop gives you a great chance to do it.

because circumstances are different for each player. you know that
expectations are different for each type of player.
Super stars have an expectation that's different from middle men, which is different from the muckers etc. i don't expect a mucker to to go 50 in 50 nor do I expect an elite player to be mollified with 10points in their entire season. thus, i require my starter to be more consistent, where as I expect my backup goaltender to win and not have my starter to go in the net at all. i don't care HOW they get the win - as long as they get the win.

 

[Eb]

the amount of backtobacks we have is the amount of games mcelhinney will play

Disagree. Depending on our placement in the standings, Andersen will get some rest.

 

[Joey Hoser]

If wins are all that matters, let's bring back Raycroft, because then he's the best goalie we ever had.

 

[rent free]

Disagree. Depending on our placement in the standings, Andersen will get some rest.

possibly

 

[Menzinger]

because circumstances are different for each player. you know that
expectations are different for each type of player.
Super stars have an expectation that's different from middle men, which is different from the muckers etc. i don't expect a mucker to to go 50 in 50 nor do I expect an elite player to be mollified with 10points in their entire season. thus, i require my starter to be more consistent, where as I expect my backup goaltender to win and not have my starter to go in the net at all. i don't care HOW they get the win - as long as they get the win.

Here’s the thing though, process likely more relevant than end result when it comes to evaluating an individual player, even a goalie.

I mean, if a goalie plays like a complete sieve but his team still wins because their skaters score led like 6 goals, id hardly say the goalie deserves credit even though the team “won”. The goalie doesn’t get wins, the team does. We should expect our backup goaltender to stop an average number of pucks.

 

[rent free]

Why don't we judge any other player on that? Is Marleau the best player we have? He's got the most wins after all. Who cares how they came to be and how large of a role he had in them, right? Or what kind of player he is now?

no ones saying the goalie is the best player, but wins are the most important stat.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Here’s the thing though, process likely more relevant than end result when it comes to evaluating an individual player, even a goalie.

I mean, if a goalie plays like a complete sieve but his team still wins because their skaters score led like 6 goals, id hardly say the goalie deserves credit even though the team “won”. The goalie doesn’t get wins, the team does. We should expect our backup goaltender to stop an average number of pucks.

but at the end of the day, the important thing is, is that the goalie won.
it might be extreme, the example, i'l admit, but it's not like i'm saying something so far fetched that the backup should basically just be judged on wins that i'm bonkers to think that. sieve or not, if he can stop the last shot that should be the most important thing for the backup. did we win. yes. okay.

 

[Gallagbi]

but at the end of the day, the important thing is, is that the goalie won.
it might be extreme, the example, i'l admit, but it's not like i'm saying something so far fetched that the backup should basically just be judged on wins that i'm bonkers to think that. sieve or not, if he can stop the last shot that should be the most important thing for the backup. did we win. yes. okay.

Why not push for a backup who is capable of making more saves, and thus more wins?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why not push for a backup who is capable of making more saves, and thus more wins?

well the example was do you want a goalie who can make more saves but doesn't have wins, or one who can't make "saves" (but have more wins). to me, it makes no difference as long as they re capable of getting the win. and it basically stemmed from before, a lot of people here were mad that we signed McBackup becuse his numbers were trash. but he can win us the game. so what's more important. trashy numbers or the win/loss column for the backup? most in the industry (including goalie coaches etc) say wins.

 

[Gallagbi]

well the example was do you want a goalie who can make more saves but doesn't have wins, or one who can't make "saves" (but have more wins). to me, it makes no difference as long as they re capable of getting the win. and it basically stemmed from before, a lot of people here were mad that we signed McBackup becuse his numbers were trash. but he can win us the game. so what's more important. trashy numbers or the win/loss column for the backup? most in the industry (including goalie coaches etc) say wins.

I don't think it's a realistic example if you're assuming the team is the same.


Now if we sign someone as a UFA, I take the goalie with a higher save% over the guy with a winning record, since I'm expecting the team to drive that W-L record.

 

[Menzinger]

well the example was do you want a goalie who can make more saves but doesn't have wins, or one who can't make "saves" (but have more wins). to me, it makes no difference as long as they re capable of getting the win. and it basically stemmed from before, a lot of people here were mad that we signed McBackup becuse his numbers were trash. but he can win us the game. so what's more important. trashy numbers or the win/loss column for the backup? most in the industry (including goalie coaches etc) say wins.

I don’t think it’s an either-or situation though. The goalie who makes more saves should (in theory at least) be able to get more wins than the goalie.

Yes McBackup’s record is fine with the Leafs, but he’s also barely ever played which I think distorts any solid analysis of his performance.