Injury Report: Mathew Dumba - Returns Tonight vs. CHI

[Dr Jan Itor]

And I would say that Spurgeon establishing himself as a top 4 defenseman that year isn't much of an argument to be used against Dumba, as the defensive corps was as follows:

Tom Gilbert
Justin Falk
Nate Prosser
Kurtis Foster
Clayton Stoner
2nd year Jared Spurgeon
Pretty much 1st year Marco Scandella

The current version of Dumba might be the #1 guy in that group, or at worst, 2nd only to Spurgeon.

And by the way, look what can happen in 5 years. That group is putrid gross.

 

[Wabit]

And I would say that Spurgeon establishing himself as a top 4 defenseman that year isn't much of an argument to be used against Dumba, as the defensive corps was as follows:

Tom Gilbert
Justin Falk
Nate Prosser
Kurtis Foster
Clayton Stoner
2nd year Jared Spurgeon
Pretty much 1st year Marco Scandella

The current version of Dumba might be the #1 guy in that group, or at worst, 2nd only to Spurgeon.

And by the way, look what can happen in 5 years. That group is putrid gross.

It makes me wonder if Dumba can get enough quality ice-time to help with his progression. Brodin (24+ mins), Spurgeon (21+ mins), Scandella (21+ mins) is their 21/22 year old years. He hasn't had 20+min a night since Jrs, a year in the AHL might have done a lot for him.

The Wild with their defensive depth might be holding him back. If he was on a weaker team he'd be forced into playing all situations hockey. Maybe that's what he needs to get to be a top pair player?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It makes me wonder if Dumba can get enough quality ice-time to help with his progression. Brodin (24+ mins), Spurgeon (21+ mins), Scandella (21+ mins) is their 21/22 year old years. He hasn't had 20+min a night since Jrs, a year in the AHL might have done a lot for him.

The Wild with their defensive depth might be holding him back. If he was on a weaker team he'd be forced into playing all situations hockey. Maybe that's what he needs to get to be a top pair player?

I'm not too worried about that because the only situation that he's not playing regularly is the penalty kill, which is the least "developmental" of the three. He's going to get his 12-13 ES minutes and 4-5 PP minutes per game, and with his offensive nature, I think we'd rather have him expend his energy in the other two areas.

 

[57special]

It makes me wonder if Dumba can get enough quality ice-time to help with his progression. Brodin (24+ mins), Spurgeon (21+ mins), Scandella (21+ mins) is their 21/22 year old years. He hasn't had 20+min a night since Jrs, a year in the AHL might have done a lot for him.

The Wild with their defensive depth might be holding him back. If he was on a weaker team he'd be forced into playing all situations hockey. Maybe that's what he needs to get to be a top pair player?

Maybe not so much this year(maybe after Christmas?), but in a year or two, definitely. I feel Brodin and Scandella are held back a bit by not getting to play in more offensive situations. Both have untapped talent, but they aren't going to displace Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba or Reilly on PP's or OZone oppos.

 

[FVM]

And I would say that Spurgeon establishing himself as a top 4 defenseman that year isn't much of an argument to be used against Dumba, as the defensive corps was as follows:

Tom Gilbert
Justin Falk
Nate Prosser
Kurtis Foster
Clayton Stoner
2nd year Jared Spurgeon
Pretty much 1st year Marco Scandella

The current version of Dumba might be the #1 guy in that group, or at worst, 2nd only to Spurgeon.

And by the way, look what can happen in 5 years. That group is putrid gross.

That's... disgusting.

Thank you Fletcher
Thank you Fletcher
Thank you Fletcher
Thank you Fletcher
Thank you Fletcher

 

[hirawl]

He needed a season in the A and he was never given that opportunity. Yeas I'm calling it that. Would have been the absolute right thing for him. It sucks even more because everybody knew it back then.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Yeah both were incorrect. Spurgeon's 22 year old season was 2011-12. Dumba has yet to play his 22 year old season.

Spurgeon was drafted in 2008. Dumba in 2012. 4 year difference.

2016-2017 - 4 years =/= 2011-12.

Dumba just started his 5th season post-draft.

2012-13 Red Deer Rebels A WHL 62 16 26 42 80 10 |
Houston Aeros AHL 3 0 0 0 2 0 |
2013-14 Minnesota Wild NHL 13 1 1 2 2 -5 |
Portland Winterhawks WHL 26 8 16 24 37 31 |
Canada U20 A WJC-20 7 0 1 1 12 4 |
2014-15 Minnesota Wild NHL 58 8 8 16 23 13 | Playoffs 10 2 2 4 2 -1
Iowa Wild AHL 20 5 9 14 6 2 |
2015-16 Minnesota Wild NHL 81 10 16 26 38 1 |
Canada WC 10 1 1 2 2 8 |
2016-17 Minnesota Wild NHL 4 1 1 2 2 -1 |


During Spurgeon's 5th season post-draft, it was his 3rd with the Wild.

2008-09 Spokane Chiefs WHL 59 10 35 45 37 36 | Playoffs 12 2 3 5 10 3
2009-10 Spokane Chiefs WHL 54 8 43 51 18 4 | Playoffs 7 0 4 4 2 -2
2010-11 Minnesota Wild NHL 53 4 8 12 2 -1 |
Houston Aeros AHL 23 2 7 9 10 -5 |
2011-12 Minnesota Wild NHL 70 3 20 23 6 -4 |
2012-13 SCL Tigers NHL Lockout NLA 12 3 4 7 6 -9 |
Minnesota Wild NHL 39 5 10 15 4 1 |

 

[nickschultzfan]

There is also a HUGE difference between saying:

1) "Defensemen have a more complex position and don't enter their prime until later, 26-29."

TRUE

2) "An offensive Dman with little history of quality defensive play and questionable hockey IQ is able to become a solid NHL defender via enough proper coaching."

DEBATABLE IF NOT SUSPECT

 

[57special]

I think BB's advice to Dumba, " Calm it down, you're trying to do too much" has helped him a lot. I see a more focused, in control'player right now. Still the odd puck fumble in his own end ( which is weird, because he is good with the puck otherwise), but much better in defensive situations.

I'm not asking Dumba to be A shutdown defender, but it will be huge if he becomes solid on the back end. His first pass is also looking better...much better. Overlooked with all the breakaways is all the great passes from our own zone to start them.

He's still young, and there will be regression, but hopefully he is heading in the right direction.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Spurgeon was drafted at 18 and turned 19 five months later. Dumba was drafted at 17 and turned 18 a month later. Recognize the difference. That's why I compare seasons of the same age and not difference in years from their draft.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I think BB's advice to Dumba, " Calm it down, you're trying to do too much" has helped him a lot. I see a more focused, in control'player right now. Still the odd puck fumble in his own end ( which is weird, because he is good with the puck otherwise), but much better in defensive situations.

I'm not asking Dumba to be A shutdown defender, but it will be huge if he becomes solid on the back end. His first pass is also looking better...much better. Overlooked with all the breakaways is all the great passes from our own zone to start them.

He's still young, and there will be regression, but hopefully he is heading in the right direction.

I feel like last game he was able to "calm it down" because he played more minutes. He had TWENTY SIX (26!!!!) minutes of ice time. The game before that he had 23 minutes. Arguably the most dominating games I've seen him play.

 

[keppel146]

up to 19 pts in 40 GP -- 6 G 13 A.

Last year he racked up 26 pts in 81 GP. I think it is fair to say he should set a new career high.

 

[MNRube]

Going to hurt when/if Vegas takes him.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I don't see Vegas even having the opportunity.

 

[Bookman]

They reallllly need to keep this guy around.

I think it is easier to develop sound and safe top 4 dmen than guys that can do all the things Dumba can.

 

[57special]

I think mobile defenseman who can defend are underrated. The Klingbergs Barrie's, and Vatanens of the world have their place, but not having a sound defence when you are going to play good playoff teams is not a recipe for success. The last team to go balls out on offence that went anywhere was the Gretzky Oiler's, and even they had a great goalie and some decent defensive Dmen in Lowe and Huddy.

 

[Bookman]

I think mobile defenseman who can defend are underrated. The Klingbergs Barrie's, and Vatanens of the world have their place, but not having a sound defence when you are going to play good playoff teams is not a recipe for success. The last team to go balls out on offence that went anywhere was the Gretzky Oiler's, and even they had a great goalie and some decent defensive Dmen in Lowe and Huddy.

Just draft a Swede. Brodin, Olofsson....

 

[57special]

I'll admit to having a big bias for Brodin, but there is no doubt that I am doing a slow burn that we have to lose Dumba(or Brodin). They are yin and yang. Both REALLY useful.

 

[Bookman]

I'll admit to having a big bias for Brodin, but there is no doubt that I am doing a slow burn that we have to lose Dumba(or Brodin). They are yin and yang. Both REALLY useful.

Totally - I hope there is a way the Wild get through this expansion nonsense with both and sign Dumba to a nice long-term deal.

 

[Bruce Granville]

I'll admit to having a big bias for Brodin, but there is no doubt that I am doing a slow burn that we have to lose Dumba(or Brodin). They are yin and yang. Both REALLY useful.

Or we go the 8 skater route and protect 4 D...and ask Koivu and Poms to waive their clauses.

 

[TaLoN]

They reallllly need to keep this guy around.

I think it is easier to develop sound and safe top 4 dmen than guys that can do all the things Dumba can.

Exactly! He's the most important piece to keep back there after Suter, because players like him are just so hard to find!

Obviously Spurgeon is by far the better overall player right now, but Dumba plays the game like no other back there for us, and we NEED to keep that!

Find a way to entice Vegas to take Scandella... give up Haula and a 2nd if you have to... we NEED to keep Dumba!

If push came to shove, I'd expose Brodin before Dumba and I love Brodin too!

Or we go the 8 skater route and protect 4 D...and ask Koivu and Poms to waive their clauses.

Beginning of the year I might have agreed with asking Koivu to waive... but his resurgence due to less responsibility... no way... he'd be taken by Vegas in a heartbeat, then we're stuck trying to find another top 6 Center.... NO THANK YOU!

 

[Bruce Granville]

Exactly! He's the most important piece to keep back there after Suter, because players like him are just so hard to find!

Obviously Spurgeon is by far the better overall player right now, but Dumba plays the game like no other back there for us, and we NEED to keep that!

Find a way to entice Vegas to take Scandella... give up Haula and a 2nd if you have to... we NEED to keep Dumba!

If push came to shove, I'd expose Brodin before Dumba and I love Brodin too!

Beginning of the year I might have agreed with asking Koivu to waive... but his resurgence due to less responsibility... no way... he'd be taken by Vegas in a heartbeat, then we're stuck trying to find another top 6 Center.... NO THANK YOU!

No. I cannot believe that LV would pick a 34yo player who is becoming a FA after one year.
Wild promise Koivu to take him back and let him play as long as he likes.

 

[TaLoN]

No. I cannot believe that LV would pick a 34yo player who is becoming a FA after one year.
Wild promise Koivu to take him back and let him play as long as he likes.

You underestimate the value of quality centers in this league then. He'd get them nice returns come the trade deadline to a team looking for a cup run. That reason alone is why they'd take him.

He'd give them a high quality big center who can win faceoffs and wear the C, and then when the time comes, cash in at the deadline.

 

[Bookman]

You underestimate the value of quality centers in this league then. He'd get them nice returns come the trade deadline to a team looking for a cup run. That reason alone is why they'd take him.

He'd give them a high quality big center who can win faceoffs and wear the C, and then when the time comes, cash in at the deadline.

While I agree with what you are saying, that would be a cruddy way to treat Koivu. He means a little bit more to the franchise to do that.

 

[TaLoN]

While I agree with what you are saying, that would be a cruddy way to treat Koivu. He means a little bit more to the franchise to do that.

You obviously mis-read my post... I didn't say WE should... I said Vegas would.

I want Mikko to retire with the Wild, and IMO if we ask him to waive at this point, he'd be taken in a heartbeat. Thus we can't ask him to waive.