May ISS Rankings Out

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by R S, May 15, 2011.

  1. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    WHat about NIKITA KUCHEROV? After what he did at the U-18's how is he not up there with the very best of this draft?

    Now there are issues with him like the KHL factor,maybe military duty as he is prt of the Central Red Army org-- but the ISS like other ranking orgs s supposed to rank on talent and projection --in terms of talent -wellnobody in this draft is a better shooter -this kid is llike Mike Bossy -extraordinary as a goal scorer-the shot and release are just exceptional -yet the kid also showed he was not just a 1-way cherry-picker -there was urgency in his game and he did check..

    SIZE issue? Well if they consider Grimaldi at #15 ,I can't see how once Kucherov puts some pounds on his 6'0 frame that it willbe a problem..

    So why the ommission from a clearly top-end talent? It boggles the mind.


    You either can snipe or not-this kid is the best sniper in the draft -an honest ranking puts him right up there with anything in thetop 5 - his ACTUAL selection may howver be only late first or 2nd -simply due to the KHL risk and perhaps military oligations -who knows when he'llbe 'free" to come over?

    He made a shambles of the U-18 scoring and goalscoring race -you cannot ignnore that in any honest ranking. He can skate..he can shoot.. and you sense he loves to play the game --so he should be right up there at the top of consideration on the ranking ---but on the risk of gettinbg him to come over and sign-well that is the decision GM's must be weighing...IF they can wait-if they can determine if the NHL is in this kid's dreams-then SOME astute GM could very well make this kid a higher pick than most mock drafters are projecting ...
     
  2. The Hulk

    The Hulk ....

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    I imagine you've seen him play tons of times seeing how you're being so judgmental.
     
  3. Analyzer*

    Analyzer* Guest

    What's that ? I fall in love with players and they rise ? **** off.
     
  4. arsmaster*

    arsmaster* Guest

    Kucherov was impressive, but I was more so impressed with the chances he was set-up with....Grigorenko was the engine and the reason IMO that Kucherov had so many easy goals.
    It seems Beaulieu, more so than any other player in this draft, has that you either LOVE him or hate him. There is no middle ground.

    I think he is a top 15 pick myself, I dont quite understand the hate.
     
  5. UvBnDatsyuked

    UvBnDatsyuked Registered User

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    Agree. That kind of ranking works only if a player is on such a cold streak they move themselves out of the top 30 or vice versa. Moving a player a spot or two here and there doesn't make sense. A GM isn't doing this.
     
  6. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    I agree with S E P H ....

    Beaulieu is a good player...but anyone who takes him top 15 is going to regret it.
     
  7. Michael Scofield

    Michael Scofield Registered User

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    That list isn't that great. All the Sea Dog players are ranked to low, Saad and Puempel are also too far down. I can understand the ISS drooling over Zibanejad for No.6 but he's not going above Huberdeau.
     
  8. boredmale

    boredmale Registered User Sponsor

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    Sort of funny how a couple of us pointed out Huberdeau's average past 2 playoffs rounds, then he goes and gets 2 points in the the clinging game last night.

    I am guessing the Memorial Cup will decide if he is drafted 2-3 or 4-6 range
     
  9. Qvist

    Qvist Registered User

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    An obvious answer suggests itself: Because he is already established as a great player (within his limitations) and his amazing U18 didn't do anything more than confirm it. While the guys who passed him removed question marks with strong play in the CHL playoffs or the U18, which made their projections rise. And with the size factor, that's enough to pass him. Fair or not.
     
  10. Nullus Reverentia

    Nullus Reverentia Hic Sunt Dracones

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    If he was 5'9 maybe there was a a size factor but affirming you're one of the best players at a tournement with some of the best players should at least keep you where you are instead of dropping you, Murphy was more impressive than Hamilton down the strech and others were highly regarded as well before the U18.

    It really doesn't make much sense. Murphys only gotten better and ISS keeps dropping him every month while others keep raising him up.
     
  11. xIsle

    xIsle Registered User

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    Huberdeau had the 1st star in 2 of the 6 game series. Don't just look at stats. :shakehead
     
  12. davebenj

    davebenj Registered User

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    You got that correct. Wasn't he considered one of the top prospects to come out of the draft in several years?
     
  13. Shaun

    Shaun Registered User

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    I would be ecstatic if the Bruins got Strome at 9 but I don't see him falling to us.
     
  14. S E P H

    S E P H @SEPH_WHL

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    Before the 2010-11 season he was hyped in the top 10 and being in the top 5 in some rankings. He has fall, but I think he's has good enough potential to be picked somewhere in the 20s (late first).
     
  15. The Flower

    The Flower Somebody hold me

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    Not too mention he scored the game tieing goal with 22 seconds left to send the match into OT in game #6 against Gatineau. Otherwise, Gatineau wins that games, forces a game #7, and who knows what happens.

    1st star selections and timely goals = steamrolling!
     
  16. AmericanDream

    AmericanDream Adopted Canadian

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    wayyyyyyy too much rising and falling off after one U18 tourney on this list. I can guarantee you that the majority of scouts and gm's do not base much on a single tournament like the U18. I am sure it will raise the stock of some and lower the stock of others, but the dramatic shifts in certain players rankins is borderline nuts off of this tournament.

    Erik Gudbranson had a horrible U18 tourney, yet he still went #3 overall last year, as did many other underperformers from team Canada (most went very high). I would not put too much weight on this list as it seems that it is a flavor of the month type deal.

    Tyler Biggs stands out at the 5 nation tournament and rises up like 40 spots, he then has an underwhelming U18 tourney stats wise and drops like 30 spots...seems very silly to me. Biggs scored a huge goal, made some of the tournaments biggest hits, and falls completely out of the top 30 because he didnt light the world on fire.

    Scouts have seen a lot of Biggs and others to know there are highs and lows, and I would be simply floored if Biggs did not go top 30 at this point.

    The opposite can be said with JT Miller. Miller had a ho-hum year stats wise, then breaks out and tears up the U18 and is now a top 15 pick on most scouting services list. Really? One tournament and now these guys drop or rise that much? I am all for slight decreases or raises due to a high profile tournament like this, but for whatever the reason this year just seems to be getting out of hand.

    Bottom line is the real scouts and gm's do not work like this. They have seen these kids many times (at least the majority of top US and Canada kids), and they try to not get too excited when they perform or to low when they dont. I used to be a firm believer that players that step up at the WJC or U18 tourneys get boosts in draft rankings, but it really isnt as big as ISS makes it out to be from previous years draft rankings...
     
  17. Leafidelity

    Leafidelity Leafs Fan

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    I'm really diggin our options at 25 and 27/28 if Rask, Musil, Rattie, Puempel, Phillips, Ritchie and Biggs are still around.

    Can't wait for the amalgamated list when all the final rankings are listed.
     
  18. ponder

    ponder Registered User

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    Indeed, if you read their comments and look at their rankings it seems like the main reason Biggs rose from 28th all the way to his peak at 6th overall was his good play at the 5 Nations tourney, and now the main reason he's fallen out of the 1st round is his mediocre play at the U18 WC. Sounds like they never watch him play in the USHL? Not that I do either, but I'm not a professional scout, and these rankings seem a bit schizophrenic/hard to take seriously.
     
  19. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    ISS probably has 12/top 13 correct (if slightly in a diferent order) --the only dispute being on KLEFBOM at #10 .....some NHL teams will gave him lower (13-19)
    some will have BEAULIEU higher than #14 (maybe 9-10) and some will have OLEKESIAK higher than the #21 ISS gives him (13-19) ...ALL 3 of these d-men should be top 20 but WHERE? Where they get picked affects a lot of the mid-part of the first round ...IF neither Klefbom or Beaulieu goes in the top 12 --THEN it means a forward or goalie (the latter unlikely) gets in the top 12 instead...THIS means that if all 3 D-men are in the 13-19 range and one of the forwards in the 13-19 ramge listed by ISS goes in the top 12 instead one needs to ask which of the teams drafting 13-19 want D-men? There would then be 5 D-men (4 per the ISS list and Olekesiak per my suggestion some teams have him in the teens) in the 13-19 range then:

    KLEFBOM,BEAULIEU, MURPHY ,BRODIN,OLEKESIAK --but you have forwards GRIMALDI,MILLER SCHEIFELE....so this means that likely if no NHL teams take KLEFBOM or Beaulieu top 12,that GRIMALDI --or some "wildcard" (KUCHEROV?) replaces Klefbom or Beaulieu in the top 12 ...assuminmg this is GRIMALDI ,
    that means 13-19 has 5 d-men and 2 forwards (MILLER and SCHEIFELE) for these 7 spots...

    So which 5 teams between 13-19 want d-men IF indeed GRIMADI is in the top 12 instead of KLEFBOM or Beaulieu in this scenario?


    13 CGY -no probably want a forward SCHEIFELE?
    14 DAL - probably grab Beaulieu if he is there
    15 NYR - probably want a forward (MILLER) ?
    16 BUF-- yes KLEFBOM or OLEKESIAK
    17 MTL--yes OLEKESIAK or KLEFBOM
    18 CHI - want a 2nd line centre -but if MILLER taken by NYR? Risk on KUCHEROV at RW as BPA wildcard? TAKE skill centre Kokhlachev?
    19 EDM (from L.A.) --yes MURPHY or BRODIN..


    The key then is what does NYR do at #15? IF they take MILLER then CHI's SHOULD BE "target" is gone so CHI must settle for some other forward.

    On the other hand MILLER projects not as a top line guy but a 2-way 2nd line centre -MAYBE NYR wants to shoot for the moon on a top line projected winger if there are no centres remaining they see as fitting a top line role -UNLESS they think Kokhlachev can do it withhis skill level ..


    IF NYR takes KOKHLACHEV or takes a winger instead at #15 (JENSEN? KUCHEROV?) then MILLER could be there at #18 for CHI...


    IF CGY takes MILLER instead of SCHEIFELE at #13 --then NYR may take SCheifele at #15 ...in that case CHI is back to settling for forwards not ranked in the top 19 by ISS ..


    OF course there COULD BE TRADES... CHI could try to move up to get their centre target ...IF NYR decides to move their pick to get some team's immediate aset help
    that changes the situation again.

    My point is that DAL,BUF and MTL probably will be looking to add D-men to the pipeline especially if those D-men are ranked higher or even about equal than most of the forwards remaining on the board...

    I doubt CHI will go D-man ....CHI could try trading up or down -i can see that possibility.
     
  20. ct2111

    ct2111 Registered User

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    Buffalo aside from BPA would select a center, no question about that. Even if they like a D more, they could trade down since they have enough D prospects. They have good prospects with realistic top 4 upside in Pysyk, McNabb, Schiestel and Brennan. They have some projects in Gauthier-Leduc and Crawford, enough prospects with bottom 4 upsides in Biega, Persson and MacKenzie. They don't have spots for all the prospects they have right now plus 5 of their 7 NHL d-men are 24 or under. They need a center prospect with scoring upside the worst way. Or they could go for some highly-skilled forward. But no, no D prospect.
     
  21. Nullus Reverentia

    Nullus Reverentia Hic Sunt Dracones

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    It wasn't just an underwhelming tournement for Biggs, he was downright a horrible at times, and invisable except for maybe a few players, notably the GWG and the huge hit on the German kid. Players can have underwhelming tournements and have it not affect them, but an awful, horrible tourement like Biggs had definitely will affect him. Every person who has commented on the U18, including many scouts have said this.

    Since Biggs had a tonne of questions to begin with, he may very well drop out of the top 30. Probably not since he's a safe pick, but it's definitely possible. ISS's rankings don't really matter now.
     
  22. rocketdan9

    rocketdan9 Registered User

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    I disagree with you. The players in this years draft are so evenly talented that a good/bad tourney or playoff run will help their stock from rising or dropping.

    JT Miller maybe had a bad coach, unskilled linemates etc. during the regular season but when he was put in an atmosphere and team that is closer to nhl level, he excelled.

    Biggs on the other hand confirmed his avg play during the year with an average U 18 tourney. How can scouts believe that he will be able to excel when he gets to the nhl then?

    Great players rise to the occasion. They don't rest for a playoffs run or one tourney. They are consistent performers. In the recent years more and more scouts are looking for this trait. Its not mainly about ideal nhl body size nor if you can lacrosse a goal in, but how you perform as the heat rises

    ISS did a good job with their updated list imo
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  23. Tatar

    Tatar Registered User

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    I'd say the top 6 are somewhat stable. Anything after that is anyone's guess.
     
  24. Howard35

    Howard35 Registered User

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    tell me about it man.. In my keeper league i had my eyes on three of these first rounders when they were 2/3rds... :(
     

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