Player Discussion: Mathew Barzal

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Does anyone else here think that Tom Brady was overrated. You know he’s all about passing it’s the other players scoring all the touchdowns.

I'm sure that makes sense in your mind.

 

[CupHolders]

Right, but he's got significantly more points than those guys. Barzal has about ten more points than three players or whatever and he's not a goal scorer. Barzal might finish the season with three different 30 goal scorers on the roster too.

I think he's had a great season for the most part but I don't think he's carried the team. When the team needed to win Horvat was the only one scoring in big moments.

This past stretch, almost all of those goals (except the Rangers game yesterday) were not just primary assists to Barzal, but exceptionally great passes. Some elevated back hands right into Horvat’s wheel house etc.

Many other goals this year by Horvat have been because of Barzal. Butch is constantly complementing Barzal’s game and how the two are playing together. For all of his quirks and malapropisms… Butch still knows more hockey than everyone on this board.

Regardless, I just don’t see those Horvat goals and come away thinking “that was all Horvat there.” I usually come away thinking “what a great finish on a great setup.”

So back to the original point… Is Barzal carrying the team? No, not at all.

However Barzal is definitely their primary play driver everyone including Horvat and Barzal himself are benefiting from that.

 

[PK Cronin]

This past stretch, almost all of those goals (except the Rangers game yesterday) were not just primary assists to Barzal, but exceptionally great passes. Some elevated back hands right into Horvat’s wheel house etc.

Many other goals this year by Horvat have been because of Barzal. Butch is constantly complementing Barzal’s game and how the two are playing together. For all of his quirks and malapropisms… Butch still knows more hockey than everyone on this board.

Regardless, I just don’t see those Horvat goals and come away thinking “that was all Horvat there.” I usually come away thinking “what a great finish on a great setup.”

So back to the original point… Is Barzal carrying the team? No, not at all.

However Barzal is definitely their primary play driver everyone including Horvat and Barzal himself are benefiting from that.

I don't think I argued that they weren't working well together or that Barzal wasn't a play maker. The fact that they're working well together actually proves my point that Barzal isn't carrying the team. Carrying implies that they're doing it alone and/or are doing it when it's needed most and that simply isn't the case. Going back a month (16 games) Barzal has scored three goals.

To say, "he's carrying the team, but don't look at the guy(s) actually scoring the goals" is a very weird take that people have. Dobson has three less primary assists than Barzal. There just isn't a big enough difference between his production and the other guys to make the claim like some other teams are with their players.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and I hope they continue to click together.

Also, I forgot that Palmieri has been on his heater lately too and shouldn't be overlooked when it comes to scoring some of these clutch goals down the stretch.

 

[Zeeker]

Might I add that Barzal looked defeated even before taking that penalty shot yesterday. That had the potential to put a damper on the entire night, the moment looked too big for him.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Right, but he's got significantly more points than those guys. Barzal has about ten more points than three players or whatever and he's not a goal scorer. Barzal might finish the season with three different 30 goal scorers on the roster too.

I think he's had a great season for the most part but I don't think he's carried the team. When the team needed to win Horvat was the only one scoring in big moments.

I don't think you're getting the point.

Those three Bolts players have such high points totals because they spent the vast majority of time playing with two other elite players.

Barzal is crossing 80 points playing with significantly worse players. Even Horvat, who is a good player, isn't as good as someone like Point. He's producing and carrying a heavier workload than someone like Kuch has to.

 

[PK Cronin]

I don't think you're getting the point.

Those three Bolts players have such high points totals because they spent the vast majority of time playing with two other elite players.

Barzal is crossing 80 points playing with significantly worse players. Even Horvat, who is a good player, isn't as good as someone like Point. He's producing and carrying a heavier workload than someone like Kuch has to.

I understood, I just think that's a flawed way of looking at "carrying" a team.

Tampa Bay was in a similar position in the standings as the Islanders all year until this last 15 or so games. Kucherov is head and shoulders better than everyone else on that team. He has 53 more points than Point, which is crazy given how good Point is. Point is a -14, Stamkos is a -20, and Kucherov is a +9. He also has 43 goals, so he's not just dishing it off, he's actually doing everything and has helped them go on this great run to finish the end of the season. The Islanders are just continuing their Jekyll and Hyde routine with a lack of consistency game to game.

If you want to argue that the Islanders are worse, no problem, but that doesn't mean Barzal is carrying them when he's only doing one thing in terms of production and is pretty even with the rest of his teammates production-wise. If you swap Kucherov with Barzal I'd bet Kucherov would have more points than Barzal has, and the Islanders would have a few more wins, and that Barzal would have significantly less points than Kucherov has playing with that same talent.

 

[Throttle]

He’s not carrying or leading the team. At times, he’s effectively supporting it. At other times, he’s Casper the Friendly Ghost.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Might I add that Barzal looked defeated even before taking that penalty shot yesterday. That had the potential to put a damper on the entire night, the moment looked too big for him.

Just making stuff up.

 

[Rehabguy]

I don't think you're getting the point.

Those three Bolts players have such high points totals because they spent the vast majority of time playing with two other elite players.

Barzal is crossing 80 points playing with significantly worse players. Even Horvat, who is a good player, isn't as good as someone like Point. He's producing and carrying a heavier workload than someone like Kuch has to.

Absolutely. It’s very narrow minded to look only at goals and points as the indicator of who’s driving the team. In fact, one could easily argue that through all the recent Cup wins and playoff series Hedman was their most impactful player and the anchor that kept the team in the game most nights. In fact the last season the Isles faced the Lightning in the playoffs Kucherov was injured most of the year and yet they were still dominant without him in the lineup. As for talented, I think historically that’s a toss up between Stamkos and Kucherov. We’re talking about one of the most stacked teams in the past decade or so here not the New York Islanders who at this point in time and with the previous coaching regime out of the picture clearly shows Barzal to be the teams most impactful player. Unlike Kucherov without him in the lineup, the Isles are one and done. He is the catalyst on this team.

 

[Rehabguy]

He’s not carrying or leading the team. At times, he’s effectively supporting it. At other times, he’s Casper the Friendly Ghost.

He’s not carrying or leading the team but just a few posts ago you put the blame squarely on him for the Isles current precarious position in the playoff race. Does that not imply that what he does has a great impact on this team’s success or lack thereof? Time to stop contradicting yourself.

 

[Throttle]

He’s not carrying or leading the team but just a few posts ago you put the blame squarely on him for the Isles current precarious position in the playoff race. Does that not imply that what he does has a great impact on this team’s success or lack thereof? Time to stop contradicting yourself.

Nope. The Barzal Fan Club is always a treat.

 

[leeroggy]

Just making stuff up.

Heck, some of the posters here looked defeated before the puck is dropped to start the game . . .

 

[islesmb]

Just making stuff up.

Exactly. The puck just fluttered a bit before he took the shot so he didn't get the best shot off. Plus that goalie on the other team is pretty good too.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Heck, some of the posters here looked defeated before the puck is dropped to start the game . . .

You're over the target.

 

[Rehabguy]

Nope. The Barzal Fan Club is always a treat.

Amazing. He’s the most impactful player, the most dynamic exciting player this team has had since Palffy and you lead the Barzal Haters Club. That’s the thing. All it takes is one person to introduce an idea and many on these boards fall into line. It makes no sense whatsoever for some of you to abhor Barzal as much as you do and once it is proven right in front of your very eyes that coaching was always the problem you still hold steadfast to your silly notions. Roy introduced a system that literally verbatim was exactly what Rehabguy said they should be doing and Hey look guys no more turtling and a Barzal unleashed! Any of you want to return to basketball defense? I know I know but it’s Rehabguy who’s the troll.

 

[mm11]

He’s not carrying or leading the team but just a few posts ago you put the blame squarely on him for the Isles current precarious position in the playoff race. Does that not imply that what he does has a great impact on this team’s success or lack thereof? Time to stop contradicting yourself.

last year we heard from full throttle to wait until the 9 million dollar a year contract kicks in for #13 and how he will be grossly overpaid. Then, when the kid actually plays to his contract well, the narrative moves to well he can't step up and lead his team to the playoffs and it's a direct result why the NYI are out of the race. Fast forward to now and the team is on the cusp of earning a spot due to the help from #13 stepping up and full throttle still is not sold? Appreciate your passion brother. LGI

 

[saintunspecified]

Might I add that Barzal looked defeated even before taking that penalty shot yesterday. That had the potential to put a damper on the entire night, the moment looked too big for him.

People used to say stuff like that about Eli Manning even after his first super bowl.

Barzal isn't a guy who can carry a whole team. But he has improved his game a ton, and he's emotionally matured. Yeah, he's not as gregarious as he was. And he doesn't turn over the puck as often either. Perhaps those things are related.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think some of you have a very lax definition of what carrying means.

It generally means that a single player is winning by themselves and everyone else is pretty much doing nothing or having a marginal impact when compared to that player. That's not happening and has never really happened with Barzal. That's why the argument has always been that he needs more talented players to play with. You aren't carrying the team if you need better players around you in order to do it.

That's not a knock on Barzal either, he just isn't this superstar that some think he is. That's okay. He's having a good season, he's stopped doing the dumb circling of the offensive zone for a turnover, and he's giving his teammates the puck way more in transition than he ever has before. These are all good things. He's also shooting more and has a career high in goals, but it won't (and shouldn't) stop people from wanting a bit more from someone with his level of talent.

 

[seafoam]

I think some of you have a very lax definition of what carrying means.

It generally means that a single player is winning by themselves and everyone else is pretty much doing nothing or having a marginal impact when compared to that player. That's not happening and has never really happened with Barzal. That's why the argument has always been that he needs more talented players to play with. You aren't carrying the team if you need better players around you in order to do it.

That's not a knock on Barzal either, he just isn't this superstar that some think he is. That's okay. He's having a good season, he's stopped doing the dumb circling of the offensive zone for a turnover, and he's giving his teammates the puck way more in transition than he ever has before. These are all good things. He's also shooting more and has a career high in goals, but it won't (and shouldn't) stop people from wanting a bit more from someone with his level of talent.

I mean, his best season statistically was his rookie year when he was playing behind Tavares. Sure, Weight’s system was akin to riverboat gambling but at the same time the structure of the roster allowed Barzal to not be the primary fiddle up front which clearly allowed his to flourish.

 

[Rehabguy]

I think some of you have a very lax definition of what carrying means.

It generally means that a single player is winning by themselves and everyone else is pretty much doing nothing or having a marginal impact when compared to that player. That's not happening and has never really happened with Barzal. That's why the argument has always been that he needs more talented players to play with. You aren't carrying the team if you need better players around you in order to do it.

That's not a knock on Barzal either, he just isn't this superstar that some think he is. That's okay. He's having a good season, he's stopped doing the dumb circling of the offensive zone for a turnover, and he's giving his teammates the puck way more in transition than he ever has before. These are all good things. He's also shooting more and has a career high in goals, but it won't (and shouldn't) stop people from wanting a bit more from someone with his level of talent.

With that superstar lineup Tampa has had over the years I cannot see how you think Kucherov carries the Lightning. No one player in reality carries any team but Barzal’s presence on the Isles is more impactful than Kucherov’s presence on the Bolts though there is no doubt about his talent. Few of us care about superstar status over impact players. Barzal is a fine talent but there is no doubt he plays a pivotal role on this team. The lengths at which some of you go to minimize his contributions is again, amazing.

 

[mm11]

With that superstar lineup Tampa has had over the years I cannot see how you think Kucherov carries the Lightning. No one player in reality carries any team but Barzal’s presence on the Isles is more impactful than Kucherov’s presence on the Bolts though there is no doubt about his talent. Few of us care about superstar status over impact players. Barzal is a fine talent but there is no doubt he plays a pivotal role on this team.

Good debate. Kuch is better, has rings to prove it too. Also kuch, I agree has a much more talented supporting cast that have rings too. I would not suspect #86 carrying the isles to cups but what do I know. I'm tickling in a 2 ft birdie putt on hole #1. LGI.

 

[crashthenet]

I was very critical of his play earlier this year. I felt he was invisible in the D zone even if the takeaway stats said something different. Perhaps he has found the right coach because he is absolutely competent in the D zone and I loved seeing him out there at the end of the game Tuesday.

 

[Rehabguy]

I was very critical of his play earlier this year. I felt he was invisible in the D zone even if the takeaway stats said something different. Perhaps he has found the right coach because he is absolutely competent in the D zone and I loved seeing him out there at the end of the game Tuesday.

Twice I saw him dive face first in front of a Panarin slap shot at the closing moments of the game. Cizikas must be rubbing off on him. Barzal’s a keeper. Can’t believe I have to say that.

 

[Rehabguy]

Good debate. Kuch is better, has rings to prove it too. Also kuch, I agree has a much more talented supporting cast that have rings too. I would not suspect #86 carrying the isles to cups but what do I know. I'm tickling in a 2 ft birdie putt on hole #1. LGI.

Trust me you know much

 

[PK Cronin]

With that superstar lineup Tampa has had over the years I cannot see how you think Kucherov carries the Lightning. No one player in reality carries any team but Barzal’s presence on the Isles is more impactful than Kucherov’s presence on the Bolts though there is no doubt about his talent. Few of us care about superstar status over impact players. Barzal is a fine talent but there is no doubt he plays a pivotal role on this team. The lengths at which some of you go to minimize his contributions is again, amazing.

What that roster has done previously isn't relevant to whether or not Kucherov is carrying that team today. That team was struggling and Kucherov is head and shoulders above the rest of his team and has continued his strong play during the most crucial time of the year. I understand that there is more high end talent on the Lightning, but that high end talent was struggling in the standings for most of the year still. Without Kucherov I do not think that team is in the same or a similar position today, they'd be fighting for a spot just like the other 5 teams below them.

Your claim that Barzal's presence is more impactful than Kucherov's is just flat out ridiculous. The only argument is that you think Tampa Bay could withstand a loss of Kucherov because of the talent they do have compared to the Islanders losing Barzal. That's not a good argument for Barzal carrying the team, it just shows that he's an important piece. I don't think the Islanders could withstand a loss of Horvat right now either, or Varlamov for that matter (not to mention we saw a very similar Islanders team make the playoffs last year without Barzal with a similar season point total).

I'm certainly not minimizing his contributions, I'm trying to fairly describing what it is. Someone mentioned he's carrying the Islanders and that's not really the situation. He's playing an important role and contributing towards this push for the playoffs.

Good debate. Kuch is better, has rings to prove it too. Also kuch, I agree has a much more talented supporting cast that have rings too. I would not suspect #86 carrying the isles to cups but what do I know. I'm tickling in a 2 ft birdie putt on hole #1. LGI.

I don't think swapping Kucherov and Barzal gives the Islanders a Stanley Cup winning roster this year but they'd be more of a threat for sure.