Matthews vs Pastrnak vs Laine (aka Ovi light)

[Critical13]

These are all fair points. We're just going to have to wait and see if Pastrnak is still scoring goals at this level when either one of Marchand or Bergeron decline.

I am not sure that's a valid point, I think Marner is on that level. The 3rd wheel (Hyman right now) probably only affects a few goals a season.

The only reason I pick Matthews is that I think he can create goals, and can score by beating a goalie. I think Pasta is a little more reliant on having teammates or high danger chances, and I think that this is a less reliable method to score than pure shooting talent.

That's not a knock on Pasta, but I do think playing on a defensive juggernaut and with 2/3rds of Team Canada's best line does give him opportunities someone like Matthews or even Laine isn't used to.

Pasta's IQ and puck handling are elite, though, so maybe in the end it won't matter what's going around him. Pasta also is a more creative player, so if his goal scoring crashes, he can make up value by creating.

 

[danpantz]

You literally said goals per game was faulty.

And you literally used them as your soul argument to say "Anyone not voting Matthews is flat out wrong." But now you care when they get used.

 

[Advanced stats]

And you literally used them as your soul argument to say "Anyone not voting Matthews is flat out wrong." But now you care when they get used.

Well it does indicate the best goal scorer, especially given how big the gap is with goals/game
If you want to use goals per game now, wouldn't it make sense to go back more than 3 seasons to get a bigger sample size?

 

[Critical13]

And you literally used them as your soul argument to say "Anyone not voting Matthews is flat out wrong." But now you care when they get used.

I think GPG is not fine measurement, but I do think it requires a large sample size to be relevant, especially with our wonky schedule this year. It's one of the reasons I am not too overly excited about Matthews totals this year so far.

 

[Lemontree]

Voted Matthews as I see him slightly ahead of Pasternak as of right now. I think Laine is the clear #3 in the group as of right now as Laine has struggled with constancy more so than the other 2 at this point in their careers. That being said, Laine is also a goal scoring machine and shouldn't surprise anyone if he narrows the gap on the other 2 as early as this season.

Full Disclosure: I am a Leafs fan, I do believe Matthews will be the premier goal scorer in the league for the next few seasons (assumes good health). I also believe that Pasternak and Laine could win the Rocket in any given year.

 

[danpantz]

Well it does indicate the best goal scorer.

And IMO I'd rather use recent stats then use games where a kid was playing 3rd and 4th line minutes with the likes of reilly smith and matt belesky to judge his goal scoring 6 years later coming off a Rocket.

 

[Dache]

Career:
Matthews .58 Goals/game
Pasternak .47 goals/game
Laine .46 goals/game.



Anyone not voting Matthews is flat out wrong.

I’m not saying Matthews is incorrect, but what does this have to do with the question? Who WILL be the best goal scorer?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Sure, let's eliminate data to suit the player.

Is there a reason you didn't show the numbers with the first 2 seasons eliminated?
I did do it, and I can tell you Matthews wins handily.
Want something mindblowing? Eliminate Matthews first 2 seasons and see how scewed the numbers are

The data is irrelevant to who the players are today. Pastrnak's first two seasons are clearly outliers....

Post those numbers with only the last few seasons. I am curious. No need to take it personally, I imagine it is Ovechkin, Matthews, and Pastrnak as we all agree are the top three.

 

[Advanced stats]

I’m not saying Matthews is incorrect, but what does this have to do with the question? Who WILL be the best goal scorer?

Id say the guy with the highest goals per game has the best chance to be the best goalscorer,no?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

These are all fair points. We're just going to have to wait and see if Pastrnak is still scoring goals at this level when either one of Marchand or Bergeron decline.

Matthews has played in an uptempo offensive system with players like Marner and Tavares on his team, no?

Hard to play the quality of team angle. Pastrnak is playing with two linemates who also are a shutdown line themselves!

 

[Dache]

Id say the guy with the highest goals per game has the best chance to be the best goalscorer,no?

Sure. That’s fair. Doesn’t make anyone else “flat out wrong”

 

[LeafsNation75]

Matthews has played in an uptempo offensive system with players like Marner and Tavares on his team, no?

Hard to play the quality of team angle. Pastrnak is playing with two linemates who also are a shutdown line themselves!

It wasn't until the 2018-19 Season when Matthews got to play with Tavares and Marner, however that time it was only on the power play.

After Sheldon Keefe took over from Mike Babcock is when he put Matthews and Marner together on a line at 5v5.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’m not saying Matthews is incorrect, but what does this have to do with the question? Who WILL be the best goal scorer?

Including career goals per game in a discussion where one of those players didn't immediately come in and thrive to determine who *now that they're at their best* will score more is about as accurate as including Thornton's rookie season along with his 100+ point seasons to try and predict what he'd do in his prime.

 

[34]

I’m not saying Matthews is incorrect, but what does this have to do with the question? Who WILL be the best goal scorer?

The BEST goal scorer is Matthews and will be going forward. That is as clear as water.

Toronto hater or not. The guy is a sniper.

 

[Dache]

The BEST goal scorer is Matthews and will be going forward. That is as clear as water.

Toronto hater or not. The guy is a sniper.

Oh god, the Toronto hater stuff is back. Are you going to finally be the one that can show me a single post where I hate in leaf players?

 

[34]

Oh god, the Toronto hater stuff is back. Are you going to finally be the one that can show me a single post where I hate in leaf players?

I don’t know how you are still fighting against Matthews. Look at what he has done since entering the NHL. The guy scores a lot of goals. Why do you hate him so much?

Is this because you hate the Leafs?

 

[Dache]

I don’t know how you are still fighting against Matthews. Look at what he has done since entering the NHL. The guy scores a lot of goals. Why do you hate him so much?

Is this because you hate the Leafs?

What have I said I’m fighting? I actually agree that at this moment he is the best. But all this “anyone that disagrees is flat out wrong” nonsense is bullshit. There are a few other players that with a hot 5-10 game stretch can make just as good of a case. And if you’re calling me a Matthews or leaf hater then prove it, shouldn’t be hard if that’s all I do right? Or are you going to just run away like all the other times you’re proven wrong?

 

[34]

What have I said I’m fighting? I actually agree that at this moment he is the best. But all this “anyone that disagrees is flat out wrong” nonsense is bullshit. There are a few other players that with a hot 5-10 game stretch can make just as good of a case. And if you’re calling me a Matthews or leaf hater then prove it, shouldn’t be hard if that’s all I do right? Or are you going to just run away like all the other times you’re proven wrong?

LOL, I don’t run away.


All is good. I don’t care if you hate the Leafs or not. Who is your team anyway?

 

[Dache]

LOL, I don’t run away.


All is good. I don’t care if you hate the Leafs or not. Who is your team anyway?

So you call me a hater again, then refuse to back it up at all, then LOL? God some of you guys are children.

 

[34]

So you call me a hater again, then refuse to back it up at all, then LOL? God some of you guys are children.

Who is your team!

 

[Dache]

Who is your team!

The jets.

 

[34]

The jets.

Wow, I just went through 10 pages of your posts on here, and every single post is about Matthews, Marner or the Leafs. Wow! Unreal.

 

[Dache]

Wow, I just went through 10 pages of your posts on here, and every single post is about Matthews, Marner or the Leafs. Wow! Unreal.

And still managed not to find a single hateful one? That is unreal. Seems like you’re more obsessed with me. Also you’re completely lying.

 

[34]

And still managed not to find a single hateful one? That is unreal.

You are a Leaf hater. You are obsessed.


At least I have the balls to say I hate a team or player. I am not perfect but I ain’t a coward. I am done here.

 

[Dache]

You are a Leaf hater. You are obsessed.


At least I have the balls to say I hate a team or player. I am not perfect but I ain’t a coward. I am done here.

First off you’re lying about 10 pages, second, if I’m a hater it should be real easy to prove. Or just keep running like usual. LOL