Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion Part XIX - Bert's Back in the Thread Title Game

[Man Bear Pig]

I wouldn't blame Dubas for the Zaitsev and Marleau contracts.

But under your logic maybe I can?

Dont worry, I'm sure you'll find a way to blame him. It's what you do.

 

[Walshy7]

Greedy, 11x4, RFA>UFA ,Paul, Dregileaks

Dregileaks, I really like that one. Had a great chuckle. not sure if you came up with it or if its been used before but kudos

 

[Nineteen67]

Dregileaks, I really like that one. Had a great chuckle. not sure if you came up with it or if its been used before but kudos

Came up with it on the fly as I was typing the post....

 

[X66]

I want everyone to remember one thing.

It was Nylander himself that said he called his agent in the last hour to get a deal done, and then they settled on a caphit between Ehlers and Pastrnak.

That should tell you that Nylander's camp wanted a lot more than that and they weren't budging.

As much as it sucked, Dubas showed a ton of balls by almost letting him sit, and all signs point to that would have happened had Nylander not got involved.

If Dubas caves there and gives Nylander an 8 mil contract etc, we're in big trouble this off-season.

 

[Marshy]

I want everyone to remember one thing.

It was Nylander himself that said he called his agent in the last hour to get a deal done, and then they settled on a caphit between Ehlers and Pastrnak.

That should tell you that Nylander's camp wanted a lot more than that and they weren't budging.

As much as it sucked, Dubas showed a ton of balls by almost letting him sit, and all signs point to that would have happened had Nylander not got involved.

If Dubas caves there and gives Nylander an 8 mil contract etc, we're in big trouble this off-season.

I don't know which faction annoys me more. The Dubas can't get Marner signed crowd or the Dubas caved to the first 2 crowd. It's almost like we had unprecedented ELC production all expiring at the same time.

 

[Zybalto]

do you have a site that lets you sort by date range rather than season?

The best one that sorts by date is natural stat trick but it lacks the QoC QoT, etc. numbers although I love their line tool option which helps a bit in this regard to see how players perform with certain teammates.

There really are no perfect sites and not even a universal standard for implementing score effects and usage so I find it nice to look at different sites but I havnt been scouting for any new ones.

Zeke will probably have the best idea of where to look as hes been an analytics junkie longer than most around here.

 

[Morbo]

I wouldn't blame Dubas for the Zaitsev and Marleau contracts.

But under your logic maybe I can?

If anyone can do it, it's you.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I want everyone to remember one thing.

It was Nylander himself that said he called his agent in the last hour to get a deal done, and then they settled on a caphit between Ehlers and Pastrnak.

That should tell you that Nylander's camp wanted a lot more than that and they weren't budging.

As much as it sucked, Dubas showed a ton of balls by almost letting him sit, and all signs point to that would have happened had Nylander not got involved.

If Dubas caves there and gives Nylander an 8 mil contract etc, we're in big trouble this off-season.

 

[justafan22]

They can't have another Nylander situation this year.

If it gets past say halloween, let him sit out the year. This team CANNOT afford another distraction.

 

[moon111]

I wouldn't be surprised if Marner's contract has gone up and down the NHLPA and the G.M.'s/Ownership in the league.
This could easily set a precedence that hurts other teams. Maybe Toronto doesn't care, but how much pressure do
teams like Winnipeg put on the league knowing Marner 's signing could hamper their profits by causing Laine's
contract to rise further based on what Marner goes for. Toronto went on buying players for years and the other
teams put an end to it just as the Leafs had loaded up on roster with a few HOF players in the mix.

 

[Marshy]

The bluffing winds blow both ways. Marner camp threatened offersheets.

Dubas should tell Ferris and Paul that his hands are tied and that orders from above are that if there is no deal by the end of week 1 of the regular season that he will be traded or sit the year.

 

[supermann_98]

Trade him for EP and Boeser.

Vancouver laughs at this proposal tbh

 

[Marshy]

Vancouver laughs at this proposal tbh

When we add Matthews to make it a bit more fair, they still have to add something.....too much back and forth TBH.

 

[ACC1224]

The bluffing winds blow both ways. Marner camp threatened offersheets.

Dubas should tell Ferris and Paul that his hands are tied and that orders from above are that if there is no deal by the end of week 1 of the regular season that he will be traded or sit the year.

I don't see what good that will do and I doubt that Dubas would want to admit that he's not in charge.

 

[Walshy7]

I wouldn't be surprised if Marner's contract has gone up and down the NHLPA and the G.M.'s/Ownership in the league.
This could easily set a precedence that hurts other teams. Maybe Toronto doesn't care, but how much pressure do
teams like Winnipeg put on the league knowing Marner 's signing could hamper their profits by causing Laine's
contract to rise further based on what Marner goes for. Toronto went on buying players for years and the other
teams put an end to it just as the Leafs had loaded up on roster with a few HOF players in the mix.

that would be collusion, and the NHLPA would have a pretty good case if it were true

 

[Morbo]

The bluffing winds blow both ways. Marner camp threatened offersheets.

Dubas should tell Ferris and Paul that his hands are tied and that orders from above are that if there is no deal by the end of week 1 of the regular season that he will be traded or sit the year.

I think this is likely going to Dec 1st again.

really there isn't any true pressure point until then, the Leafs have maneuvered their cap so that Marner could be signed during the year, so they clearly know this has a good chance of going the distance.

I don't think they will trade him at this point...having said that, Marner is not getting a new father anytime soon, so things aren't going to be any different at contract time in the future. He may not have a long Leaf career if the waters are poisoned too much here.

 

[Marshy]

I don't see what good that will do and I doubt that Dubas would want to admit that he's not in charge.

He'd be lying.

But you're probably right. Perhaps he should just stick to the Nice Guy Eddie approach.

 

[Marshy]

I think this is likely going to Dec 1st again.

really there isn't any true pressure point until then, the Leafs have maneuvered their cap so that Marner could be signed during the year, so they clearly know this has a good chance of going the distance.

I don't think they will trade him at this point...having said that, Marner is not getting a new father anytime soon, so things aren't going to be any different at contract time in the future. He may not have a long Leaf career if the waters are poisoned too much here.

I've heard differing takes on this. LTIR space doesn't accrue the same way as cap space does so can Dubas sign him on Dec 1 for the same AAV he can sign him on Oct 1?

 

[ACC1224]

He'd be lying.

But you're probably right. Perhaps he should just stick to the Nice Guy Eddie approach.

Not sure but he had better figure something out. Wasting another season with a top end guy missing isn't a good look.

 

[Morbo]

I've heard differing takes on this. LTIR space doesn't accrue the same way as cap space does so can Dubas sign him on Dec 1 for the same AAV he can sign him on Oct 1?

This is why they did the Clarkson move. I mean Brandon Pridham wrote the rules so I'm not too worried here. But you have to have the cap space to pay somebody the same money over a shorter period.

 

[hullsy47]

They can't have another Nylander situation this year.

If it gets past say halloween, let him sit out the year. This team CANNOT afford another distraction.

I think your bang on .u cant have a guy come in in December and do jack sh@t for the rest of the year collecting 10 mill
I think Shanahan has stated to the marner camp this very warning
let 1 of these RFAs sit a year for the greater good

 

[egd27]

Because of Montreals really bad offer sheet.

It may have been bad for the Habs, but was ok for Aho, or why did he sign a really bad offer sheet?

 

[Mess]

I've heard differing takes on this. LTIR space doesn't accrue the same way as cap space does so can Dubas sign him on Dec 1 for the same AAV he can sign him on Oct 1?

That is correct as LTIR does not accrue, so $10.55 mil [Horton + Clarkson] total is same on day #1 of the season and Dec 1st, but the cap hit for a player in year #1 goes up significantly if they sign late.

If Marner was signed in the offseason they could use the full $10.5 mil LTIR, however by Dec 1st a $10 mil AAV would have a $14-15 AVV cap hit.. Willy's $7.5 mil AAV contract became $10.27 mil in year #1 and $6.96 in all the other years due to how the CBA handles these late signings.

So Leafs could need to find +$5 mil more cap space above LTIR if Marner held out until Nov 3oth.

PS. The Ottawa Senators acquired forward Ryan Callahan and a fifth-round pick in 2020 from the Tampa Bay Lightning on Tuesday for goaltender Mike Condon and a 2020 sixth-round pick. Callahan announced earlier this off-season he will not play again after being diagnosed with a degenerative back disease. He will join Marian Gaborik and Clarke McArthur on long-term injured reserve with the Senators, raising their LTIR total to $15.3 million.

Maybe Dubas should have helped out TB and acquired Callanhan's LTIR dead contract [$5.8 mil AAV LTIR] also to up their own LTIR by +5.8 mil to allow Marner to sign by Dec 1st.

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

I wonder how long this saga will go on? Are they waiting for Hortons cap to come off the books or something? They definitely won't let Marner sit out they need him.

 

[Heisen]

Bitch Marner is done in this city.