Value of: Matt Dumba for C/RW

[Sparksrus3]

Nelson seems like the sort of player Fletcher would go after, though I admittedly haven't watched much of him with the Isles.

Islander fans haven't seen much of him either . He is from Minnesota but we won't charge you extra

 

[Ducks in a row]

If Wild trade Dumba I would be shocked.

 

[Bazeek]

Islander fans haven't seen much of him either . He is from Minnesota but we won't charge you extra

I don't hate the idea of taking a flyer on Nelson since we could use a center around his age. It doesn't make much sense as a deadline deal (since that seems to be the scuttlebutt at the moment) for the Wild, but maybe in the offseason? I suspect Minnesota would be hesitant to pay the actual asking price, though.

On the topic of Dumba, I'm highly inclined to keep him. He's been doing very well this year, developing well with plenty of road left ahead of him. If we did trade him it'd have to be in a 1-for-1 deal, and I have a hard time thinking of a realistic target.

 

[57special]

Islander fans haven't seen much of him either .

 

[Bazeek]

Something tells me the leafs got to be wanting him

If they were interested I'm guessing they'd want to offer a package of some sort, which isn't appealing.

 

[Pucker77]

As a Leafs fan, my first instinct would be to offer Kapanen+something like a conditional 1st. Kapanen would be a young and cheap RW like the OP asked for, but while he is NHL ready, I dont know if he has proved enough to warrant the value of Dumba.

The condition for the 1st would be that the Leafs have to win at least 1 playoff round or something like that.

I dont know if Minnesota would be interested in picks/prospects like that though.

 

[Bigkarl]

Dumba + Kaprizov

For

Simmonds + Hagg

 

[Bazeek]

As a Leafs fan, my first instinct would be to offer Kapanen+something like a conditional 1st. Kapanen would be a young and cheap RW like the OP asked for, but while he is NHL ready, I dont know if he has proved enough to warrant the value of Dumba.

The condition for the 1st would be that the Leafs have to win at least 1 playoff round or something like that.

I dont know if Minnesota would be interested in picks/prospects like that though.

Not really, no. I wouldn't rule out prospects entirely, but they'd have to have some seriously compelling upside to be worth it.

Dumba + Kaprizov

For

Simmonds + Hagg

No thanks. I like Simmonds, but I worry about what he'll cost to re-sign. I also think we'd have to insist on getting someone closer to Dumba's age.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Kailer Yamamoto as a base? Obviously Edmonton adds

 

[Bazeek]

Kailer Yamamoto as a base? Obviously Edmonton adds

I don't think so.

 

[bernmeister]

If memory serves when this thread first started I earlier said something along lines of Grabner + pick for Dumba + pick.

Small sample reply but it was that value was good [actually Grabner has exceeded expectations so far this year], Wild side felt they needed to stay younger. I see this concern consistent with other posts offering vets thus far.

So I revive an idea that was somewhat warmly received prior to expansion draft; something around Buchnevich. While not a C, he plays either W and fits acceptable need for comparable youth, talent.

Not unimportantly, he is still on elc, next year is his last before RFA, so you are immediately only taking on .925m, which is huge.

Buchnevich is not kickin it full tilt, but complaints from Rangers board as to AV being culprit -- brilliant with Xs and Os, but a moron at handling players and also too many friggin line changes [making chemistry, etc., more difficult] - are notorious. Why Dumba is still good and desirable but not quite Hanifin lite just yet, Minny fans will have to advise.


What do we think about:

Buchnevich .925
Vin Lettieri, also .925 thru next yr, just had a nice cup of coffee, plays C or RW, righty shot, undrafted, good camp + minors so far; not a sniper yet, but does not excessively defer the shot to a pass; and, to boot, a hometown [Excelsior, Min] boy who --- can't make this stuff up --- is Lou Nanne's grandkid!
Desharnais 1.0 expiring can play pivot, gives bottom 6 depth
Rangers 2018 3rd rounder
Rangers 2019 3rd rounder

I don't believe we still retain Tyler Nanne's rights, but if we do I'll throw them in!

for

Dumba
Wild 2018 1st rounder


thoughts?

 

[Bazeek]

If memory serves when this thread first started I earlier said something along lines of Grabner + pick for Dumba + pick.

Small sample reply but it was that value was good [actually Grabner has exceeded expectations so far this year], Wild side felt they needed to stay younger. I see this concern consistent with other posts offering vets thus far.

So I revive an idea that was somewhat warmly received prior to expansion draft; something around Buchnevich. While not a C, he plays either W and fits acceptable need for comparable youth, talent.

Not unimportantly, he is still on elc, next year is his last before RFA, so you are immediately only taking on .925m, which is huge.

Buchnevich is not kickin it full tilt, but complaints from Rangers board as to AV being culprit -- brilliant with Xs and Os, but a moron at handling players and also too many friggin line changes [making chemistry, etc., more difficult] - are notorious. Why Dumba is still good and desirable but not quite Hanifin lite just yet, Minny fans will have to advise.


What do we think about:

Buchnevich .925
Vin Lettieri, also .925 thru next yr, just had a nice cup of coffee, plays C or RW, righty shot, undrafted, good camp + minors so far; not a sniper yet, but does not excessively defer the shot to a pass; and, to boot, a hometown [Excelsior, Min] boy who --- can't make this stuff up --- is Lou Nanne's grandkid!
Desharnais 1.0 expiring can play pivot, gives bottom 6 depth
Rangers 2018 3rd rounder
Rangers 2019 3rd rounder

I don't believe we still retain Tyler Nanne's rights, but if we do I'll throw them in!

for

Dumba
Wild 2018 1st rounder


thoughts?

Buchnevich for Dumba made a little sense pre-expansion because Buchnevich was exempt and Dumba wasn't. At this point I see no reason to trade Dumba for all of the above, and especially not if we're adding a 1st. We didn't have a 1st last year and haven't had a 2nd in what seems like a decade; we need that pick like we need oxygen right now.

The only reason to trade Dumba is if someone's in dire need of an offensive RD with top-pairing upside and is willing to give up a similarly aged forward (preferably a center) that looks like they're on their way to becoming a star player. I can't think of a team that's that desperate right now.

 

[bernmeister]

Buchnevich for Dumba made a little sense pre-expansion because Buchnevich was exempt and Dumba wasn't. At this point I see no reason to trade Dumba for all of the above, and especially not if we're adding a 1st. We didn't have a 1st last year and haven't had a 2nd in what seems like a decade; we need that pick like we need oxygen right now.

The only reason to trade Dumba is if someone's in dire need of an offensive RD with top-pairing upside and is willing to give up a similarly aged forward (preferably a center) that looks like they're on their way to becoming a star player. I can't think of a team that's that desperate right now.

I can't, and don't, blame you for wanting to max opportunity if your trading partner will overpay in desperation. I also don't see a team desperate enough to go there right now, or anytime soon visible on the horizon.

I disagree as to how Buch stacks up vs., Dumba even straight up. We could ballpark the age, and the extra elc vs that Dumba is a more valuable position.

Basic talent/ability is visible, comparable, IMO.
Buch will benefit away from AV, and I don't think it's fair to expect for Dumba to have matched Hanifin by now, but he is not playing so well he's indispensable, either.

 

[Bazeek]

I can't, and don't, blame you for wanting to max opportunity if your trading partner will overpay in desperation. I also don't see a team desperate enough to go there right now, or anytime soon visible on the horizon.

I disagree as to how Buch stacks up vs., Dumba even straight up. We could ballpark the age, and the extra elc vs that Dumba is a more valuable position.

Basic talent/ability is visible, comparable, IMO.
Buch will benefit away from AV, and I don't think it's fair to expect for Dumba to have matched Hanifin by now, but he is not playing so well he's indispensable, either.

What I'd want in a trade for Dumba is higher than what I reasonably expect teams to offer. While Minnesota does have the sudden luxury of a little RD depth, the fact is that Dumba's age, role, price (including his extension this summer) and trajectory make him fit perfectly where he is right now.

 

[bernmeister]

What I'd want in a trade for Dumba is higher than what I reasonably expect teams to offer. While Minnesota does have the sudden luxury of a little RD depth, the fact is that Dumba's age, role, price (including his extension this summer) and trajectory make him fit perfectly where he is right now.

That is your right and there is nothing wrong with that as long as, as you have been, you are upfront about that.

Sometimes we do complementary [lw for rw, etc] coke for pepsi.
Sometimes we take less for cap or other strategic reasons.
Sometimes we require 'fair' value.
Other times we want top dollar.

As long as everyone makes clear which page they're on, and have respect we each have a right to that page and that opinion, no problem.

 

[57special]

Dumba has more points than Hanifin right now, or maybe I am not understanding your point on that. 7g, 15a 22:41 avg. TOI. I understand that there are more than points that go into the making of a good defender, but i'm not sure that either Dumba or Hanifin are all that when it comes to defending. Maybe i'm wrong...I get Fleury, Slavin, Hanifin mixed up.

Buchnevich...you can say that he will improve away from AV, but who's to say? The Wild are known for demanding two way play from their forwards. Buchnevich might produce LESS in MN, especially if he is playing LW. I don't see him being even close to Dumba in value, and the other pieces offered have little to no value, especially since MN is at their contract limit, and cannot take back any extra. Buchnevich + 1st for Dumba + 3rd might work.

You have Shattenkirk as an offensive RHD. Why do you need Dumba?

 

[bernmeister]

....

remind me to pm/conversation you about your cool guitar avatar.

Re: your post...

Dumba has more points than Hanifin right now, or maybe I am not understanding your point on that. 7g, 15a 22:41 avg. TOI. I understand that there are more than points that go into the making of a good defender, but i'm not sure that either Dumba or Hanifin are all that when it comes to defending. Maybe i'm wrong...I get Fleury, Slavin, Hanifin mixed up.

Not contesting the bold.
I was going on upside as to potential.
Dumba was later.
Hanifin was I think top 5 and there was thought he might have been taken higher. He needed the year + to get his bearings, but now suggests better chance to fulfill larger ceiling.
That's all I meant.

Buchnevich...you can say that he will improve away from AV, but who's to say? The Wild are known for demanding two way play from their forwards. Buchnevich might produce LESS in MN, especially if he is playing LW. I don't see him being even close to Dumba in value, and the other pieces offered have little to no value, especially since MN is at their contract limit, and cannot take back any extra.

Buch can readily handle either W. Can't help at C, but either W no prob.
Buch is already a creative offensive player with talent.
Wild, and every club, has right to be demanding expecting player performance. He is fully adequate/+ on defense. He is not a shutdown coverage stud. But I don't see him being a liability, since he is a good skater with decent + speed and adequate size,
As to AV, he just misuses our talent, and I am not the only NYR fan to think so calling for his exit.
Dumba to NY - he may improve, hold the line, or even regress. But we have Andersson + Chytil next year and stop gaps now at F, where we are thin at RD.
We have a logjam at LD which is why Pionk/Graves are not here now. That is separate issue, but we have min depth at RD.

Buchnevich + 1st for Dumba + 3rd might work.

I think the dif on the principals is closer, esp since Buch remains elc at .925m into/thru next year.

Would welcome honest discussion attempting to find actual fair value, all factors considered.

You have Shattenkirk as an offensive RHD. Why do you need Dumba?

We have min depth at RD.
Also, if we can get him going to fullest potential, Dumba has good wheels and could help in that role but a bit faster, even if he is not as smooth/experienced/accomplished as Shatty.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I should have figured it would be 57 to try and spark up Dumba trade ideas.

 

[Bazeek]

I should have figured it would be 57 to try and spark up Dumba trade ideas.

Counter with a Brodin thread

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Connor Brown, Connor Carrick, 2nd

 

[Bazeek]

Connor Brown, Connor Carrick, 2nd

I know Leafs fans like Brown, but he and Carrick combined have fewer points than Dumba.

 

[57special]

Counter with a Brodin thread

I already posted one pre draft about trading him with DAL for their #3. I would've done that, and picked Mittelstadt, as I think he has a chance to be that elusive White Whale for the Wild, and elite offensive #1C. I recall the DAL fans were somewhat receptive, as visions of a Klingberg/Brodin pairing were dancing in their heads.

I also posted in Aug about a Mittelstadt/ Brodin swap.

I think a lot of Brodin's game, but I would trade him in the right situation, just like I think the Wild should consider trading Dumba for the right player. A package of lesser players is not what the Wild needs. We've got plenty of mediocrity, we don't need to trade for it. Also, as noted above, the Wild don't have extra contracts to hand out anyway.

I don't think standing pat is going to win the Wild a Cup. I see NSH and CHI making moves, and WPG finally reaping the benefits of their young talent, while MN falls behind.

 

[Bazeek]

I already posted one pre draft about trading him with DAL for their #3. I would've done that, and picked Mittelstadt, as I think he has a chance to be that elusive White Whale for the Wild, and elite offensive #1C. I recall the DAL fans were somewhat receptive, as visions of a Klingberg/Brodin pairing were dancing in their heads.

I also posted in Aug about a Mittelstadt/ Brodin swap.

I think a lot of Brodin's game, but I would trade him in the right situation, just like I think the Wild should consider trading Dumba for the right player. A package of lesser players is not what the Wild needs. We've got plenty of mediocrity, we don't need to trade for it. Also, as noted above, the Wild don't have extra contracts to hand out anyway.

Was totally kidding about the Brodin thing; I think we tend to be of the same mind on this. I'd listen to offers for anyone on the team right now, but the only trades that'd be worthwhile would be big ones. Trading off young defensemen or forwards just entering their prime for picks and prospects would be silly unless we're talking about some very compelling picks/prospects.

 

[57special]

I never joke about Brodin.

 

[BagHead]

I already posted one pre draft about trading him with DAL for their #3. I would've done that, and picked Mittelstadt, as I think he has a chance to be that elusive White Whale for the Wild, and elite offensive #1C. I recall the DAL fans were somewhat receptive, as visions of a Klingberg/Brodin pairing were dancing in their heads.

I also posted in Aug about a Mittelstadt/ Brodin swap.

I think a lot of Brodin's game, but I would trade him in the right situation, just like I think the Wild should consider trading Dumba for the right player. A package of lesser players is not what the Wild needs. We've got plenty of mediocrity, we don't need to trade for it. Also, as noted above, the Wild don't have extra contracts to hand out anyway.

I don't think standing pat is going to win the Wild a Cup. I see NSH and CHI making moves, and WPG finally reaping the benefits of their young talent, while MN falls behind.

I see the same thing, but I wouldn't move one of our top 4 defensemen to make it happen. I think those guys are the reason the Wild have been competitive. I wouldn't mind seeing a shakeup among the forwards. The only guys up there that I wouldn't even consider trading are Granlund and Niederreiter (mainly because I can finally spell his last name without looking it up. Such a shame to trade him now! Oh, also he's really good). I'd say Staal as well, but given his age... I don't know, I might at least kick the tires. I guess somebody needs to play center though, right?