News Article: Martin Brodeur hopes Lundqvist can win 500 but its going to be tough

Nyrvana

Registered User
Aug 29, 2008
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Cups* sry.

So you're saying these guys played on Stanley Cup TEAMS…not sure how that makes Henrik less than those guys…like I said, the CupS* Hasek won, he didn't even have to earn.

TEAM. Keyword.

Again, why Trophies and Stats aren't all telling. Why is this so hard to understand for some people to grasp? WE need to reevaluate? I guess.

Well I really hope Henrik does "earn" one or two. I would really enjoy that.

Facts are facts as of right now. The three guys I mentioned are in a modern day league of their own. Henrik isn't close ANY way you look at it - stats, awards, or "reality" included.

Argue about trap systems, or better teams, and I'll argue about bigger pads and Renney's defense and Tortorella's shot blocking defense. Funny how his stats went plummeting this year after Tort's left. 1.97, 2.05 GAA to 2.51 GAA at the moment. Currently his worst season as a professional.

When you are talking about the GOAT you should have the stats, awards, and reality. I'm sure there are a lot of people that could say Roy was the best because he played within the "worst" defensive systems and had the worst defenseman.
 

Nyrvana

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Nor should he.

Speaking of that…Roy won a Conn Smythe in the face of the fact that Brodeur lost that Finals for his team.

…Uhhh does Brodeur have a Conn Smythe? Yep, Hank's nowhere near the most valuable of his team. No way Hank doesn't win the Conn if ever we got to the Finals.

Giguere won it in 2002-2003 season. Even though Brodeur posted 16 wins, 1.65 GAA, .934 SV%, and 7 shutouts - including 3 in the stanley cup.

The other years?

94-95: .927 SV% 1.67 GAA
99-00: .927 SV% 1.61 GAA

So yeah. Probably could have deserved those.

But, I think I've had enough of defending Brodeur for one lifetime.
 

CHGoalie27

Don't blame the goalie!
Oct 5, 2009
15,884
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Giguere won it in 2002-2003 season. Even though Brodeur posted 16 wins, 1.65 GAA, .934 SV%, and 7 shutouts - including 3 in the stanley cup.

The other years?

94-95: .927 SV% 1.67 GAA
99-00: .927 SV% 1.61 GAA

So yeah. Probably could have deserved those.

But, I think I've had enough of defending Brodeur for one lifetime.

I guess if Giguere didn't have the best goalie performance we've probably ever seen that year. Sure Timmy and Quick put up numbers…but is there a stat for rebound control? Not that I've seen, and Giggy miraculously left like no rebounds that year, so noticeably something I've yet seen replicated by anyone including him.

Glad you brought that year up :)

Looking at the shots against column. Uncle Daddy played in 3 more games and Giguere still faced 75 more shots(About or less 3 games worth)! How do you interpret that? I'd say it showed.

Honestly looking at the #s they are really close and Brodeur made up for his blunder in 01, he was great that year. It was probably his 2nd best looking Cup championship. I thought he could've had it 95. His worst looking stats for a Cup win? Best looking performance. Of course IMO.

Then again, he deserved a few less trophies(esp Luongo 07). Not sure how it al levels out.

What a mess!
 
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trilobyte

Regulated User
Dec 9, 2008
25,588
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Calgary, Alberta
Martin Brodeur is passive-aggressive when it comes to talking about competitors.
He always acts this way. He also rarely admits in a straight forward manner to having a bad game. That is what he is.
 

Fitzy

Very Stable Genius
Jan 29, 2009
35,083
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Martin Brodeur is passive-aggressive when it comes to talking about competitors.
He always acts this way. He also rarely admits in a straight forward manner to having a bad game. That is what he is.

Other sports have some top level players that are actually classy. He doesn't have to be the way he is.
 

Gresch04

Registered User
Feb 12, 2009
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Agreed. Marty had 15 years of play behind some all-star defense that excelled at trap hockey. Any goalie that was able to stay healthy during that era would be near marty's stats, especially playing on a team with a defensive squad run by Scott Stevens, Scott Nediermayer, and Bruce Driver...

Another factor is that even in his prime Marty wasn't the best of his era - Hasek was AMAZING and Roy was better as well. Hard to say the best ever when he wasn't even the best of his era.

Marty is the Emmitt Smith of hockey - excellent but overrated because of his supporting cast that would have made anyone look great and someone great look exceptional (which he was not). He's still a special player - but if you look at pure talent he has nothing on Henrik IMO (save % is a more telling stat and Henrik at .920 vs. .912 is closer to Hasek's remarkable .922). Just like Barry Sanders and a HOST of other backs are superior to Emmitt.

So if health is on his side he's at least in the same top 10 conversation - if he wins a few cups he surpasses Marty. Wins alone doesn't dictate greatness.
 

trilobyte

Regulated User
Dec 9, 2008
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Calgary, Alberta
Other sports have some top level players that are actually classy. He doesn't have to be the way he is.

Oh, you make my point. I point out to people the same thing that you do. I find that when I reference numerous instances of low class behaviour by Marty (his never-ending excuses), people think I have an agenda. It's right there in front of them, but they just would rather not recognize it. He comes across as rather petty.
 

Pegi90*

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Mar 3, 2014
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Helsinki, Finland
Another factor is that even in his prime Marty wasn't the best of his era - Hasek was AMAZING and Roy was better as well. Hard to say the best ever when he wasn't even the best of his era.

Marty is the Emmitt Smith of hockey - excellent but overrated because of his supporting cast that would have made anyone look great and someone great look exceptional (which he was not). He's still a special player - but if you look at pure talent he has nothing on Henrik IMO (save % is a more telling stat and Henrik at .920 vs. .912 is closer to Hasek's remarkable .922). Just like Barry Sanders and a HOST of other backs are superior to Emmitt.

So if health is on his side he's at least in the same top 10 conversation - if he wins a few cups he surpasses Marty. Wins alone doesn't dictate greatness.

martin brodeur isnt just the greatest goalie of all time, hes one the greatest hockey players of all time. he has gretzky like numbers compared to others, almost all notable records etc. in my opinion hes underrated compared to what he has done. rules had to be changed cause of his puckhandling ability, thats definition of greatness.

hasek was good but he "benefitted" of that system he played behind. u can check stats for hasek and he has clearly 4 year period he played for 3 of them for red wins and 1 for sens and that 1 sens year middle of that period he recorded a sv % of 92.5 when his 3 red wings seasons avg was 90.7 because he didnt face many shots as he did with the sabres and sens. same happened with luongo when he played for the panthers in early stage of his career, had his career high sv % and after he went to canucks, he had still decent numbers and got nominated for hart and vezina etc but never had that high sv %. so its easier to get higher sv % once u face more shots, its proven fact since if u face 35-40 shots a game, there aint 15 breakaways, dozens of 2v1's or 3v1's etc. most of them are blue line shots without traffic or just dump ins for hoping possible rebounds etc SO WHAT A SAVE THAT WAS!!

u are also forgetting the fact that in todays NHL theres 10 guys having 92.00% when it was 90s literally just a few guys even we had one of the greatest hockey goaltender era ever. they didnt even count sv % 80s or something, not really sure when some stat freaks wanted something to do and they added that stat there.

also martin brodeur has the highest sv % of goaltenders who has played over 1250 games in the NHL, 91.3%. highest GGA of goaltenders who has played over 1250 games in NHL 2.24. most shutouts, most minutes played, most games played, most shots saved, most this, most that etc. all that is just definition of dedication to this game. u cant play this long, literally being 15 years in his prime and 20 years of pure excellence without being an excellent goaltender.

henrik is a great goalie, one of the best in the league but u should not even put him in same sentence with marty(atleast in this stage of his career, 9 seasons played) thats just too disrespectful.
 
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Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
Lundqvist is not in Brodeurs category yet. The Vezina is voted by GMs. Brodeur won back-to-back Vezina's during Lundqvists prime - post lockout and non-trapping.

Brodeur outplayed Lundqvist in the 2012 CF. Was that Devils team stacked? The Devils won that series because Brodeur made the saves Lundqvist didnt.

People think Brodeur was the product of a system? Thats stupid.

The 1993 Devils were mediocre. Terreri stunk. They took the same roster from 1993 into 1994. The SAME. Literally. Lou made minor moves. He got rid of Stastny and added Bobby Carpenter and Peluso.

So why did the 1994 team finish with the 2nd best record in the NHL, beat Hasek and Boston in the playoffs, and come 20 mins from the SCF?

Hmmmm.
 
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Jabroni

The People's Champ
Jun 1, 2008
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Lundqvist - 1 Vezina, 5 Vezina finalists, 1 top-4, 2 top-6 in first eight years in the league.

Brodeur - 0 Vezina, 3 Vezina finalists, 2 top-4, 1 top-5 in first eight years.

2 Stanley Cups

Brodeur's run after all the Cups is something Lundqvist needs to match.

3 Stanley Cups for Brodeur no? He played in 1995.
 

Pegi90*

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Mar 3, 2014
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Helsinki, Finland
Lundqvist is not in Brodeurs category yet. The Vezina is voted by GMs. Brodeur won back-to-back Vezina's during Lundqvists prime - post lockout and non-trapping.

Brodeur outplayed Lundqvist in the 2012 CF. Was that Devils team stacked? The Devils won that series because Brodeur made the saves Lundqvist didnt.

People think Brodeur was the product of a system? Thats stupid.

The 1993 Devils were mediocre. Terreri stunk. They took the same roster from 1993 into 1994. The SAME. Literally. Lou made minor moves. He got rid of Stastny and added Bobby Carpenter and Peluso.

So why did the 1994 team finish with the 2nd best record in the NHL, beat Hasek and Boston in the playoffs, and come 20 mins from the SCF?

Hmmmm.
norris, vezina, selke etc which are always complicated to vote, some of these people are wanting dif things. with vezina u are looking prob wins or maybe sv% or gga. with norris u look points or actually +/- and overal package. selke is all same. so being nomited is good enough for me, i dont count those voting based trophys that high on my list.

marty could have won more vezinas or less, doesnt matter for me. he could have won also conn smythes or hart's but instead of it he has those records which are there no matter whats ur opinion.

also trap was possible only because of brodeur remember that. its compliment towards him when u even mention that trap, its like mentioning his puckhandling skills in a different way.
 
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eco's bones

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Jul 21, 2005
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norris, vezina, selke etc which are always complicated to vote, some of these people are wanting dif things. with vezina u are looking prob wins or maybe sv% or gga. with norris u look points or actually +/- and overal package. selke is all same. so being nomited is good enough for me, i dont count those voting based trophys that high on my list.

marty could have won more vezinas or less, doesnt matter for me. he could have won also conn smythes or hart's but instead of it he has those records which are there no matter whats ur opinion.

also trap was possible only because of brodeur remember that. its compliment towards him when u even mention that trap, its like mentioning his puckhandling skills in a different way.

Stats are fine and all. They don't tell the whole story. Goaltending may be the hardest position to evaluate. So much depends on the team a goaltender has in front of him. Gilles Meloche would easily IMO be a HOF'er if he had played for a good team instead of all those years for the California Golden Seals. Goaltending stats from the 90's don't equate very well to goaltending stats today. The equipment changes--the rule changes tend to have more effect on goaltenders than other player IMO. Comparing goaltenders from one era to the next--forget it. Basically it comes down to winning. Brodeur has won more games than anybody. OTOH his career has been longer than most. Wouldn't know how to compare him to Frankie Brimsek, Terry Sawchuk, Ken Dryden, Billy Smith, Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek and I wouldn't want to. Dryden did not play all that long but he played for great teams--year after year his Canadiens seemed to lose like 10-12 games a year and that was it but he had three HOF'er on his D and all kinds of HOF'ers among his forwards.

Brodeur's just about done but he's a first ballot HOF'er without a doubt. He won three championships. Be happy with that. As for this thread he's made it plain in the past that he doesn't care for Lundqvist--why try to be nice now?
 

Gresch04

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Feb 12, 2009
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Ridiculous. Osgood has cups and no stats. Lundqvist has the stats no cups. Brodeur, Hasek, Roy, have both. You need both to be in that discussion.

This is ridiculous - where is this "rule"? You're making luck (being on the right team) as important as talent. It's not like Henrik failed to win a cup when he was a favorite (which is the Peyton Manning problem - chokes when it counts most - he's not THE best overall because of his SB failures but he's still top 4 or 5).

Henrik is Dan Marino right now - been on mediocre teams, not much opportunity to win championships yet has all the right stats. Marino is ABSOLUTELY in the top 5 and Henrik will be IF he keeps the pace and gets 450+ wins. Championships help but are not a prerequisite to being one of the best of all-time.
 

Gresch04

Registered User
Feb 12, 2009
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I'm trolling because I disagree with a non-factual argument??? You're obviously a Devils fan - enjoy your goalie - he IS great. He IS top 10 all-time. He DID play with a gifted defense in a trap era - which is an actual FACT. He's much like Emmitt Smith - top 10 but not the best ever given the other variables that benefitted him. My reasonable opinion based on similarities between two players in different sports. Feel free to disagree just don't call it trolling because it disrupts your precious fantasy about your favorite goalie.

BTW, relying on stats for a tiny pool of goalies who played so many games is silly.
 
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HellOnIce

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Jun 28, 2007
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I think Marty's bigger point could be true in the sense of it's so much harder to have a good team in the long haul with the difficulty in keeping a dominant team as the Devils did in the 90s.

I will say this though - given some of the comments on playing behind great defenses, which he obviously did in the Cup years (as Cup winning teams tend to be elite) - remember Marty won 2 Vezinas after Stevens and Niedermayer left the team.
 

Unpredictable1

Registered User
Jan 27, 2008
4,266
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Alberta
Brodeur saying anything nice about Lundqvist is kinda like that rich snobby kid that only talks to you when it's convenient for them.

Brodeur has every right to be that kid though.

Any Devils' fan coming in here saying the Devils' system never heavily benefited Brodeur's stats in the mid to late 90s needs to seriously go rewatch their team and how they played - or wasn't born then.

Kinda like St. Louis goalies the last couple of years. If they had a bonafide starter like Miller now that can stay with, and a team concept that stays, who knows what could happen but Brodeur's hill is pretty high.

But that's where the goalie himself comes into play, Brodeur over his career has made certain stops when his team really needed him to. Regardless of the fact that he played behind some strong defensive teams.
 

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