Confirmed with Link: Max Pacioretty for 2019 2nd rd, Nick Suzuki, and Tomas Tatar - UPDATE: Pacioretty extends 7m x 4

[Vegan Knight]

Win now

This is excellent to hear because it means he has a clear direction. He chose which way he wanted to go and it's about sticking to that approach. Now that the Pacioretty move has been made he has to go all in for it.

 

[IceNeophyte]

We don't know what Tampa Bay, or the Penguins, or the Capitals are going to do either. That's why they play the game. Bottom line is that staff felt Patch is a better option than Tatar, and enough so that they should give up a future in Suzuki. I'm saying staff knows more than you, I, or anyone else here dissecting their moves.

 

[ChanceVegas]

Where do I say I would be a better GM?

How is it I can't question a decision without getting a comment like this that are unnecessary and just a personal thing?

We don't know what this team will do this year. There is a lot more uncertainty with us than with most NHL teams. That isn't some hot take. Neither is what McPhee thought he would get out of the team last year versus the season they ended up having.

No team ever knows what they will do. There are no guarantees here. I seriously doubt there is more uncertainty with this team than any other NHL team. Whether you make the playoffs or not, advance or not, is all a matter of a couple of puck bounces. No team is set in stone to make it to the playoffs. We were an extremely hard-working team that didn't just rely on talent. Honestly, I think that bodes very well for us in the future. I think we are better able to overcome the dips that will derail another team over the course of the long season.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Take care of Patches for us. Great person and great player

 

[Vegan Knight]

We don't know what Tampa Bay, or the Penguins, or the Capitals are going to do either. That's why they play the game. Bottom line is that staff felt Patch is a better option than Tatar, and enough so that they should give up a future in Suzuki. I'm saying staff knows more than you, I, or anyone else here dissecting their moves.

Statements of stuff like that is not the same. Every team has some uncertainty but we have more. A lot more. Neither the team nor our players have the track record to know what to expect like those other teams do. Playing the games was what I said was an option for us. Standing still with prime assets and seeing where we are before we made decisions.

Also, the team may have more information and knowledge but it isn't always right. This is the same GM who had a staff and more knowledge but thought that Erat was better for the team than Forsberg. Plenty of fans with less knowledge knew that was wrong. There are other examples, as well. This is not that situation but we can question what the best direction to take may be.

Regardless, we still need a better defense to compete. My main issue was that we were spending assets (and before the contract giving a 30 year old winger a long term deal) to upgrade our forwards when we need it on defense more in order to compete. My only issue with this move is if we don't address the defense also.

McPhee has seemingly made statements that we are in win now mode and that's good that he wants to commit in a direction. So commit to it, improve the defense too that still needs it and see how it goes. Don't go halfway with it, going from Tatar to Pacioretty alone doesn't get us close enough to being a top contending team.

 

[CupInSIX]

Pierre McGuire's take on the trade for both Montreal and Vegas
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-6...e-had-more-for-pacioretty-last-year-1.1170859

I don't usually agree with him but he's spot on with most of it (except for Suzuki being able to play in the NHL this year). It's worth a listen to IMO.

He makes a great point about Bossy and Hull. As good as they were, they had great playmaking centers.

 

[bleuetbio]

I don't usually agree with him but he's spot on with most of it (except for Suzuki being able to play in the NHL this year). It's worth a listen to IMO.

Is it a consensus here that Suzuki isnt NHL ready?

 

[CupInSIX]

Is it a consensus here that Suzuki isnt NHL ready?

Definitely. Though if he has a good preseason he could get a 5 game audition but he'd need to be isolated between 2 tougher forwards like Domi and Armia.

He needs a full season in the CHL plus the World Juniors.

 

[bleuetbio]

So the report received in Quebec that people in Vegas have expected to see Suzuki on wing on the top 6 this year is false?

 

[CupInSIX]

So the report received in Quebec that people in Vegas have expected to see Suzuki on wing on the top 6 this year is false?

I'd say so. If he made the club he'd be RW on the 3rd line. And based on his rookie camp, he wasn't ready for that spot. If it were to go to a rookie, it would go to Glass, who is head and shoulders ahead of him right now.

I doubt even Glass would crack the roster this year.

 

[willy702]

So the report received in Quebec that people in Vegas have expected to see Suzuki on wing on the top 6 this year is false?

LOL not a chance in you know what. With Glass in front of him he had no shot even without the trade. And Glass is unlikely to make the team as well. The Knights have better options in AHL than Suzuki at least for this season. And as much as the WJC could help, he probably wouldn't grow enough in the OHL this year to challenge for a top 6 spot next season. Not that you ever want to give up on a prospect but he was without question the one of the top 4 the Knights would give up as proven in the trade.

 

[willy702]

Statements of stuff like that is not the same. Every team has some uncertainty but we have more. A lot more. Neither the team nor our players have the track record to know what to expect like those other teams do. Playing the games was what I said was an option for us. Standing still with prime assets and seeing where we are before we made decisions.

Also, the team may have more information and knowledge but it isn't always right. This is the same GM who had a staff and more knowledge but thought that Erat was better for the team than Forsberg. Plenty of fans with less knowledge knew that was wrong. There are other examples, as well. This is not that situation but we can question what the best direction to take may be.

Regardless, we still need a better defense to compete. My main issue was that we were spending assets (and before the contract giving a 30 year old winger a long term deal) to upgrade our forwards when we need it on defense more in order to compete. My only issue with this move is if we don't address the defense also.

McPhee has seemingly made statements that we are in win now mode and that's good that he wants to commit in a direction. So commit to it, improve the defense too that still needs it and see how it goes. Don't go halfway with it, going from Tatar to Pacioretty alone doesn't get us close enough to being a top contending team.

Really Erat? If Erat still bothers you go pick another team to root for because you'll always bitch about McPhee. Go join the hordes in the main forum who can't stop talking ahout Erat. Jeez who even came close to the job McPhee did last year and yet all the main forum could argue is he could never be GM of the year because of Erat.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Really Erat? If Erat still bothers you go pick another team to root for because you'll always ***** about McPhee. Go join the hordes in the main forum who can't stop talking ahout Erat. Jeez who even came close to the job McPhee did last year and yet all the main forum could argue is he could never be GM of the year because of Erat.

You are the only aggressive, irrational one here. Telling people who they can and can't support (and glad you have taken on the role of kicking out members of the fanbase) and attempting to bully me like this for having an opinion. Almost everyone else who has disagreed with my concern has been pretty respectful except you.

None of what I said hinged on that trade, it was used as an argument that the GM's actions shouldn't be questioned at all because obviously he could never be wrong and no fan could have an opinion that differed and be right.

Any fan can question a move and even be right in their criticism, as almost everybody was about the Tatar trade being too much to give up in the first place.

It has even been reported that McPhee himself brought up the Erat trade to Bergevin during discussions for this very trade. He still thinks about it.

 

[bleuetbio]

Erat's trade cant fin comparable theses days anyway. Filip Forsberg was a top 3 prospect in his draft who felt out of top 10 for whatever reason.. Suzuki was basicly a late 1st rounders who raised all year long and finished his road at his best case scenario.

Anyway, I still be thrilled about Suzuki. Him and Thomas were my ride or die for the habs pick at the draft. But our organisation is becoming realy good at dying theses days.

It certainly a good thing for your organisation to add our captain. We'll be cursed for many years and Vegas was fan's favorite back to the begining of last playoff. I think you'll gain somes fans.

 

[LadyStanley]

Suzuki CAN play in the NHL this season. He WILL eventually play in the NHL. My hearing of McGuire's statement is more the latter than the former.

Whether he'll play more than 9 games in the NHL this season as a 19 year old is yet to be seen. (If he does not play in NHL, he'll be in CHL/OHL this season.)

Part of the question is what Montreal has RIGHT NOW and if Suzuki is among the best dozen players.

Is that the best for his development? Would Montreal keep him in NHL for promotional things moreso than his development? Montreal looking short term or long term with him?

 

[LadyStanley]

McPhee on NHL Tonight after Pacioretty trade

 

[LadyStanley]

Max Pacioretty trade sends clear message to the NHL: Vegas Golden Knights will look even better this season

National Post (Canada) on the trade and how Vegas improved

 

[BattleBorn]

Really Erat? If Erat still bothers you go pick another team to root for because you'll always ***** about McPhee. Go join the hordes in the main forum who can't stop talking ahout Erat. Jeez who even came close to the job McPhee did last year and yet all the main forum could argue is he could never be GM of the year because of Erat.

You are the only aggressive, irrational one here. Telling people who they can and can't support (and glad you have taken on the role of kicking out members of the fanbase) and attempting to bully me like this for having an opinion. Almost everyone else who has disagreed with my concern has been pretty respectful except you.

None of what I said hinged on that trade, it was used as an argument that the GM's actions shouldn't be questioned at all because obviously he could never be wrong and no fan could have an opinion that differed and be right.

Any fan can question a move and even be right in their criticism, as almost everybody was about the Tatar trade being too much to give up in the first place.

It has even been reported that McPhee himself brought up the Erat trade to Bergevin during discussions for this very trade. He still thinks about it.

Let's try to debate each other's point and not comment on the posters themselves. We've kept the place pretty chill since it's been around, and it would be great to keep that going.

On a personal note, the Erat stuff's expiration date passed a year or so ago, IMO. I'm not saying it's not something to get discussed, just that anyone that's paid the level of attention a Knights fan does should probably not have to go to Erat for things to complain about. Hell, we've got a Tatar trade that actually happened here recently. GMGM is well into "good" territory for his work here, as far as I'm concerned, but I get why some would disagree.

 

[HanSolo]

You are the only aggressive, irrational one here. Telling people who they can and can't support (and glad you have taken on the role of kicking out members of the fanbase) and attempting to bully me like this for having an opinion. Almost everyone else who has disagreed with my concern has been pretty respectful except you.

None of what I said hinged on that trade, it was used as an argument that the GM's actions shouldn't be questioned at all because obviously he could never be wrong and no fan could have an opinion that differed and be right.

Any fan can question a move and even be right in their criticism, as almost everybody was about the Tatar trade being too much to give up in the first place.

It has even been reported that McPhee himself brought up the Erat trade to Bergevin during discussions for this very trade. He still thinks about it.

Really Erat? If Erat still bothers you go pick another team to root for because you'll always ***** about McPhee. Go join the hordes in the main forum who can't stop talking ahout Erat. Jeez who even came close to the job McPhee did last year and yet all the main forum could argue is he could never be GM of the year because of Erat.

Okay let me just start with a mod warning:

Both of you simmer down, and (this goes for everyone) remember our site rules on respectful debate. Everyone is allowed to disagree but both of you are toeing the line on our guidelines to discourse. Having not crossed them completely I will allow the posts to stand given the substance of the disagreements on McPhee's position with this team and his recent transactions. They have relevance but enough making things personal. This sub for the entire first year+ of existence has been a model for proper debate behavior and until now things have been very respectful. Let's keep that going.

With that in mind, on a personal VGK fan level, I will address Willy directly. Keep in mind I'm not taking sides here as I do think VK is being a little over-critical of McPhee and does veer towards the hivemind of the main boards in the way they critique McPhee. However, VK is entitled to such an opinion. Part of being a fan does include apprehension over what your coach or GM may be doing. I know in my time as an Anaheim fan there were times I would curse the names Bob Murray and Randy Carlyle in a very brutal fashion. It's not because I was fed up with my team or because my allegiance was suspect, but because I wanted what was best for my team and I didn't think the men in charge were doing the best for my team. I, myself, have a hint of anxiety over McPhee's direction of this team. He could be doing great things but he is making commitments both in contract and in distribution of futures, that could harm the team going forward in the interest of winning now. And in all honesty, it's nice to think we're contenders but we just don't know to what degree the roster can replicate what they accomplished last year. McPhee is trying to sprint across ice that could be very thin right now. Sure it could work, and I'm staying positive that it will. But VK's apprehension certainly isn't proof of disloyalty and he's allowed to criticize if he wants. If you don't like seeing a more negative stance on things you can always put his posts on ignore.

 

[LadyStanley]

I am concerned with the $$ and length of some of the recent deals GMGM has signed.

With a 20+ year as a Sharks fan, I've had opportunities to study Lombardo and Wilson as GMs. The latter has been more successful IMHO. Wilson tries to have about 1/3rd of his contracts expire each year. And only top flight players get deals longer than five seasons. (Up until a couple of years ago, he'd never done a deal longer than five years with most three years and under. Now he's signed a handful to seven or eight year deals. That does concern me especially with injury concerns.)

Vegas Golden Knights - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Only six players signed longer than 3 seasons. (3F, 2D, 1G)

MAF is a great guy, but the $$ and term/length do concern me. MAF has an injury history (so might not be eligible to have his contract covered by league insurance as one of five contracts as designated by the team). And he's probably peaked in terms of performance. Will be 36 when contract expires.

Pacioretty is 29 and will be with team for five seasons. Hopefully among his most productive.

Smith, Marchessault, McNabb are all 27. So should be at/near their peak of performance during this contract.

Miller is 25, so hopefully he's signed to a good length as well.


Karlsson will be 26 and looking for a new/long/big contract when his current deal expires.

And who knows where Theodore will fit in $$/term.

Definitely something to watch and calculate.

 

[BattleBorn]

GMGM's had a few opportunities to screw up and go too long.

Stastny is perfect, term-wise.
I'd say Patches is pretty close to perfect, term-wise.
Marchessault is the right age for the right term.
We'll see how long WK gets next offseason, and Shea is another question.

He's got a fairly solid track record in Las Vegas of getting guys for slightly less money/term than most people expect. With the exception of Reaves, which still doesn't make much sense to me and it's really a major issue, I'd say he's done fairly well. Especially when you consider things like Shea and WK and not paying for UFA years too early.

 

[LadyStanley]

Fresh pages to write here


Sounds like noon PT presser

 

[willy702]

Okay let me just start with a mod warning:

Both of you simmer down, and (this goes for everyone) remember our site rules on respectful debate. Everyone is allowed to disagree but both of you are toeing the line on our guidelines to discourse. Having not crossed them completely I will allow the posts to stand given the substance of the disagreements on McPhee's position with this team and his recent transactions. They have relevance but enough making things personal. This sub for the entire first year+ of existence has been a model for proper debate behavior and until now things have been very respectful. Let's keep that going.

With that in mind, on a personal VGK fan level, I will address Willy directly. Keep in mind I'm not taking sides here as I do think VK is being a little over-critical of McPhee and does veer towards the hivemind of the main boards in the way they critique McPhee. However, VK is entitled to such an opinion. Part of being a fan does include apprehension over what your coach or GM may be doing. I know in my time as an Anaheim fan there were times I would curse the names Bob Murray and Randy Carlyle in a very brutal fashion. It's not because I was fed up with my team or because my allegiance was suspect, but because I wanted what was best for my team and I didn't think the men in charge were doing the best for my team. I, myself, have a hint of anxiety over McPhee's direction of this team. He could be doing great things but he is making commitments both in contract and in distribution of futures, that could harm the team going forward in the interest of winning now. And in all honesty, it's nice to think we're contenders but we just don't know to what degree the roster can replicate what they accomplished last year. McPhee is trying to sprint across ice that could be very thin right now. Sure it could work, and I'm staying positive that it will. But VK's apprehension certainly isn't proof of disloyalty and he's allowed to criticize if he wants. If you don't like seeing a more negative stance on things you can always put his posts on ignore.

Sorry for causing a stir. It won't happen anymore, I'll stop posting because this place seems to be for irrational everything is falling apart posters. Yes people are entitled to opinions, be nice if it wasn't friendly fire always coming down in the VGK forum but that's HF for you.

 

[HanSolo]

Sorry for causing a stir. It won't happen anymore, I'll stop posting because this place seems to be for irrational everything is falling apart posters. Yes people are entitled to opinions, be nice if it wasn't friendly fire always coming down in the VGK forum but that's HF for you.

Suit yourself, but I don't think VK is even saying everything is falling apart. Seems to me he views McPhee is being cavalier with our assets and being realistic about the team's chances. I don't understand why that's enough to drive you away. I mean if recent discourse is enough for you to jump ship, you haven't even seem how contentious and anxious other team boards get. What VK is posting is really quite tame by comparison. There's nothing wrong with having concerns about our defense. Hell, I have concerns about our defense as well. I don't think Karlsson is the answer, but certainly not having Theo signed, missing Schmidt, not having more dedicated shutdown defenders like McNabb is a problem leaving us hoping our offensive defensemen can develop a more well rounded game. I mean dude, we've got an awesome team and I love them to pieces but no team is perfect, and the GK just aren't. I don't think it's irrational to want certain areas of the roster to improve. There isn't one perfect NHL team in the league and I'm seriously struggling to identify the members of our community that think everything is falling apart. When you start seeing Montreal Canadiens fanbase levels of pessimism I think that is when you can make such a claim.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I think Pacioretty is a good fit for you guys. He doesn't drive the net like in his earlier years, but he's got a hell of a release and knows where to find soft spots to release his shot. Also good pker. He's not a good PP player, I hope for you guys that Gallant uses him accordingly.

You guys have a more direct style, a bit like when the habs were coached by Therrien, so that could fit Pacioretty well. When things don't go his way, he tends to pout, or at least he did here. The pressure got to him, but he'll be in a better situation in Vegas, so I think he'll handle it better.

In Montreal, he was a pathological slow starter, but he'd get hot by the end of November, and when I say hot, I mean scorching hot. When he's on, everything he shoots goes in. Last year he skated like he had a broken foot, but apparently he didn't take our GMs summer last year very well (as all of us) and tuned off.