Player Discussion Max Pacioretty - Part 6 Will he stay or will he go? Edition

[sampollock]

MB painted himself into a corner, and now he has 1 month or so to training camp, and we have a captain, that has been nailed in the press, and by the fans,

now what MB

 

[MaxDummy]

It’s done. It was last year. Why dwell on it and complain yet again that they have 8 million?! It’s no longer relevant because there was no one to spend it on. That’s my point. Besides, we aren’t ready to compete this year, so I wouldn’t want to see them waste the money. It makes sense.

2 words. Big. Picture.

Bergevin has shown time and time again he has no idea what the big picture is. Any time with him at the helm is wasted time.

You are trying to turn having that much cap space in a positive because he somehow didn't overpay for another Alzner. Standards are so low

 

[OldCraig71]

MB painted himself into a corner, and now he has 1 month or so to training camp, and we have a captain, that has been nailed in the press, and by the fans,

now what MB

Bergevin at training camp.
"Hi Max"

 

[ArtPeur]

Bergevin at training camp.
"Hi Max"

I heard they weren't talking to each other. One will probably have a plant in his hands to hide himself while the other will just ignore him

We will also see Allan Walsh requesting a trade on twitter

 

[OldCraig71]

I heard they weren't talking to each other. One will probably have a plant in his hands to hide himself while the other will just ignore him

We will also see Allan Walsh requesting a trade on twitter

The attitude rants were definitely directed at Max, this will not end well.

 

[yianik]

So you think after all the talk and negotiation since last years dead line, Bergevin is just going to give up and trade him for whatever he can get cause he don't want Patch to start the season with us? I'm not on this train. Bergevin is stubborn and I don't see it happening. I think Bergevin is willing to go to the last option and it's all the way to the 2019 trade deadline

Yes. I. Do.
Actually it is possible it happens during training camp , but I believe 100% before the start of the season. Likely to the Hawks.

 

[bobholly39]

I feel like I missed something. Everywhere on here i hear comments about how "Bergevin ruined his trade value by announcing to the world he won't resign him".

For all of his faults (and he has a lot) - one of the things Bergevin has done very well is always keeping his cards close to himself. Did I just miss this?

I remember a story broke from an insider at some point that there was a rumor that Habs weren't going to try and resign Pacioretty, and instead want to trade him.

Is that it? Or did Bergevin publicly announce it?

Because i'm having trouble understanding how that's Bergevin's fault if an insider reported something.

I'm not trying to defend him i'm just honestly curious - what did Bergevin do wrong here?

 

[Rapala]

It's sad to think just what kind of return we could have had with Patch if the Brass would have used the same spin effort hyping the player they use on their own terrible decisions. How come the mantra was never "We are desperately trying to re-sign him"
shining the light on his one very good two way year.
He did lead the league in +/- that year did he not?
I mean it's one thing for us fans to respond negatively but ever since MB took over it became okay to throw guys under the bus. Did Therrien influence him in that regard or were they both equally at fault? Needless to say the idea that MB was tight lipped and played his cards close to his chest has to be questioned.
GM's are reading him like a book and the wrong message is always front and center with regards to our best assets.

Good Job.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

It was a stupid report honestly.

Habs has tried to trade max to 170000 teams and suddenly we get breaking news that “Habs are trying to trade max!”

Wow, you don’t say?

If MB was willing to trade max without sign and trade it would be done. Like Erik Karlsson the team wants to keep them and wants a long term deal done.

So the trade has to please MB, other GM and Max’s salary demands. Makes it harder.

We’ll see how it plays out. I just wish things were simple but just another case of things never coming easy.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm still going to wait and see what happens before getting mad at Bergevin. Odds aren't in his favour, but I still think a gm could salvage the situation.

 

[The Great Weal]

Also, I don't recall Bergevin telling the entire world that he won't be resigning him, it seems like a rumour or speculation. I don't have a subscription to The Athletic so I may be wrong.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Well, first things first: Bergevin made sure Pacioretty lost all his playmaking support by getting rid of Subban, Markov and Radulov.

Whether it was a grand scheme to lower Pac's value to re-sign him cheap or just completely unintentional, Bergevin laid the ground work to lower yet another player's value.

It starts from there and then just becomes significantly worst.

 

[nhlfan9191]

As much of a moron as Bergevin is, the scenario hasn’t played out until he’s been traded and we’ve seen a return. Hard to evaluate something that hasn’t happened yet.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

No...all of this is wrong.



That's correct...in this particular instance, there have been quite a few stories on Pacioretty since the offseason began.

- leading up to the draft it was leaked the Habs and Pacioretty were negotiating an extension
- at the draft it was leaked that Pacioretty was traded to the Kings but it broke down cause they couldn't agree to an extension
- it was also leaked that he was also almost traded to the Isles
- it was then leaked that Bergevin told Pacioretty they weren't going to negotiate an extension and they were gonna trade him asap

ALL of these things were leaked...by who?

Who the hell knows.


Neither can I

You forgot San Jose. Negociations broke down there too, just after the deal fell through with LA.

 

[Sorinth]

Max is being offered around the league, so every GM already knew. That's not what is hurting his trade value. It's the position it puts Max in with the fans and media, that will highlight his struggles which reduce his trade value, it will make Max unhappy which will bleed into his on ice play which reduces his trade value.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Max is being offered around the league, so every GM already knew. That's not what is hurting his trade value. It's the position it puts Max in with the fans and media, that will highlight his struggles which reduce his trade value, it will make Max unhappy which will bleed into his on ice play which reduces his trade value.

This is why a deal needs to be done before the season in my opinion. Usually id say let him play and increase his trade value. And although that’s still very much a possibility, given our organization and market, there will be a lot of distractions that come with returning next season.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

August 1st 2018

Pacioretty still a habs

But Subban is gone!

 

[sandysan]

As much of a moron as Bergevin is, the scenario hasn’t played out until he’s been traded and we’ve seen a return. Hard to evaluate something that hasn’t happened yet.

if you happen to think ( as I do) that the days of getting our best return are behind us, then the longer it goes the worse the return. There is a very real possibility that, despite it being well known that 67 is available that we ride him all year and then let him walk for nothing, or take whatever some desperate team has to offer ( ala vanek).

Yes he could turn it around like the duchene deal, but max isnt a center and is an impending ufa and in order to get ANY deal of value to go through, you need max to either sign an extension or agree to sing one.

I don't know about the CBA but can the habs insist that for his new contract to be valid he has to sign with another team ? for example, could a team inquire about max and say we are down so long as he resigns for X and Y years. The habs offer this up and then the other team pulls the rug out and we get stuck with him ? this would obviously poison the well between the habs and team X, but in a sign and trade, can a tram walk way halfway through ?

I know you CANNOT promise something other than what is in the deal ( i.e sign a sweetheart deal now and we will make up up on the next one).

 

[nhlfan9191]

if you happen to think ( as I do) that the days of getting our best return are behind us, then the longer it goes the worse the return. There is a very real possibility that, despite it being well known that 67 is available that we ride him all year and then let him walk for nothing, or take whatever some desperate team has to offer ( ala vanek).

Yes he could turn it around like the duchene deal, but max isnt a center and is an impending ufa and in order to get ANY deal of value to go through, you need max to either sign an extension or agree to sing one.

I don't know about the CBA but can the habs insist that for his new contract to be valid he has to sign with another team ? for example, could a team inquire about max and say we are down so long as he resigns for X and Y years. The habs offer this up and then the other team pulls the rug out and we get stuck with him ? this would obviously poison the well between the habs and team X, but in a sign and trade, can a tram walk way halfway through ?

I know you CANNOT promise something other than what is in the deal ( i.e sign a sweetheart deal now and we will make up up on the next one).

I never said that. At all. I would’ve had him dealt December of 17 if I could. Trade deadline last season as latest. We missed out on that and that falls on Bergevin. But I need to see the return before I torch him for that. I got a million things I can cook Bergevin for, this isn’t one of them, yet.

 

[sandysan]

I never said that. At all. I would’ve had him dealt December of 17 if I could. Trade deadline last season as latest. We missed out on that and that falls on Bergevin. But I need to see the return before I torch him for that. I got a million things I can cook Bergevin for, this isn’t one of them, yet.

I didnt say you did, I said that if the return is trending downward, waiting and hoping that he can get as good a deal as he could have earlier doesn't make a lot of sense. yes he could turn it around he could reverse the current trajectory and get max to sign an extension to his liking to facilitate the trade, the very same extension he COULDN'T get him to sign at the draft. but if max wouldnt sign one then, he's unlikely to sign one now and a rental 67 has very very limited value.

Sakic played chicken and won, which lets a lot of people think that MB is playing the same sort of game.

I know matt duchene, matt duchene is a friend of mine, max pacioretty is no matt duchene.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I didnt say you did, I said that if the return is trending downward, waiting and hoping that he can get as good a deal as he could have earlier doesn't make a lot of sense. yes he could turn it around he could reverse the current trajectory and get max to sign an extension to his liking to facilitate the trade, the very same extension he COULDN'T get him to sign at the draft. but if max wouldnt sign one then, he's unlikely to sign one now and a rental 67 has very very limited value.

Sakic played chicken and won, which lets a lot of people think that MB is playing the same sort of game.

I know matt duchene, matt duchene is a friend of mine, max pacioretty is no matt duchene.

Rental 67 does have value. Only thing is as hard as it is to believe to some, he’ll be worth more as a rental during the season, assuming he performs of course, then he is right now. Teams get stupid on rentals when the season is on.

 

[sandysan]

Rental 67 does have value. Only thing is as hard as it is to believe to some, he’ll be worth more as a rental during the season, assuming he performs of course, then he is right now. Teams get stupid on rentals when the season is on.

yeah a team that is looking for a boost for the PLAYOFFS, that itch is only scratched by max paccioretty. because, hey, he's such a consistent player in the playoffs.

who wouldn't want him ?

 

[nhlfan9191]

yeah a team that is looking for a boost for the PLAYOFFS, that itch is only scratched by max paccioretty. because, hey, he's such a consistent player in the playoffs.

who wouldn't want him ?

Trust me. I’m on your side. I’m tired of his streaky scoring that results in nothing in the playoffs. But a team looking for scoring could bite out of desperation at the deadline and there’s lots of desperate teams at that time, more then in August. Like I said, I’m as anti-Bergevin as it gets so it’s not like I’m sticking up for him. But we have to see a return before we evaluate the outcome.

 

[habsfan909]

As much of a moron as Bergevin is, the scenario hasn’t played out until he’s been traded and we’ve seen a return. Hard to evaluate something that hasn’t happened yet.

I fully expect the Habs to lose the Max trade. My hopes are that they don't lose it by much. A win for MB would be losing the trade by just a little.
Of course when you look at Weber/Subban, Drouin/Sergachev, Domi/Chucky....
Well, we appear to be pretty fooked with what's to come.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I fully expect the Habs to lose the Max trade. My hopes are that they don't lose it by much. A win for MB would be losing the trade by just a little.
Of course when you look at Weber/Subban, Drouin/Sergachev, Domi/Chucky....
Well, we appear to be pretty fooked with what's to come.

What fan other then the Homer’s don’t expect him to lose the trade? Doesn’t change the fact we still don’t know the outcome.