Matthews is averaging 30 ESG in his first two seasons (28/30 this year)

[Michel Beauchamp]

Just totally ignore the games played column why don't you.

He's 28th in points/game at 0.95.

Leader has 1.34, 41.1% more.

Last season: 34th at 0.84.

Leader had 1.22, 45.2% more.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Can we stop with this myth Leaf fans think Matthews is better than Mcdavid? They do not.
The Leafs are much better than the Oilers however.

The good old "My dad is better..." argument.

A bit juvenile, don't you think ?

 

[Incognito]

He's 28th in points/game at 0.95.

Leader has 1.34, 41.1% more.

Last season: 34th at 0.84.

Leader had 1.22, 45.2% more.

Ok? The poster I was responding to was trying to make it sound like Matthews was the 82nd best player in the league right now, because he's 82nd in points. The point I was making to him was that this is an extremely disingenuous way of representing things given that Matthews has missed a lot of time due to injuries this season. I don't see how anything you've posted changes what I've said. I never claimed that Matthews was one of the best players in the league at the moment (though he certainly has the potential to be among the best in the near the future). I said he's elite/franchise level, and the numbers clearly support that.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Ok? The poster I was responding to was trying to make it sound like Matthews was the 82nd best player in the league right now, because he's 82nd in points. The point I was making to him was that this is an extremely disingenuous way of representing things given that Matthews has missed a lot of time due to injuries this season. I don't see how anything you've posted changes what I've said. I never claimed that Matthews was one of the best players in the league at the moment (though he certainly has the potential to be among the best in the near the future). I said he's elite/franchise level, and the numbers clearly support that.

I repeat: Leader last year had 45.2% more ppg.

Leader this year has 41.1% more ppg.

He's a great goal scorer.

But let's not debase the elite/franchise label more than it has been debased.

 

[Incognito]

I repeat: Leader last year had 45.2% more ppg.

Leader this year has 41.1% more ppg.

He's a great goal scorer.

But let's not debase the elite/franchise label more than it has been debased.

Calling a player who scores at a 43 goal, 78 point pace franchise level really isn't debasing the label. There are many other players with similar statistics that frequently get labelled as such. Calling him generational (which some people unfortunately do) would be ridiculous and clearly debasing. But what else would you call him if not an elite/franchise player?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Leafs fans: "We DONT CARE what you think of Matthews, now then let us trying to convince you he's on McDavid's level."

He's closer to McDavid's level than McDavid has proven to be to the three generational talents. He may get there yet but save one, those guys had already separated themselves. Tick tock Connor, tick tock.

To give you an idea, using last year (lower production year compared to this year) as the measuring post (since it is complete and we know the output), to display the dominance against his peers that the three generational players did, Connor needs to be netting 60+ goals and 90+ assists.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Calling a player who scores at a 43 goal, 78 point pace franchise level really isn't debasing the label. There are many other players with similar statistics that frequently get labelled as such. Calling him generational (which some people unfortunately do) would be ridiculous and clearly debasing. But what else would you call him if not an elite/franchise player?

The fact that they are does not establish that they should be.

They might be in the upper tier of very good, but a notch or two below elite/franchise.

I've been following hockey for a bit more than 50 years (1. That proves nothing 2. Yes I've seen the Leafs win the Cup in the spring before the glorious summer of Expo 67), and I've seen my share of generational, elite/franchise players.

 

[Apotheosis]

For what it's worth, if you assume his pace stayed the same but he had similar production to Marner has on the PP on that same PP (which is much better than the one Matthews is on) he would be a 90-100 point player based on that. (0.95 PPG = to 78 points over a full season with minimal PP points. Marner has 26 PP points, which even half of that would catapult Matthews points).

EDIT: For argumentations sake, if he had the same PP production from last year, his 78 point pace because 92 over a full season.

 

[zeke]

Matthews (and willy) was elite on the PP last year, and they're both ice.cold this year.

it's just unlucky small sample size variation.

his PP scoring will come back in line soon enough.

 

[zeke]

And Matthess is top 5 in ES pts/60. in his 2nd year. As an elite quality of competition center. as a 20yr old sophomore. The third best primary points per 60 at even strength in the league over his first two seasons.

He's generational. deal with it.

 

[NyQuil]

And Matthess is top 5 in ES pts/60. in his 2nd year. As an elite quality of competition center. as a 20yr old sophomore. The third best primary points per 60 at even strength in the league over his first two seasons.

He's generational. deal with it.

top fulltime center ppg, last 2yrs:

1.McDavid 1.27
2.Malkin 1.21
3.Crosby 1.14
4.Stamkos 1.14
5.Getzlaf 1.04
6.Scheifele 1.04
7.Barzal 0.99
8.Backstrom .96
9.MacKinnon .96
10.Tavares .94
11.Barkov .93
12.Eichel .93
13.Kopitar .92
14.Seguin .91
15.Matthews .88

 

[North Cole]

Draisaitl on Matthews's level. Crazy

icoming angry Leafs fans to call me a moron.

I edited my post, but in case you missed it, here it is again, nice and clear for you.

A JokE

It was a tongue in cheek comment, obviously Auston isn't on Connor's level. No one is.

In case you missed it, nice and clear for you:

his was also a tongue in cheek comment, obviously Leon isn't Autson's level.

 

[jetsforever]

Very impressive stat - I'm surprised such a high number of his goals come at even strength

 

[Bedards Dad]

top fulltime center ppg, last 2yrs:

1.McDavid 1.27
2.Malkin 1.21
3.Crosby 1.14
4.Stamkos 1.14
5.Getzlaf 1.04
6.Scheifele 1.04
7.Barzal 0.99
8.Backstrom .96
9.MacKinnon .96
10.Tavares .94
11.Barkov .93
12.Eichel .93
13.Kopitar .92
14.Seguin .91
15.Matthews .88

You may want to check out G/60. My not be as enjoyable.

 

[Laineux]

Matthews (and willy) was elite on the PP last year, and they're both ice.cold this year.

it's just unlucky small sample size variation.

his PP scoring will come back in line soon enough.

It will, but his ES production will drop at the same time as his oish% is unsustainable. Those should even out a bit.

I see ice time as the biggest potential for increase in Matthews' production. Don't see why he couldn't score 50 goals 90+ points next year if he gets deployed like offensive superstars.

 

[loyaltotheend]

I know there is no way he can reach a PPG when he's only at .95 now ...

If you guys could just stop responding to the obvious troll jobs that'd be great.

It's ruined the main boards. Can't have a simple discussion. Some non-Leaf, non-oiler fan just couldn't help himself and had to bring up McDavid in this one.

The congrats thread on McDavid breaking 100 again featured everyone including Leafs just sayin congrats until gloating Oilers fans took shots at Matthews... out comes the stupid responses.

If you want to discuss Matthews, go nuts! Just leave McDavid/Laine/Eichel out of it. And vice versa. Grow up!

 

[93LEAFS]

top fulltime center ppg, last 2yrs:

1.McDavid 1.27 (2016-17: 21:08, 2017-18: 21:32)
2.Malkin 1.21 (2016-17: 18:37, 2017-18: 18:55)
3.Crosby 1.14 (2016-17: 19:53, 2017-18: 20:40)
4.Stamkos 1.14 (2016-17: 17:53, 2017-18: 19:01)
5.Getzlaf 1.04 (2016-17: 21:04, 2017-18: 21:16)
6.Scheifele 1.04 (2016-17: 20:34, 2017-18: 20:52)
7.Barzal 0.99 (2017-18: 17:42)
8.Backstrom .96 (2016-17: 18:16, 2017-18: 19:39)
9.MacKinnon .96 (2016-17: 19:57 , 2017-18: 19:48)
10.Tavares .94 (2016-17: 20:25 , 2017-18: 20:00)
11.Barkov .93 (2016-17: 19:24, 2017-18: 22:14)
12.Eichel .93 (2016-17: 19:55, 2017-18: 20:05)
13.Kopitar .92 (2016-17: 20:46, 2017-18: 22:06)
14.Seguin .91 (2016-17: 18:28, 2017-18: 20:53)
15.Matthews .88 (2016-17: 17:38 , 2017-18: 18:15)

How about I put their average ice-time in brackets for each season.

Lets also ignore, Matthews leads them in 5v5 goals, is third in primary points at 5v5, is 5th in total points at 5v5, is 4th in total goals, is 7th in total primary points, is 5th in Primary points per 60, 8th in total points per 60, 2nd in goals per 60. Then factor in he gets by far the least PP minutes per game (while most play more for PPs that are significantly worse, outside of Pitt the last 2 years) and that the only people on that list to play over a minute a game shorthanded both years are Barkov, Kopitar, and Getzlaf.

Here is the list of them that played over 3 minutes per game on the PP in 2016/17: Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Seguin, Scheifele, Getzlaf, Backstrom, McDavid, Kopitar and Stamkos. Eichel had 2:59. Matthews had the least time on the PP per game unless you count Barzal and his 2 games. MacKinnon was the 2nd lowest still getting 20 more seconds of PP time per game.

This year, here is the same list for the PP. Over 3 minutes, MacKinnon, Eichel, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Backstrom, Barkov, Seguin, Tavares, Barzal, and Scheifele. McDavid and Kopitar are both above 2:50. Getzlaf has all of 2:49. Matthews gets all of 2:08, on his teams 2nd unit.

But, yes, let's just look at PPG as the be all and end all, and ignore context. In the one thing they all get close to the same amount of ice-time at, Matthews is the best goal scorer, and a top 5 point producer. I wonder what would happen if Matthews got MacKinnon's extra 1:20 seconds on the PP this year. Also realize, all those PP's have been worse than the Leafs outside of Tampa and Pitt.

 

[Braunbaer]

Do you average one whiny post per each of those threads?

No, but think it's strange you guys need to open a thread after each goal he scored.
What's next? "He averages 30.5 EVG over 2 years" after his next goal?

 

[bionic]

How about I put their average ice-time in brackets for each season.

Lets also ignore, Matthews leads them in 5v5 goals, is third in primary points at 5v5, is 5th in total points at 5v5, is 4th in total goals, is 7th in total primary points, is 5th in Primary points per 60, 8th in total points per 60, 2nd in goals per 60. Then factor in he gets by far the least PP minutes per game (while most play more for PPs that are significantly worse, outside of Pitt the last 2 years) and that the only people on that list to play over a minute a game shorthanded both years are Barkov, Kopitar, and Getzlaf.

Here is the list of them that played over 3 minutes per game on the PP in 2016/17: Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Seguin, Scheifele, Getzlaf, Backstrom, McDavid, Kopitar and Stamkos. Eichel had 2:59. Matthews had the least time on the PP per game unless you count Barzal and his 2 games. MacKinnon was the 2nd lowest still getting 20 more seconds of PP time per game.

This year, here is the same list for the PP. Over 3 minutes, MacKinnon, Eichel, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Backstrom, Barkov, Seguin, Tavares, Barzal, and Scheifele. McDavid and Kopitar are both above 2:50. Getzlaf has all of 2:49. Matthews gets all of 2:08, on his teams 2nd unit.

But, yes, let's just look at PPG as the be all and end all, and ignore context. In the one thing they all get close to the same amount of ice-time at, Matthews is the best goal scorer, and a top 5 point producer. I wonder what would happen if Matthews got MacKinnon's extra 1:20 seconds on the PP this year. Also realize, all those PP's have been worse than the Leafs outside of Tampa and Pitt.

Damn that's a good post. Well done. Can't see how you can argue against it.

 

[Skolman]

What a player. He'll challenge Laine for the Rocket every year AND will challenge McDavid for Art several times when at his best.

I've seen nothing from Matthews to suggest he will challenge McDavid for an Art Ross. Heck, hit PPG first please

 

[Skolman]

And some people have the stones to say that he's not a genrational player... smh

Because he's not, and it's not even close

 

[NyQuil]

How about I put their average ice-time in brackets for each season.

Lets also ignore, Matthews leads them in 5v5 goals, is third in primary points at 5v5, is 5th in total points at 5v5, is 4th in total goals, is 7th in total primary points, is 5th in Primary points per 60, 8th in total points per 60, 2nd in goals per 60. Then factor in he gets by far the least PP minutes per game (while most play more for PPs that are significantly worse, outside of Pitt the last 2 years) and that the only people on that list to play over a minute a game shorthanded both years are Barkov, Kopitar, and Getzlaf.

Here is the list of them that played over 3 minutes per game on the PP in 2016/17: Malkin, Crosby, Tavares, Seguin, Scheifele, Getzlaf, Backstrom, McDavid, Kopitar and Stamkos. Eichel had 2:59. Matthews had the least time on the PP per game unless you count Barzal and his 2 games. MacKinnon was the 2nd lowest still getting 20 more seconds of PP time per game.

This year, here is the same list for the PP. Over 3 minutes, MacKinnon, Eichel, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Backstrom, Barkov, Seguin, Tavares, Barzal, and Scheifele. McDavid and Kopitar are both above 2:50. Getzlaf has all of 2:49. Matthews gets all of 2:08, on his teams 2nd unit.

But, yes, let's just look at PPG as the be all and end all, and ignore context. In the one thing they all get close to the same amount of ice-time at, Matthews is the best goal scorer, and a top 5 point producer. I wonder what would happen if Matthews got MacKinnon's extra 1:20 seconds on the PP this year. Also realize, all those PP's have been worse than the Leafs outside of Tampa and Pitt.

Everyone failed to notice that all I did was copy and paste a post of zeke’s from another thread.

I think you guys should maybe have a chat about what statistics to use.

 

[jbobell98]

Honestly could see Mcdavid outscoring Matthews in their careers. I mean look at the last half of this season Mcdavid decided to shoot more and hes scoring almost at a goal per game in his last 30

 

[93LEAFS]

If you want to be an elite player, you need to be ppg as a minimum to start conversation. Matthews is not.

Glad to know Patrice Bergeron isn't an elite player.

 

[Yasuo]

Glad to know Patrice Bergeron isn't an elite player.

Matthewbis average defensively unlike Bergeron. Bergeron is a ppg player this year unlike Matthews