OccidentalSoothsayer
Registered User
Clearly I took the entire season in to consideration when I noted that MD was the 30th most productive centreman in the NHL last season please pay attention
Speculation: Matt Duchene
- Thread starter DaveMatthew
- Start date
bert
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Have you ever been traded? Or moved your entire established adult life to a new city? Its the first time for Duchene for both and he didnt play well at first. Its a legitimate excuse. Ive had the opportunity to watch the majority of his career he is a very talented player.
Alot of personal conjecture from you in this thread 'bad attitude'. Thats your opinion. Not fact.
You also tried to cherry pick his playoff stats with no context. 'A guy who has no goals and 6 points in his playoff career'. Lol he's only played 8 playoff games... You really appear to have a specific agenda witb this player.
Teams can rebuild while keeping some elite talent it isnt one way or the other. He has been picked for Canada in a best on best situation. Alot of amazing hockey minds making that decision and they have had alot of success. He has to be pretty decent, and as a lower tier player on that team you usually have to be able to mesh with your teamates. So his attitude cant be that bad.
Hat included a cold streak the likes of which he has not experienced before lol.
Do you think he’s the thirtieth best ceterman
Agent Zub
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There is no denying that Duchene is a very talented and valuable player.
However his early scoring woes were nothing new. Dude his inconsistent, not in effort but in production. He is they type who will go on a 30 game run of being a PPG player and follow it up up with a 20 game run of putting up 7 points.
It's been the story of his career so far. He gets into his own head wayy too much when things are going bad. There's a clip of him scoring after a long drought and as a celebration he mimiced throwing a monkey off his back.
I'm hoping that with age and experience he might iron those issues out. But the issues have been very real so far and explain why he isn't considered (or produces like) an elite number 1 center.
However his early scoring woes were nothing new. Dude his inconsistent, not in effort but in production. He is they type who will go on a 30 game run of being a PPG player and follow it up up with a 20 game run of putting up 7 points.
It's been the story of his career so far. He gets into his own head wayy too much when things are going bad. There's a clip of him scoring after a long drought and as a celebration he mimiced throwing a monkey off his back.
I'm hoping that with age and experience he might iron those issues out. But the issues have been very real so far and explain why he isn't considered (or produces like) an elite number 1 center.
Ouroboros
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Is it really that outlandish?
I think all of the following centers are better: McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, MacKinnon, Tavares, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Bergeron, Barkov, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Scheifele, Seguin, Carter, Toews, Draisaitl, Matthews, Thornton, Staal, Eichel, Point and Monahan. That's 23 above him right there. Not to mention young guys poised to pass him like William Karlsson, Matt Barzal [probably already better], and Vincent Trocheck.
I rank him in a tier with guys like Johansen, Couture, O'Reilly, Schenn.
So I guess Duchene is somewhere in the 25-35 range depending on how high or low you are on the guy. If you are a serious contending team then Duchene is your second, or in some cases [Pittsburgh, Tampa, Washington, San Jose, LA] third center.
Good player, not great. Not a franchise piece.
KnuckChuckinTkachuk
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Agent Zub
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Or just being realistic about his ability based on his career to date.
He's a 60 point center who can net 70 in a good year. No need to pretend that he's a top 15 c in the league.
Not sure any one did that, but there’s no need to pretend he’s not a top 30 c in the league is there?
Agent Zub
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I dunno, that list above had 4 or 5 guys that I don't think are better at all. The last 30 games of Duchene, when he finally started clicking, was a top 15 centre in the NHL. Clicking at ppg for 30 games is nothing to sneeze at.
Now, if he continues next season the way he finished the last half of last season he'll change people's minds on his own. If he goes cold for half the season and goes on fire for the other half I'll obviously have to concede that his consistency is keeping him from being amongst the top #1 centres.
The thing is 70 points is pretty large for a centre these days, how many centres scored over 70 actually playing centre?
BondraTime
Registered User
Last year there were 18 full time C's with 70 or more, and a few part time.
McDavid
McKinnon
Kopitar
Crosby
Malkin
Backstrom
Kuznetzov
Barzal
Tavares
Stamkos
Karlsson
Barkov
Staal
Seguin
Couturier
Marchessault
Schenn
Trochek
Then guys like Giroux and Driasatl who would fall in the only sometimes play centre category.
If Duchene scores 70, we're happy. Consistency has obviously always been an issue, hopefully he's able to overcome that.
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Sensung
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- Oct 3, 2017
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I really like Matt Duchene and I'm happy he's a Sen. I hope they lock him up for the next 8 years and he blossoms into a more consistent #1 C we've been missing.
Pretending like:
We didn't overpay for him.
The lost 1st isn't a detriment to future planning.
That not lottery protecting the pick wasn't a mistake
That he isn't a marginal upgrade over Turris.
is completely delusional, but on par with Leaf fans who defended the Kessel deal to the bitter end.
In a way, it is a litmus test for homerism/negative nellieism. If you can't see Duchene as a good player with the potential to be a real star then you are too far on the negative side. If you can't admit we got shafted in the deal and that it could be potentially disasterous if Colorado drafts in the top 5, then you are an unabashed homer.
Pretending like:
We didn't overpay for him.
The lost 1st isn't a detriment to future planning.
That not lottery protecting the pick wasn't a mistake
That he isn't a marginal upgrade over Turris.
is completely delusional, but on par with Leaf fans who defended the Kessel deal to the bitter end.
In a way, it is a litmus test for homerism/negative nellieism. If you can't see Duchene as a good player with the potential to be a real star then you are too far on the negative side. If you can't admit we got shafted in the deal and that it could be potentially disasterous if Colorado drafts in the top 5, then you are an unabashed homer.
The only thing for me that makes it a overpayment is the pick for next season...Everything else we gave up I was ok in losing
BondraTime
Registered User
The pick was lottery protected, that's why we were able to keep this years pick.
You can't just trade a 1st round pick with lifetime lottery protection, that makes no sense.
Trading a 1st in the Sens position wasn't a smart move whatsoever, whole-heartedly agree there.
Sensung
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That isn't lottery protection per se. It is some protection, but it could end up being a lottery pick this coming year.
Any trade stipulation is possible. If the Sens wanted to put in a clause that the pick would keep flipping until it wasn't a lottery pick and the Avs agreed, then that is what would have happened. They didn't, so now we face the possibility of giving up the 1st overall.
Man, so much depends on what happens with our three stars this season. All three kept, and some nice rookie additions has the potential to take a serious bite out of that 1st rounder that has many people concerned.
I personally have a hard time speculating at all in terms of next season until this first block is sorted, I mean so much depends on it either way. Is there new ownership with money coming? Are going to lock up these three star players to long term deals when it comes?
BondraTime
Registered User
Name me one trade in the past 10 years where a pick held any type of protection a 2nd time after being protected by a stipulation initially (as our 2018 1st was).
Yeah that's not a thing Sensung. You lottery protect the pick to deflect it until the next year, not indefinitely. Think about it, a team like the Oilers or Leafs could have deflected the pick for a decade.
You're trying to spin a lottery protected pick into a 'not enough protected' lottery pick. It's an unrealistic reach at best.
Sensung
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Why?
Simply because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it couldn't.
The pick did not have full lottery protection.
BondraTime
Registered User
Because that isn't a thing....do you think the GM's making trades for the past 30 years wouldn't have done this if possible?
Sensung
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You fail to lottery protect the pick and then you fail to sign the players that can help you insure that it isn't a lottery pick in year 2.
In doing so, you make it more difficult to stomach trading away the stars you are unwilling to pay for as you don't benefit from the tank when you lose those stars.
Please explain to us again how brilliant a trade PD made...I could use the laugh.
Sensung
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In a trade, virtually any clause is possible as long as it is legal. Simply because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't. Perhaps the Sens could have owed another 2nd round pick if the Avs couldn't cash the 1st in years one or two.
I freely admit that this is an unlikely scenario and that PD got partial lottery protection.
Heres my thing with duchene: he started off super cold. Ended super hot. So how can anyone have a strong opinion either way?
He’s not a young kid. This year is his chance. I’m ready to love. I’m ready to hate too though.
He’s not a young kid. This year is his chance. I’m ready to love. I’m ready to hate too though.
Well I can agree that he point totals were hot and cold (or cold and hot as it were) but I think he was very consistent in his work ethic and creation of scoring opportunities.
He had some back luck to start IMO but then he really got going.
This is the sad part to me...watching Karlsson with a fast, super high end skilled C was such a treat and to have it apparently end so quickly is a real shame.
Team was fun to watch when they opened it up and quite frankly while we can't expect too much in the standings this year I would think we can be very fun to watch again.
