Player Discussion Max Pacioretty -- Part 5

[hockeyfan2k18]

Funny how they elected to back Max and get rid of everyone else. Looks like that was another dumb decision.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Muzzin would have been a real good get for a team on the verge of contending.

I can’t believe it’s looking like Patch may return next season. Ugh.

 

[Price4Prez]

Be sick and tired all you want….who's responsability is it to build a team? Who's responsability is it to be proactive and to fix problems? Pacioretty's responsability is to play. It's not MB fault if Pacioretty is lazy or doesn't score. But everything else IS Bergevin's fault. It's his job. As of now, whatever happens behind the scene is that we paid Pacioretty who scored tons of goals at 4.5 per. And we are 1 year before his contract ends. So based on that Pacioretty and it's his right, to refuse whatever extension other teams are handing him. Which mean that we proably have to accept less for a guy who still has 1 year left to his contract and might want to test the market to make as much money as he can.

This is a business. On both ends. And that,s why I said that Pacioretty HAD to leave this team at the last TDL 'cause it would have meant for a team to have him for at least 2 playoffs. Giving us a better return. But nope...I heard how IN THE SUMMER, then we would have so much more. Which was obviously Bullcrap. So again, Bergevin is REACTING. And will be laughed at again. No idea why you can't blame, he proved NOTHING to you. And he has a history of being stupid.

So it is MBs fault that Pacioretty couldnt work out an extentsion with LA?? It is MBs fault that no team offered him a good enough deal to trade him last deadline... a time that you, Whitesnake, who has never,and will never be GM of a team, and more importantly have absolutely 0 inside info-deemed to be the best time to do so??

You arent even reasoning with any sort of logic.

If you as an employee refuse to accept a new contract with a new company because YOU, think you're worth more....it is your bosses fault you didnt sign it? Think a bit lol.

Patches is greedy because he knows he got screwed last contract. Plain and simple. MB is trying to get the most for a player that has 0 heart and gave up on his team and is just wanting to cash in,on a contract he will never be worth.

....but sure,keep beating that MB hate drum.

 

[jaffy27]

Funny how they elected to back Max and get rid of everyone else. Looks like that was another dumb decision.

Back Max??....

There was a deal in place to send him to LA......call it he way it is man!!

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Timing is everything. The way the Pacioretty saga is playing is just reinforcing the notion that Bergevin didn't move to trade him quick enough. Should have happened when the team was out of the playoffs two seasons ago and when he had term. Now, it's a crapshoot and the vultures will be circling.

The year he was made captain and was 27?

I mean...how much younger were we planning to go there. Seemed like a good piece to keep IMO.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Guys what happened to all the excess value that Max Pacioretty was supposed to have at the draft due to the fact that ''everyone would be bidding on him'' whereas only contenders would bid on him at the deadline?

 

[Ezpz]

Guys what happened to all the excess value that Max Pacioretty was supposed to have at the draft due to the fact that ''everyone would be bidding on him'' whereas only contenders would bid on him at the deadline?

Max declined to discuss extensions with other teams and tanked his own value. He will be be gone for sure with Walsh as his agent.

 

[417]

Muzzin would have been a real good get for a team on the verge of contending.

I can’t believe it’s looking like Patch may return next season. Ugh.

You really think there's a chance he comes back?

According to MacKenzie, this deal was done...Pacioretty and Kings couldn't agree on an extension.

Once you reach that bridge, I think it's too late to turn back.

I still think he's getting move...whether that's this week or next, he's gone

 

[417]

Guys what happened to all the excess value that Max Pacioretty was supposed to have at the draft due to the fact that ''everyone would be bidding on him'' whereas only contenders would bid on him at the deadline?

Well it would be nice to know what this deal with Kings would have looked like...

Furthermore, the draft wasn't a deadline to trade Max Pacioretty...the offseason hasn't even started.

 

[417]

Question now is -- how does Pacioretty come back as a Hab to start the season? Or will the dominos that fall after the UFA market, create an opening for him with a team that falls out of the UFA bidding? If there is such a team, who's to say Pacioretty will like them enough to engage in negotiations for an extension. It's a quagmire anyway you slice it.

If the cost to acquire him downspirals so much that the Habs would prefer keeping him, he'd have much better value at the TDL.

Easy...he doesn't.

You guys really think, in this market of Montreal Canadiens where there's always a fire burning, that they're going to deal with a Max Pacioretty who was nearly traded over the summer, return as team Captain and have to deal with that dark cloud hanging over the team everyday until he's either traded, re-signed or he walks away next summer?

It's not a question of "if"...it's a question of "when" and for "how much" at this point.

 

[HabsSlappy]

At this point, I fully expect the return for Pacioretty to be less than ideal. Bergevin overplayed his hand at the deadline and now he is paying for his mistake. As Whitesnake said, he should have been dealt two years ago when he had term. Worst thing that ever happened was naming hi captain, because it caused us to get too attached and couldn't maximize his value.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I have never liked the player Patch turned out to be after the Chara hit. But who could blame him, he got wrecked. Still, he found a way to become an impact player by being a perimeter sniper with good speed and size. MT used him in a way to maximize his potential really. We see that the way Julien wants to use him will never work for him because Julien wants a player who doesn't exist anymore and stopped existing when Chara ruined him. I used to respect that he had transformed himself and found a way to become an impact player anyway. But over the years his lack of grit and desire to carry and handle the puck, in combination with his no shows in the playoffs really turned me off on him as a player.

When he became captain, I knew it was a terrible choice. The guy was not cut out for it. I wanted to give Pacioretty a chance to show his first failure of a season as captain had taught him something and he would become a better captain in the future, but he's just who he is.

And now this whole thing where he makes a deal abort because he was too dumb to figure out something that he already should have known way in advance.... (Brisson is Bergie's friend, and Brisson would have the Tavares situation to deal with at the same time). This was all things he knew a year ago. But our dumb and fearless leader decided to act on it this weekend ? Jesus Pacioretty... thank you for making this deal abort and getting us stuck with you a while longer. It's not our fault you were dumb enough to accept that 4,5M deal years ago and now you're trying to recoup the money you lost. Regrettably GMs know exactly what you are worth on the ice.. I really wonder what deal he turned down.

But ultimately, this remains MB's fault. I was very vocal about wanting this garbage floater out the summer of 2016. We had a great opportunity to get value then. I would have traded Price too. But nope, Subban was the problem, apparently. I actually have nothing against the Weber-Subban trade. Package wise, I think both players bring about the same value to the table. The problem is that MB incorrectly assessed the team (again) and worked on fixing what was not broken, instead of fixing what was.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Muzzin - Pacioretty would have been such a perfect swap.

- Many available scoring wingers on the UFA market to fill the hole left vacant by Pacioretty's departure.
- An actual LD partner for Shea Weber that has size, puck moving skills and defensive acumen.
- Pushes back Petry to the 3rd spot, Alzner and Mete to 4th-5th spots, and Juulsen or the swarm of Bergevin Jr's to the 6th spot where they belong.

Instead we keep out pouty piece of shit, excuse of a captain on board and have no real option on the UFA market to play on the 1st pairing on the left.

Muzzin - Weber
Mete - Petry
Alzner - Juulsen

is actually not a bad group of Ds at all... Add a decent 1C, a correct 3C and a winger to replace Patches with the 20M available and we're actually not that pathetic as a team. But Captain Cow Mouth decided otherwise.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Why are people getting mad (and on a level where you guys should seek therapy tbh) at Pacioretty for wanting to get paid what he's worth...he's easily worth 7m+ if we're using Kane as a comparable, and he ****ing deserves it too.

Just not with the habs please.

It's a convergence of negatives.

- he didn't play well last season so it feels risky/awkward to crack the piggy

* if he had played like he can, all animous is sharply reduced

- the team didn't play well and the roster is short of dynamic young talent. Max is a trade asset, a chip to be moved to address that issue.

Bergy missed a prime opp to move him last season, and is now swimming upstream to make the move that must be made. If Max demands too much, the limited suitors will step back and pass, thus putting the situation at Square Zero.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

I have never liked the player Patch turned out to be after the Chara hit. But who could blame him, he got wrecked. Still, he found a way to become an impact player by being a perimeter sniper with good speed and size. MT used him in a way to maximize his potential really. We see that the way Julien wants to use him will never work for him because Julien wants a player who doesn't exist anymore and stopped existing when Chara ruined him. I used to respect that he had transformed himself and found a way to become an impact player anyway. But over the years his lack of grit and desire to carry and handle the puck, in combination with his no shows in the playoffs really turned me off on him as a player.

When he became captain, I knew it was a terrible choice. The guy was not cut out for it. I wanted to give Pacioretty a chance to show his first failure of a season as captain had taught him something and he would become a better captain in the future, but he's just who he is.

And now this whole thing where he makes a deal abort because he was too dumb to figure out something that he already should have known way in advance.... (Brisson is Bergie's friend, and Brisson would have the Tavares situation to deal with at the same time). This was all things he knew a year ago. But our dumb and fearless leader decided to act on it this weekend ? Jesus Pacioretty... thank you for making this deal abort and getting us stuck with you a while longer. It's not our fault you were dumb enough to accept that 4,5M deal years ago and now you're trying to recoup the money you lost. Regrettably GMs know exactly what you are worth on the ice.. I really wonder what deal he turned down.

But ultimately, this remains MB's fault. I was very vocal about wanting this garbage floater out the summer of 2016. We had a great opportunity to get value then. I would have traded Price too. But nope, Subban was the problem, apparently. I actually have nothing against the Weber-Subban trade. Package wise, I think both players bring about the same value to the table. The problem is that MB incorrectly assessed the team (again) and worked on fixing what was not broken, instead of fixing what was.

It's the 2017 playoffs that drove me over the edge. He had Radulov doing ALL the dirty work for him and failed to score a single f***ing goal against the beatable Rangers. Not only that, but this piece of shit pushed the ridiculous far enough to pout at Radulov not being back. Fans can be upset all they want. But the captain of a team who actually didn't do shit when put in favorable conditions with Radulov against a team that was ready to get beaten... acting the way he did.

Yeah. Lost all respect for him.

Mailloux is right on his case. He's the ultimate beta male.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

So it is MBs fault that Pacioretty couldnt work out an extentsion with LA?? It is MBs fault that no team offered him a good enough deal to trade him last deadline... a time that you, Whitesnake, who has never,and will never be GM of a team, and more importantly have absolutely 0 inside info-deemed to be the best time to do so??

You arent even reasoning with any sort of logic.

If you as an employee refuse to accept a new contract with a new company because YOU, think you're worth more....it is your bosses fault you didnt sign it? Think a bit lol.

Patches is greedy because he knows he got screwed last contract. Plain and simple. MB is trying to get the most for a player that has 0 heart and gave up on his team and is just wanting to cash in,on a contract he will never be worth.

....but sure,keep beating that MB hate drum.

Ultimately, it's MB's fault because he held unto an asset too long. It was obvious in the summer of 2016 we had to trade him. I said so on these very forums so don't tell me it's hindsight. He had good value back then. I wanted to trade Plekanec the summer he had one year left on his deal before we signed him 1 month into the season too. He also had good value then.

These are all things that a GM who thinks a bit ahead would have done. Such a GM would have realized we were going nowhere with these players who choke in the playoffs and that they had to be dealt before it became obvious to everyone that they weren't going to be worth the dumb contracts they would ask for.

Also, you ask if it's MB's fault if he didn't receive a good offer last deadline... I will say... last deadline was a year and a half too late to deal Pacioretty. And if you think 2016 was too early, then I say at least last summer he should have been dealt. But MB thought he had assembled an even better defense than before so he continued to hang unto Pacioretty pointlessly. Also, about last deadline, the rumors we heard was that MB was looking for a roster player.. so of course.. no teams in a playoffs hunt would trade roster players. That's not what deadline deals are for. MB probably had dumb expectations and thought he could get what he wanted this summer. But looks like Pacioretty's ultra predictable greediness will screw us over big time.

I defended MB a lot in the past. I'm not someone who will blindly follow the lynch mob. But this is 100% on him. The fact Pacioretty is a greedy idiot is also on Bergevin because Bergevin signed him to that deal, and he was the best positionned to see that whole situation come down the road. He's reacting way too late to it. And that's preciesely the problem, he's reacting to situations that happen as they happen instead of being ahead of them. You say that we have 0 inside info but you don't need inside info for certain basic common sense things. This is one of them. Again this summer, while no one is speaking of this but maybe a few posters here... we should be trading Byron. Pointless to hang unto him at this stage. I love Byron and find him very useful at 1M as a spark plug, PKer, 3rd line guy who can step on any line and jump start it. But that same player at 3-4M, who might already have given us his best years.... MB will hang on too long and we will regret it. The same as he's always done. Can't wait for the day that we have a GM who understands asset management and who doesn't fool himself that he can win the cup with crap rosters.

 

[Beezeral]

I just watched the vid. I get the sense that Friedman was sharing what he thinks may be happening based on some info he's gathered. Probably not enough info to say it as fact, but probably enough to make an educated guess.

I think a sign and trade makes a lot of sense for all sides. The team that trades for him is guaranteed he's there for the long term and in turn, Habs can get a bigger return. As an example, maybe with Max locked in for 6-7 years, Florida may be willing to give up Trocheck in the deal (who Habs were reportedly asking for at the deadline). With Barkov, Bjugstad, Borgstrom, McCann, and Heponiemi in the pipeline, Panthers may be more open to trading Trocheck to get the scoring winger help they need if they know Max is coming long term.

Trocheck just had a better season then Pacioretty has ever had. Why on earth would they trade him for Patches? He's younger, signed to a team friendly deal, and plays center instead of wing.

 

[calder candidate]

I’ m not sure Max screwed the negociation I think LA were able to land Kovalchuck without giving any asset while they were working on patch extension but since they share the agent basically patch got screwed by is agent

 

[Cole Caulifield]

The year he was made captain and was 27?

I mean...how much younger were we planning to go there. Seemed like a good piece to keep IMO.

1 year after he was made captain in 2016 is when I would have traded him when it became obvious it was kind of Subban versus him.

 

[justafan22]

So this sounds like a bad situation to me..... from friedman today

6. Sometime before Round 2, Montreal went to Max Pacioretty with a trade offer from the Kings. An extension was included. It was time-sensitive, because 2018 draft picks were included. Pacioretty said no, and switched agents to Allan Walsh. Can it be revived? Not sure. I do think the Kings considered adding two scorers, not stopping with Ilya Kovalchuk. But the issue is going to be Pacioretty’s next contract.
I do believe he would like to play in Los Angeles, but would also like to make up for what he left on the table with the Canadiens. LA can’t fit that. Pacioretty is upset and the Canadiens are upset, so even though word was they may keep him now, that’s going to be awkward if it happens. GM Marc Bergevin will revisit this, maybe depending on who misses their target on July 1.

 

[sharks9]

So this sounds like a bad situation to me..... from friedman today

Yep, I don't blame Pacioretty for wanting a good contract after being underpaid for 6 straight years, but it'll make it tough to trade him if he's holding out for something like 7M+

 

[justafan22]

Yep, I don't blame Pacioretty for wanting a good contract after being underpaid for 6 straight years, but it'll make it tough to trade him if he's holding out for something like 7M+

It's basically like the duchene situation from last year.

 

[417]

So this sounds like a bad situation to me..... from friedman today

All that really means is there's no way he's coming back.

But I think Pacioretty and his agent have to re-think their strategy, it's not up to the Habs or any perspective team he could be traded too, to provide reparations for how his first agent negotiated his contract.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

All that really means is there's no way he's coming back.

But I think Pacioretty and his agent have to re-think their strategy, it's not up to the Habs or any perspective team he could be traded too, to provide reparations for how his first agent negotiated his contract.

Brisson probably tried to explain this to Pacioretty already.... and Walsh was only too happy to swoop in and promise whatever to get a new client.

 

[417]

Brisson probably tried to explain this to Pacioretty already.... and Walsh was only too happy to swoop in and promise whatever to get a new client.

Maybe but if that's really what nixed the deal...it's not good for either party.

If Pacioretty really thinks the Habs or any other team are going to "make up" what he lost on his first deal, he's crazy.