Value of: Matt Murray

[Paulie Gualtieri]

What does it have to do with anything? He didn't "just turn 22." That poster said he "just turned 22."

What don't you understand?

What I don't understand is why you are so nitpicky. If you care so much about how many months into the age of 22 Murray is, why didn't you post how many months into the age of 25 Jones was when he was traded?

To think that Murray has the same value as Jones had last year, when Murray is three years younger than Jones was last year, and was very contributive to a Stanley Cup win, is absurd.

 

[jmb412]

People need to understand the Pens aren't trading Murray. And no, they're not going to get screwed in the expansion draft. Fleury will waive his NMC. He knows what's best for this team, and I doubt he'd want to **** this team over and be the villian. He's not going to go to Vegas either. He'll be gone at the deadline or after the season before the expansion draft. A team like Dallas, Buffalo, Carolina, or even a team like Vancouver would be options to trade Fleury.

If Fleury chooses to not move his NMC, he's getting bought out. The Pens would gladly take the $2 mil cap penalty until 2021 if it means Murray is still here. Like I said, in no scenario is Murray moved.

But let's just ignore what I just said and say Murray is being moved.

With how great he is and given he is 22, don't compare him to what the Bruins got for Jones.

Pens are getting at minimum a top 20 draft pick for him, and probably a nice prospect. Call it an overvalue if you want, but that's what it will cost to move Murray.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

A late 1st.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Matt Murray
Eric Fehr

for

Julius Honka
Brett Ritchie (50% retention)
Antti Niemi (50% retention)

*cap space moving in and out is nearly identical

 

[Empoleon8771]

Matt Murray
Eric Fehr

for

Julius Honka
Brett Ritchie (50% retention)
Antti Niemi (50% retention)

None of the 3 things from Dallas fills a need at all for Pittsburgh

 

[OilTastic]

People need to understand the Pens aren't trading Murray. And no, they're not going to get screwed in the expansion draft. Fleury will waive his NMC. He knows what's best for this team, and I doubt he'd want to **** this team over and be the villian. He's not going to go to Vegas either. He'll be gone at the deadline or after the season before the expansion draft. A team like Dallas, Buffalo, Carolina, or even a team like Vancouver would be options to trade Fleury.

If Fleury chooses to not move his NMC, he's getting bought out. The Pens would gladly take the $2 mil cap penalty until 2021 if it means Murray is still here. Like I said, in no scenario is Murray moved.

But let's just ignore what I just said and say Murray is being moved.

With how great he is and given he is 22, don't compare him to what the Bruins got for Jones.

Pens are getting at minimum a top 20 draft pick for him, and probably a nice prospect. Call it an overvalue if you want, but that's what it will cost to move Murray.

i would find any way possible to protect Murray. he's already been the goalie of record for their latest cup victory and likely now the Pens goalie of the future.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

None of the 3 things from Dallas fills a need at all for Pittsburgh

Are you overflowing with blue-chip RHD prospects? What are your needs then?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are you overflowing with blue-chip RHD prospects? What are your needs then?

The Pens aren't overflowing with blue chip RHD prospects, but they added Schultz, Bengtsson and Prow in the last 6 months and Pouliot can also comfortably play RD. I don't think RHD is a major issue going forward for them, they don't have any blue chippers but they have a couple decent guys. The Pens issues long term are top end LW prospects, their best LW prospects are Wilson and Sheary and neither of those guys have a higher ceiling than a prime Kunitz type of player (I don't even think Sheary's ceiling is that high, I personally think he has hit his ceiling already).

 

[Dying Alive]

i would find any way possible to protect Murray. he's already been the goalie of record for their latest cup victory and likely now the Pens goalie of the future.

They will, even if it means buying out MAF and taking the cap hit. If they decide to go with Murray (which it's all but certain they will) they will find a way to do so.

 

[Stuzchuk]

PIT will keep Murray. They can buy out Fleury and that's also Fleury's trade value if he would waive his NMC for a trade, no value. Other teams won't pay much for Fleury. There will be many UFA goalies available in July.
PIT might trade Fleury for nothing to save the buy out cap hit if Fleury waives his NMC, otherwise he will be bought out.
The funny thing is, if Fleury would waive his NMC for the expansion draft he even might not be drafted. But if PIT asks Vegas to exempt Murray from the draft it will be expensive

Will PIT really want a 1.915M hit for 4 years?

as for Murray, he can guarantee very good pick/players... to me that would be the way to go for PIT

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

The Pens aren't overflowing with blue chip RHD prospects, but they added Schultz, Bengtsson and Prow in the last 6 months and Pouliot can also comfortably play RD. I don't think RHD is a major issue going forward for them, they don't have any blue chippers but they have a couple decent guys. The Pens issues long term are top end LW prospects, their best LW prospects are Wilson and Sheary and neither of those guys have a higher ceiling than a prime Kunitz type of player (I don't even think Sheary's ceiling is that high, I personally think he has hit his ceiling already).

Yes, Justin Schultz and Ethan Prow. I see now why players like that would deem a player like Julius Honka unable to "fill a need at all" and justify laughing at me.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, Justin Schultz and Ethan Prow. I see now why players like that would deem a player like Julius Honka unable to "fill a need at all" and justify laughing at me.

I mean, he doesn't though. If the Pens didn't have a #1 RD locked up forever, then yeah, I'd say Honka does fill a need. The only need the Pens have on defense long term is a #4 RD, and that's assuming that Bengtsson and Prow bust, Daley doesn't re-sign and Schultz and Pouliot don't progress from where they are at now. Trading Murray for a guy who would end up at most a 2nd pair RD for the Penguins doesn't make sense, especially when you consider that the Pens don't need an especially great 2nd pair RD to play with Maatta or Dumoulin (they'll be capable of carrying a lesser D partner). Honka doesn't make sense as a target if the Pens are trading Murray unless a lot of other options fail, that's why he doesn't fill a need at all.

 

[Dying Alive]

Matt Murray
Eric Fehr

for

Julius Honka
Brett Ritchie (50% retention)
Antti Niemi (50% retention)

*cap space moving in and out is nearly identical

I think the value is good there but with Fleury turning 32 early next season and the Pens not being sure what they have in Tristan Jarry yet, I think they have to stick with Murray. Interesting offer though.

As an aside, I can't express how much I'd enjoy saying "Maatta-Honka" if they were paired together. Sounds vaguely like cursing.

Will PIT really want a 1.915M hit for 4 years?

as for Murray, he can guarantee very good pick/players... to me that would be the way to go for PIT

If it means holding onto their future franchise goalie who may very well still be on a bridge contract in 4 years? Sure.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

I mean, he doesn't though. If the Pens didn't have a #1 RD locked up forever, then yeah, I'd say Honka does fill a need. The only need the Pens have on defense long term is a #4 RD, and that's assuming that Bengtsson and Prow bust, Daley doesn't re-sign and Schultz and Pouliot don't progress from where they are at now. Trading Murray for a guy who would end up at most a 2nd pair RD for the Penguins doesn't make sense, especially when you consider that the Pens don't need an especially great 2nd pair RD to play with Maatta or Dumoulin (they'll be capable of carrying a lesser D partner). Honka doesn't make sense as a target if the Pens are trading Murray unless a lot of other options fail, that's why he doesn't fill a need at all.

The majority of those are safe assumptions because those players are very sub par options long term; especially in comparison to Honka.

Letang being able to dominate for 25 minutes a night doesn't make the other 35 minutes not matter.

I acknowledge that LW is your biggest need, but would it be unreasonable to say that RHD is your second biggest need. From the outside, it sure looks that way. And being how much more important puck moving defenseman are in comparison to wingers, I don't really see why me offering Honka+ is an absurd idea.

I think you despise the idea of trading Murray, and that's fine. I would too, but I don't see why "None of the 3 things from Dallas fills a need at all for Pittsburgh " was a better response than saying something like "Penguins aren't trading Murray".

 

[BHD]

Simply put, defence isn't enough of a need to trade a 22-year old starting goalie.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Simply put, defence isn't enough of a need to trade a 22-year old starting goalie.

I think it isn't really a question about needs. It just a situation where, for most people, almost anything short of absurdity isn't enough of a need to trade a 22-year old starting goalie like Murray. And that's entirely justified.

The thread asked "If Pittsburgh decides to keep MAF what is the value of Matt Murray? What could the Penguins reasonably expect as a return?". I responded, nothing more. I'm not really trying to cram my idea down anyone's throat. All I'm really trying to get at here is that perhaps Empoleon8771's response could have been better.

 

[jmb412]

Will PIT really want a 1.915M hit for 4 years?

as for Murray, he can guarantee very good pick/players... to me that would be the way to go for PIT

Fleury is making $5.7 for the next 3. Pens would still be getting almost $3 mil in relief. They'd do it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Stanley Cup winning goalie on ELC still Penguins would be idiots to keep MAF instead of him. His value would be high if he was for trade.

[rant]

Unfortunately, the bolded seems to be something we (Penguins fans) will have to deal with all season long since Rutherford decided he just can't part from Fleury.

Honestly, this "value of" thread shouldn't even need to exist. But it does because the Penguins simply refuse to part with their veterans.

[/rant]

As for Murray's value, probably similar to Martin Jones' value. Although I'd point out that at the time of the trade, Jones wasn't nearly as "proven" as Murray is now.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes, Justin Schultz and Ethan Prow. I see now why players like that would deem a player like Julius Honka unable to "fill a need at all" and justify laughing at me.

Derrick Pouliot, while shooting LH, can play the right side. In fact, I believe he did a lot of that in Portland, and has done so in the AHL/NHL as well.

Honka's not really a need.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Derrick Pouliot, while shooting LH, can play the right side. In fact, I believe he did a lot of that in Portland, and has done so in the AHL/NHL as well.

Honka's not really a need.

I don't think Derrick Pouliot being a top 4 defenseman is an entirely safe assumption at this point. I don't think the Penguins currently have an ideal player to take over 2RD next year. Honestly I don't think it's possible to convince me otherwise. If I'm wrong, so be it; just let me wallow in my supposed ignorance.

Again, I think it's a Murray thing and not a position thing. I think if someone was to offer up a right handed defenseman for Fluery for instance, I think it would probably be pretty well received.

 

[go4hockey]

This is all speculation right now.

Everything on this entire site is speculation...., kinda what drives this site.

 

[airbus220]

Vegas has to both take 3 goalies in the draft and get to 60% of the salary cap in the draft. IF MAF waived for the exp draft, who in the **** else the pens would be exposing would they take instead

Vegas has to draft an avg cap hit of 1.46M per player to reach the 60% and the max avg cap hit is 2.43M. Why should Vegas waste 5.75M on a goalie when goalies are the least problem they have. Fleury wasn't even better than Johnson in Buffalo. Buy him out and enjoy his cap hit for 4 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The majority of those are safe assumptions because those players are very sub par options long term; especially in comparison to Honka.

It really sounds like you're saying Honka is a sure thing, which is far from the truth. I think it's inaccurate to say that Honka is more likely to become a top-4 D than Pouliot is. Honka is a clearly inferior option to Daley and he's in the same boat as Pouliot. He's not a glaringly better option than anyone.

Letang being able to dominate for 25 minutes a night doesn't make the other 35 minutes not matter.

And the Penguins just won the cup with Daley, Schultz and Lovejoy as their 2nd and 3rd pair RD. They don't need a top end prospect like Honka on their 2nd pair long term to win a cup.

I acknowledge that LW is your biggest need, but would it be unreasonable to say that RHD is your second biggest need. From the outside, it sure looks that way. And being how much more important puck moving defenseman are in comparison to wingers, I don't really see why me offering Honka+ is an absurd idea.

Yes, saying RHD is the Penguins 2nd biggest need isn't inaccurate to say. A potential top pair RD isn't a need though, and especially not at the cost of Murray. That's the biggest issue I have with that proposal. Honka would be useful to the Penguins, but not at the cost of Murray. If the Pens are trading Murray, it has to be for a potential top line LW. RHD is the 2nd biggest need for the Penguins, but that's only because literally every other position is set now and in the long run.

I think you despise the idea of trading Murray, and that's fine. I would too, but I don't see why "None of the 3 things from Dallas fills a need at all for Pittsburgh " was a better response than saying something like "Penguins aren't trading Murray".

But none of those filled a need. The Penguins absolutely don't need a RWer and a RD isn't a need until none of Daley, Schultz, Pouliot, Begtsson or Prow manage to become a 2nd pair RD. But even then, the Pens only need a #4 for that spot and trading Murray for Honka is blatant overkill for that. The only way trading for Honka makes sense is if it's a swap for Pouliot or if it's buying low, he doesn't fill a big enough need to justify him being a centerpiece of a Murray trade.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

It really sounds like you're saying Honka is a sure thing, which is far from the truth. I think it's inaccurate to say that Honka is more likely to become a top-4 D than Pouliot is. Honka is a clearly inferior option to Daley and he's in the same boat as Pouliot. He's not a glaringly better option than anyone.



And the Penguins just won the cup with Daley, Schultz and Lovejoy as their 2nd and 3rd pair RD. They don't need a top end prospect like Honka on their 2nd pair long term to win a cup.



Yes, saying RHD is the Penguins 2nd biggest need isn't inaccurate to say. A potential top pair RD isn't a need though, and especially not at the cost of Murray. That's the biggest issue I have with that proposal. Honka would be useful to the Penguins, but not at the cost of Murray. If the Pens are trading Murray, it has to be for a potential top line LW. RHD is the 2nd biggest need for the Penguins, but that's only because literally every other position is set now and in the long run.



But none of those filled a need. The Penguins absolutely don't need a RWer and a RD isn't a need until none of Daley, Schultz, Pouliot, Begtsson or Prow manage to become a 2nd pair RD. But even then, the Pens only need a #4 for that spot and trading Murray for Honka is blatant overkill for that. The only way trading for Honka makes sense is if it's a swap for Pouliot or if it's buying low, he doesn't fill a big enough need to justify him being a centerpiece of a Murray trade.

Judging by the bolded, we're never going to find common ground.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Judging by the bolded, we're never going to find common ground.

Okay so you're just overrating Honka then, that's the conclusion I'm coming to. Honka and Pouliot are both great OFD prospects that are on par with each other. Daley right now is a top-4 defenseman and played like a top-2 defenseman for the Penguins.