Mat Barzal WILL take a huge step back next season

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Lol even if you compare both players draft +3 , Barzal still had the better season. Why don't you compare them both at age 21?

Tavares definitely has more to give with the amount of hype he received pre draft. He hasn't really lived up to most of it.

Tavares finished 7th in points and 20th in goals in his D+3, Barzal finished 13th in points and 90th in goals

 

[Peggy]

Don't get me wrong, I like this kid alot. great hands, speed and a deadly hockey IQ.
However that being said hes going have a huge drop off in points next year.
Teams will be looking at him a lot closer and have their top defense on him
If JT doesn't resign, he will be relied on to go up against top centers in the NHL, something he isn't ready for.
Add all this into a team that has no defense or goal tending his plus minus is going take a hit.

I can still see him reaching the 60 point mark but i cant expect anything close to the 80 plus he put up last year

The fact thst you sais he "WILL" makes your thread arrogant
No one knows anything for certain ans your reasons are based off some made up hypothetical that's just a possibility
Not a certainty

 

[Icebreakers]

Tavares finished 7th in points and 20th in goals in his D+3, Barzal finished 13th in points and 90th in goals

Yeah and Tavares had 3 years in the league at that time and Barzal lead the team in scoring even when John Tavares was on his team when he was entering his 9th season in the league. Barzal is a huge reason why some Islanders fans didnt even care when JT left.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Least shocking prediction ever and I 100% agree. Bailey, Moulson, Paranteau, Barzal, Okposo, Nielsen. What is the common denominator with them all? All average players who had above averages season(s) with JT and fell down to earth hard post JT.

 

[boredmale]

Least shocking prediction ever and I 100% agree. Bailey, Moulson, Paranteau, Barzal, Okposo, Nielsen. What is the common denominator with them all? All average players who had above averages season(s) with JT and fell down to earth hard post JT.

Parenteau actually scored at a higher PPG rate with Colorado the year he signed with them then the year he left the Islanders(which was his highest PPG rate with the Islanders)

 

[Thrasymachus]

Least shocking prediction ever and I 100% agree. Bailey, Moulson, Paranteau, Barzal, Okposo, Nielsen. What is the common denominator with them all? All average players who had above averages season(s) with JT and fell down to earth hard post JT.

how much have you watched Barzal play lol? All those other players are wingers, Barzal didn't play much with Tavares. Separate lines. Even on the PP they were usually on different units

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

how much have you watched Barzal play lol? All those other players are wingers, Barzal didn't play much with Tavares. Separate lines. Even on the PP they were usually on different units

Ill concede here. Only 17 of Barzals points had Tavares on the scoresheet as well.

 

[RogerRoger]

Yeah and Tavares had 3 years in the league at that time and Barzal lead the team in scoring even when John Tavares was on his team when he was entering his 9th season in the league. Barzal is a huge reason why some Islanders fans didnt even care when JT left.

That's really silly. You should care if you lose a top 15 center for nothing. Even more so when you had the cap space to sign him.

 

[McFlyingV]

Yeah and Tavares had 3 years in the league at that time and Barzal lead the team in scoring even when John Tavares was on his team when he was entering his 9th season in the league. Barzal is a huge reason why some Islanders fans didnt even care when JT left.

Those fans must not be very smart then because losing Tavares is an enormous hit to the quality of your team. Not trying to rehash any old wounds for islander fans, but that is just horrible logic.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

I think Barzal has a better chance of breaking 100 points next season than dropping down to 60.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Ill concede here. Only 17 of Barzals points had Tavares on the scoresheet as well.

I would agree with you though that Tavares can turn total journeymen into NHL'ers

 

[sabremike]

Least shocking prediction ever and I 100% agree. Bailey, Moulson, Paranteau, Barzal, Okposo, Nielsen. What is the common denominator with them all? All average players who had above averages season(s) with JT and fell down to earth hard post JT.

Everyone else has pointed out Barzal only played with Pajama Boy on the power play. I'll point out that Okposo was an all star until he, you know, nearly died. I'll also point out that last year Bailey was very good in his own right and NOT a product of playing with PJB.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

no, you're the one trying to pretend a D+1 rookie season and a D+3 rookie season is an apples to apples comparison. don't act like others are in the wrong for recognizing the advantage Barzal had

Look at the age difference. Tavares was 19 as a rookie, while Barzal was 20. You also can't ignore the fact Tavares had 4 full years of junior before entering the NHL.

You're making it sound like Tavares played in junior only 2 years, got drafted at 18, then made the NHL after only two years in junior. Barzal had no more development time than Tavares did.

Years in junior:
Tavares - 4
Barzal - 4

Age when rookie in the NHL:
Tavares - 19
Barzal - 20

This constant bringing up of D+1 and D+3 completely ignores the fact Tavares had an extra year of junior than most draft eligible players because of his late birthdate. The fact is he was one year younger than Barzal and had the exact same number of junior seasons for development.

 

[SI90]

Look at the age difference. Tavares was 19 as a rookie, while Barzal was 20. You also can't ignore the fact Tavares had 4 full years of junior before entering the NHL.

You're making it sound like Tavares played in junior only 2 years, got drafted at 18, then made the NHL after only two years in junior. Barzal had no more development time than Tavares did.

Years in junior:
Tavares - 4
Barzal - 4

Age when rookie in the NHL:
Tavares - 19
Barzal - 20

This constant bringing up of D+1 and D+3 completely ignores the fact Tavares had an extra year of junior than most draft eligible players because of his late birthdate. The fact is he was one year younger than Barzal and had the exact same number of junior seasons for development.

Tavares just missed the cut for the 2008 draft.
Also, even if you compare Tavares sophomore season (20 year old season) to Barzals 20 year old season, Barzal still was way better. Obviously different teams but 20yr old VS 20yr old is more than fair to compare.

85 points isn’t easy to come by. I also believe that it’s entirely possible that Barzal takes a step forward but may have less points. If he gets 70-75pts and plays really well defensively under Trotz I don’t see that as regression or a “step back”

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Tavares just missed the cut for the 2008 draft.
Also, even if you compare Tavares sophomore season (20 year old season) to Barzals 20 year old season, Barzal still was way better. Obviously different teams but 20yr old VS 20yr old is more than fair to compare.

85 points isn’t easy to come by. I also believe that it’s entirely possible that Barzal takes a step forward but may have less points. If he gets 70-75pts and plays really well defensively under Trotz I don’t see that as regression or a “step back”

I just think people who stick with D+1 and D+2 and D+3 without looking at the context miss the entire point. That stuff is used in normal situations where one player has much less development time than another (ie. an 18 year old with only 2 years in junior versus a 20 year old with 4 years in junior). It is NOT used when two players literally had as much development time as each other.

The whole point of D+1, etc. is to take into account development time. But the problem in the Tavares situation is he got just as much development time as Barzal, due to his late birthdate and early acceptance into the OHL. So using his D+1 to compare to Barzal's just doesn't apply like in a normal situation.

It would be like if a player is drafted at age 20 while another player is drafted at age 18. If both don't play in the NHL until age 21, it would be idiotic to say you can't compare their rookie years because the first player is only in his D+1 year while the other is in his D+3 year.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yeah and Tavares had 3 years in the league at that time and Barzal lead the team in scoring even when John Tavares was on his team when he was entering his 9th season in the league. Barzal is a huge reason why some Islanders fans didnt even care when JT left.

"Lol even if you compare both players draft +3 , Barzal still had the better season"
this is what you said. Are you backtracking now? Also, Tavares led his team in scoring too. Only it was by 12 points as opposed to 1

 

[Icebreakers]

"Lol even if you compare both players draft +3 , Barzal still had the better season"
this is what you said. Are you backtracking now? Also, Tavares led his team in scoring too. Only it was by 12 points as opposed to 1

Barzal linemates were worse lol. Its not as simple as leading by x amount of points. Outscoring Tavares on the same team when he's in his prime and your in your rookie season is amazing.

 

[Islesfan22]

News flash

theres a thing called matchups on offense too. I know the Islanders havent had one in over a few decades now but a shutdown line will be put against Barzal every game from now on

News flash when you can skate and pass as good as Barzal he's still going to produce as long as he plays with guys who can put the puck in the net which he will. There is nobody in there mind who would have predicted Barzal would get more points then Tavares. Kid is a special talent.

 

[SI90]

Tavares finished 7th in points and 20th in goals in his D+3, Barzal finished 13th in points and 90th in goals

But still better than Marner.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

But still better than Marner.

What does Marner have to do with that? Good grief. he said to compare their D+3 seasons

 

[biotk]

how much have you watched Barzal play lol? All those other players are wingers, Barzal didn't play much with Tavares. Separate lines. Even on the PP they were usually on different units

Barzal played very little with Tavares on 5v5 (2%). But it is not the case that they were usually on different PP units. 88% of Barzal's PP minutes were with Tavares (and 91% of his PP GF).

 

[lawrence]

Losing a Tavares is a huge step for a team no matter how you put it. the team will have to move on, Barzal will be challenged by the team to lead his team in offense, and grow his game.

"huge step back" what this does mean? even if he gets 75 points it's still a good year.

 

[biotk]

It would be like if a player is drafted at age 20 while another player is drafted at age 18. If both don't play in the NHL until age 21, it would be idiotic to say you can't compare their rookie years because the first player is only in his D+1 year while the other is in his D+3 year.

My understanding (the way I have always used and seen D+ used) is that D signifies the what would be the players first eligible draft year and not necessarily the year in which a player was drafted. Doing it the second way would be especially confusing for players who re-enter the draft 2 years after originally being drafted as they would have two D+1 years and two D+2 years.

 

[CodeE]

Least shocking prediction ever and I 100% agree. Bailey, Moulson, Paranteau, Barzal, Okposo, Nielsen. What is the common denominator with them all? All average players who had above averages season(s) with JT and fell down to earth hard post JT.

Ill concede here. Only 17 of Barzals points had Tavares on the scoresheet as well.

It really is staggering to me the amount of haters who look to degrade Barzal based simply on things they're making up.

First teams didn't put any defensive pressure on Barzal (and don't let those stats that prove otherwise mislead you), now Barzal was apparently Tavares' winger this past season like Moulson and "Paranteau" before him. Yet posters puff out their chests and can't wait to spread outright fictional stories just to trash the poor kid.

 

[Future GOAT]

K thanks.