Marlies GDT: Marlies vs. Monsters, Series Talk | 4-0 Marlies | How does a team with Liljegren sweep? edition

[JT AM da real deal]

I have watched games, and Lilly is the better defensive player based on stats and the eye test. Sandin turns the puck over a lot especially in the offensive zone. They are both good and almost ready for the NHL. None of them are ahead of the other, and it isn't a matter of "not even close"

That's fine we completely disagree. Sandin is far superior defensively to Lilly right now. It is not even remotely close. Lilly can't stand up on his feet in his own end and is a turnover machine in his own end-and that is from his own coach who has told him repeatedly he needs to work on those skills. I am very close to saying Lily will be a total bust at NHL level. Offensively he does show some skill I give him that. And many other scouts around NHL are in agreement. For instance the LA Kings said they had ZERO interest in him when Leafs and Kings discussed Muzzy. His stock around NHL started to drop before the draft. and it is dropped much farther since he started playing pro.

 

[The Iceman]

That's fine we completely disagree. Sandin is far superior defensively to Lilly right now. It is not even remotely close. Lilly can't stand up on his feet in his own end and is a turnover machine in his own end-and that is from his own coach who has told him repeatedly he needs to work on those skills. I am very close to saying Lily will be a total bust at NHL level. Offensively he does show some skill I give him that. And many other scouts around NHL are in agreement. For instance the LA Kings said they had ZERO interest in him when Leafs and Kings discussed Muzzy. His stock around NHL started to drop before the draft. and it is dropped much farther since he started playing pro.

I highly doubt LA said they have zero interest in Lilly. He is an asset, why wouldn't they want an asset?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Do you think Lily will have a serious shot at the 3rd pair for next year on the Leafs?

That is a great question and super tough to answer. He is very young and I am a little old school so I tend to believe you don't want your young superstar to lose his confidence. Also there is the Babs factor. I think Rosen deserves his shot and I would be worried with 2 rookie's in lineup at same time. So I would say no. But if you asked me about 5 years from now I would say Rielly and Sandin will lead the team. In fact I think Sandin will be the superior defensive defender in 5 years. But Rielly is a much more explosive skater and his offensive game has really developed. Even his defensive game has really improved too. I am high on Leafs defense in 5 years.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I highly doubt LA said they have zero interest in Lilly. He is an asset, why wouldn't they want an asset?

That is directly from their Ontario scout

 

[Orfieus]

If by lie you mean completely 100% true, but you refuse to accept it because it doesn't match your beliefs, sure. I mean I went through all the game logs and you didn't do a single thing and don't know anything either.

Liljegren was injured during his (and the Marlies) 19th game. He did not have a single PP point from game 10 until that injury, and had only been on the ice for a single PP goal from the time of his 10th game until his injury during his 19th game. During that time he was getting significantly reduced PP time, with Rosen getting most of the PP1 and Sandin getting most of the PP2. That single PP goal that he was on the ice for occurred when the Marlies had back to back PPs. Sandin scored PP goals in games 14 and 18 (that is games 14 and 18 for the Marlies - and Liljegren - but games 6 and 10 Sandin).

If you want to talk about trying to mislead people and you want to talk about pathetic you should be talking about yourself.

First thing I said was Liljigren had a slow start, so nice try on that front

Secondly AHL does not report icetime and especially does not report specific ice time (like how many minutes someone got on the PP) so how are you determining this by "game logs" is beyond me. So what you are really saying is "I think" or "I noticed" and while I agree Liljigren was not on the PP2 when he got back from injury but I do remember watching him play on the 2PP before the injury (Rosen was on the 1st PP since he is the Marlies #1D)

edit: The AHL is thinking about adding ice times for next season, The AHL is considering making time on ice data public



Third I'm not even sure if you watch the Marlies to begin with, because I do (I spent the money to buy home&away games) so if you are only stat watching why should anyone care about your opinion on how someone is playing?

Forth, are you going to stop with this or are you going to continue with your BS agenda?

 

[biotk]

I highly doubt LA said they have zero interest in Lilly. He is an asset, why wouldn't they want an asset?

The rumor from Friedman was that the Kings opted for Durzi over Liljegren. I suspect if that is true it was not a one for one swap.

For instance they may have been offered: Grundstrom, Durzi, 2019 1st vs Liljegren, some other player, draft pick and went with the Durzi option. If the Kings were high on Durzi they had the draft pick immediately before the Leafs picked him 52OA. If the Kings were down on Liljegren I wouldn't be incredibly surprised. He has battled injuries 3 years in a row. Has some holes in his game and his offensive production has been poor. His biggest strengths are his stretch passes and skating controlled exits which is not really how the Kings play either.

 

[biotk]

First thing I said was Liljigren had a slow start, so nice try on that front

Liljegren did not have a slow start. Slow compared to Sandin and Rosen, but much better than the rest of the season for him and better than most of the previous.

Secondly AHL does not report icetime and especially does not report specific ice time (like how many minutes someone got on the PP) so how are you determining this by "game logs" is beyond me. So what you are really saying is "I think" or "I noticed" and while I agree Liljigren was not on the PP2 when he got back from injury but I do remember watching him play on the 2PP before the injury (Rosen was on the 1st PP since he is the Marlies #1D)

The AHL lists who was on the ice for goals. Liljegren was not on the ice for PP goals (after game 10 - plenty in the first 10 games). Sandin was on the ice for several PP goals and a SH goal against (again starting after game 10, same for Rosen - none before game 10, plenty after, and Subban was like Liljegren in this regard). If you want to make the argument that for the last 8 games before his injury Liljegren received a lot of PP time but the PP was so bad with him that they couldn't score, and that Sandin was not getting PP time but still managed to be on the ice to score 2 PP goals and be on the ice other PP goals/SH goals against, fill your boots. It just makes your argument way, way worse.

Second I went through Twitter posts at the time. Sandin and Rosen being moved to the PP was talked about at the exact time that the numbers support them being moved to the PP and Liljegren (as well as Subban) being moved off.

Third I'm not even sure if you watch the Marlies to begin with, because I do (I spent the money to buy home&away games) so if you are only stat watching why should anyone care about your opinion on how someone is playing?

Forth, are you going to stop with this or are you going to continue with your BS agenda?

Continue countering your lies? Yes. I believe that lies should be countered.

 

[Orfieus]

Liljegren did not have a slow start. Slow compared to Sandin and Rosen, but much better than the rest of the season for him and better than most of the previous.



The AHL lists who was on the ice for goals. Liljegren was not on the ice for PP goals (after game 10 - plenty in the first 10 games). Sandin was on the ice for several PP goals and a SH goal against (again starting after game 10, same for Rosen - none before game 10, plenty after, and Subban was like Liljegren in this regard). If you want to make the argument that for the last 8 games before his injury Liljegren received a lot of PP time but the PP was so bad with him that they couldn't score, and that Sandin was not getting PP time but still managed to be on the ice to score 2 PP goals and be on the ice other PP goals/SH goals against, fill your boots. It just makes your argument way, way worse.

Second I went through Twitter posts at the time. Sandin and Rosen being moved to the PP was talked about at the exact time that the numbers support them being moved to the PP and Liljegren (as well as Subban) being moved off.



Continue countering your lies? Yes. I believe that lies should be countered.

My criticism of you is you talked about ice time (not possible) and only use game logs to judge a player. Liljigren stuggled to start the season but has always been better defensively compared to Sandin while Rosen is better offensively and defensively compared to both Liljigren and Sandin.

 

[nuck]

That's fine we completely disagree. Sandin is far superior defensively to Lilly right now. It is not even remotely close. Lilly can't stand up on his feet in his own end and is a turnover machine in his own end-and that is from his own coach who has told him repeatedly he needs to work on those skills. I am very close to saying Lily will be a total bust at NHL level. Offensively he does show some skill I give him that. And many other scouts around NHL are in agreement. For instance the LA Kings said they had ZERO interest in him when Leafs and Kings discussed Muzzy. His stock around NHL started to drop before the draft. and it is dropped much farther since he started playing pro.

I hadn't heard that. do you have a link?

 

[biotk]

I hadn't heard that. do you have a link?

There is no evidence that the Kings had zero interest in him. The rumour that the Kings might have preferred Durzi over Liljegren comes from here.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I hadn't heard that. do you have a link?

I heard it directly from Eric OTR. Several of their scouts came to watch the Marlies throughout January so you can guarantee that deal was in works for awhile.

 

[biotk]

My criticism of you is you talked about ice time (not possible) and only use game logs to judge a player. Liljigren stuggled to start the season but has always been better defensively compared to Sandin while Rosen is better offensively and defensively compared to both Liljigren and Sandin.

Sure. If it was not clear where I got the information from, I apologize.

I don't believe that Liljegren has been better than Sandin defensively. People have different ideas of what is included in defensive play so I don't really care much, but Sandin is the one that is always claimed to be playing the most minutes when the Marlies are protecting a lead.

 

[biotk]

I heard it directly from Eric OTR. Several of their scouts came to watch the Marlies throughout January so you can guarantee that deal was in works for awhile.

While that may or may not be true. Those scouts were not watching Liljegren in January.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Sure. If it was not clear where I got the information from, I apologize.

I don't believe that Liljegren has been better than Sandin defensively. People have different ideas of what is included in defensive play so I don't really care much, but Sandin is the one that is always claimed to be playing the most minutes when the Marlies are protecting a lead.

Just come watch us play. You can see it yourself. When Sandin has puck in his own end you are completely comfortable. He can get hit and does not lose puck. He makes clean correct passes every time. I know it is hard to believe because he is so young. Honestly if someone told me a 19 year old kid was doing this I would not believe it either.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

While that may or may not be true. Those scouts were not watching Liljegren in January.

Of course not but 3 or 4 of their AHL scouts were at most Marlie games in January clearly looking at our guys. Again this must have been going on in terms of talks for quite some time. FYI it was Sandin they all really wanted. But I am told Dubie let Kings staff know he was not available.

 

[biotk]

Just come watch us play. You can see it yourself. When Sandin has puck in his own end you are completely comfortable. He can get hit and does not lose puck. He makes clean correct passes every time. I know it is hard to believe because he is so young. Honestly if someone told me a 19 year old kid was doing this I would not believe it either.

I do watch the Marlies play. Last year I watched Liljegren play at least a dozen times for the Marlies including several times in the playoffs. This year I have only made it to watch the Marlies 3 times (the three they played in Rochester - I normally go to games in Toronto as well to watch the Marlies as the drive to Toronto is about the same as my drive to Rochester) and Liljegren was out injured for two of them (and Sandin missed all three - injury, WJC, injury). I will be going to some playoff games again this year. I meant to go to the two games in Rochester but couldn't rearrange my schedule and then had planned on game 4 in Toronto but the series didn't get that far. I will for sure be going to at least a game in the next series.

But I did watch Sandin in both the pre-season and during the WJC. On that limited viewing I consider him to be more solid defensively.

 

[stickty111]

Even strength ice time, Lilly is 2nd on the team just behind Rosen.

 

[Field of Dreams]

Good job Marlies and Chief Keefe

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I do watch the Marlies play. Last year I watched Liljegren play at least a dozen times for the Marlies including several times in the playoffs. This year I have only made it to watch the Marlies 3 times (the three they played in Rochester - I normally go to games in Toronto as well to watch the Marlies as the drive to Toronto is about the same as my drive to Rochester) and Liljegren was out injured for two of them (and Sandin missed all three - injury, WJC, injury). I will be going to some playoff games again this year. I meant to go to the two games in Rochester but couldn't rearrange my schedule and then had planned on game 4 in Toronto but the series didn't get that far. I will for sure be going to at least a game in the next series.

But I did watch Sandin in both the pre-season and during the WJC. On that limited viewing I consider him to be more solid defensively.

Great look forward to seeing you at Coca Cola. Safe drive. This kid is something very special.

 

[biotk]

Of course not but 3 or 4 of their AHL scouts were at most Marlie games in January clearly looking at our guys. Again this must have been going on in terms of talks for quite some time. FYI it was Sandin they all really wanted. But I am told Dubie let Kings staff know he was not available.

I am fine with the idea that Kings didn't want him. I just can't say that it is true. I don't think that Liljegren's style matching the King's style and I know that scouts have very diverge views on him.

However, I highly doubt the Leafs' offered: Grundstrom, 2019 1st and your choice of Liljegren/Durzi. If Liljegren was offered I imagine the rest of the package was not the same.

I personally feel that Liljegren improved a lot at over the summer and the early fall of 2017 and has since mostly stagnated. Others will disagree with that assessment. I think that Sandin is way ahead right now. I also love the way Liljegren plays and would have been very ticked off if he had been traded (unless that trade is to Buffalo), so I am happy if other teams are down on him. I am hoping that next year he can put all together and soon thereafter be the kind of NHL D that I projected him to be. So to me the potential upside is still too high to trade him. But I am very aware that Liljegren could turn out to be a no toolbox situation and top out as a 6/7.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I am fine with the idea that Kings didn't want him. I just can't say that it is true. I don't think that Liljegren's style matching the King's style and I know that scouts have very diverge views on him.

However, I highly doubt the Leafs' offered: Grundstrom, 2019 1st and your choice of Liljegren/Durzi. If Liljegren was offered I imagine the rest of the package was not the same.

I personally feel that Liljegren improved a lot at over the summer and the early fall of 2017 and has since mostly stagnated. Others will disagree with that assessment. I think that Sandin is way ahead right now. I also love the way Liljegren plays and would have been very ticked off if he had been traded, so I am happy if other teams are down on him. I am hoping that next year he can put all together and soon thereafter be the kind of NHL D that I projected him to be. So to me the potential upside is still too high to trade him. But I am very aware that Liljegren could turn out to be a no toolbox situation and top out as a 6/7.

The step to the NHL for an AHL kid defender is HUGE. So to project out either of them next year to me is really jumping the gun. But 5 years out I feel very good about Leafs defense core. I hope Leafs do not throw them under the bus like that due to CAP. Give Rosen his shot next year. Resign Hainsey to play with Rosen for 1 more season. That is what I would do.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I cannot believe how inside info is roasted around here. Here is a guy staking his rep on some inside. and he gets roasted.

Lilljegren really does suck. So I believe this guy. The kid is a long way from making the NHL. But he, Liljegren, is a good kid. So lets not put him through all this.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Lilly,Rosen,Borgman and Sandin will be know as the the Swedish Legion next year when they replace Gardiner,Hainsey, Marincin and Ozhaganov all together!!!

Thats how much our Keafs defensr will change. The Sheldon Maple Keafs will rock

Lame but I'll leave that in ha

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

If I wanted to watch the Marlies Playoffs, is AHL Live worth it?

 

[horner]

I am fine with the idea that Kings didn't want him. I just can't say that it is true. I don't think that Liljegren's style matching the King's style and I know that scouts have very diverge views on him.

However, I highly doubt the Leafs' offered: Grundstrom, 2019 1st and your choice of Liljegren/Durzi. If Liljegren was offered I imagine the rest of the package was not the same.

I personally feel that Liljegren improved a lot at over the summer and the early fall of 2017 and has since mostly stagnated. Others will disagree with that assessment. I think that Sandin is way ahead right now. I also love the way Liljegren plays and would have been very ticked off if he had been traded (unless that trade is to Buffalo), so I am happy if other teams are down on him. I am hoping that next year he can put all together and soon thereafter be the kind of NHL D that I projected him to be. So to me the potential upside is still too high to trade him. But I am very aware that Liljegren could turn out to be a no toolbox situation and top out as a 6/7.

I agree

Grunstrom and Lilly

Or

Grunstrom Duri 1st

They don't have alot of prospect so the second option was more appealing to them.