Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects- Early Off Season time

[Mickey Marner]

They were in the 20s last season.

Didn't include guys like Matthews last season; just prospects.

He changed it to organizational depth because of the postponed draft.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The fact is that a lot of Toronto's prospects had very positive seasons and improved their stock.

• Robertson
• Sandin
• Liljegren, defensive beast in the AHL
• Abruzzeze
• Abramov

Then even Hollowell and Duszak had strong seasons.

Hollowell and Duszak sucked in the AHL. Duszak has some offensive potential but both need a ton of work defensively.

And before anyone says to move them to forward, Duszak would still need a ton of work and Hollowell is not good enough offensively.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Robertson, Sandin, Liljegren is a pretty good 1-2-3 in the prospect pool ... And if they draft at 15th OA that will really be something good.

Depth-wise is lacking but there is a solid group of A prospects there and some B prospects with some rising potential.

 

[Pholus]

Mikko Kokkonen is also playing in the junior league, he has 2A in 2GP. The Finnish Liiga starts their regular season in October.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Robertson, Sandin, Liljegren is a pretty good 1-2-3 in the prospect pool ... And if they draft at 15th OA that will really be something good.

Depth-wise is lacking but there is a solid group of A prospects there and some B prospects with some rising potential.

The nice thing that most of our recent picks are at least more valuable today than they were at their draft slot. If we were to liquidate our prospect pool for picks, we'd have more than we spent on drafting them.

 

[Kiwi]

Hollowell and Duszak sucked in the AHL. Duszak has some offensive potential but both need a ton of work defensively.

And before anyone says to move them to forward, Duszak would still need a ton of work and Hollowell is not good enough offensively.

Can't agree with that

I thought Hollowell made a step forward defensively this season and wasn't to bad right up until the injuries and coaching change sent the Marlies into a death spiral

Duszak is what he is and that ain't changing imo

 

[kb]

Korshkov tied for 2nd in KHL scoring with 2G, 1A after the first 2 games. Vladislav Kara has 2 assists in 2 games. Lehtonen 1G in his 1 GP.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Korshkov tied for 2nd in KHL scoring with 2G, 1A after the first 2 games. Vladislav Kara has 2 assists in 2 games. Lehtonen 1G in his 1 GP.

Kizimov is currently a 13th forward for his team.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Korshkov tied for 2nd in KHL scoring with 2G, 1A after the first 2 games. Vladislav Kara has 2 assists in 2 games. Lehtonen 1G in his 1 GP.

Kizimov is currently a 13th forward for his team.

 

[Stephen]

Hollowell and Duszak sucked in the AHL. Duszak has some offensive potential but both need a ton of work defensively.

And before anyone says to move them to forward, Duszak would still need a ton of work and Hollowell is not good enough offensively.

I feel like the downside of developing guys like Hollowell and Duszak is they need to be exceptionally good (Torey Krug, Sami Vatanen, Ryan Ellis,Samuel Girard, Tony D'Angelo, Adam Fox) to be particularly useful at the NHL level. Otherwise, what's the point in churning out guys like Connor Carrick who can't play a depth role and help your club?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Can't agree with that

I thought Hollowell made a step forward defensively this season and wasn't to bad right up until the injuries and coaching change sent the Marlies into a death spiral

Duszak is what he is and that ain't changing imo

Hollowell was not even on the team when Keefe was in charge. He played like two games for Keefe and then whatever he did last year in the playoffs, where he was decent considering it was his first set of pro action, but hardly spectacular.

Or are you referring to the ECHL, where they (Duszak and Hollowell) obviously looked too good for the competition. Not exactly a measuring stick.

Hollowell and Duszak were disasters defensively, even accounting for the fact that the rest of the team was a disaster. They were easily the worst defensemen on the team (in terms of defense). The saving grace for Duszak is that he looked great offensively, and Hollowell is still young and has high IQ so he still has a ton of room to grow. However I would not say he progressed very much defensively.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I feel like the downside of developing guys like Hollowell and Duszak is they need to be exceptionally good (Torey Krug, Sami Vatanen, Ryan Ellis,Samuel Girard, Tony D'Angelo, Adam Fox) to be particularly useful at the NHL level. Otherwise, what's the point in churning out guys like Connor Carrick who can't play a depth role and help your club?

Duszak does because he is a pure offensive defenseman, and unless you are like Barrie-level, teams do not waste roster spots on those types of guys. He either needs to get much better defensively or show he can be a PP specialist in the NHL.

Hollowell is a little bit differently. He is effectively another shot at a Connor Carrick, where you could argue that he could be a good 4/5 if all goes well, because he has the defensive IQ and toolbox to do that despite his size. In fact, I think he has more IQ than a Carrick ever did. However, I don't imagine things will go perfectly and that if he does make the NHL, he will settle in as a guy similar to what Carrick is right now. I guess that is not a failure, especially for a 4th round pick, but not exactly anything special either. Just someone who will cheaply fill out our roster when we need him.

 

[Kiwi]

Hollowell was not even on the team when Keefe was in charge. He played like two games for Keefe and then whatever he did last year in the playoffs, where he was decent considering it was his first set of pro action, but hardly spectacular.

Or are you referring to the ECHL, where they (Duszak and Hollowell) obviously looked too good for the competition. Not exactly a measuring stick.

Hollowell and Duszak were disasters defensively, even accounting for the fact that the rest of the team was a disaster. They were easily the worst defensemen on the team (in terms of defense). The saving grace for Duszak is that he looked great offensively, and Hollowell is still young and has high IQ so he still has a ton of room to grow. However I would not say he progressed very much defensively.

Hollowell played with the Marlies the year before during the playoffs and his defensive game was rough, the goaltending was saving his ass and I still maintain he was noticbly better this season with the Growlers and Marlies he's just made to look worse than he was because of the team situation and God awful goaltending

Duszak is terrible defensively but I see improvement in Hollowell even with everything that happened this season

 

[Myopic]

I feel like the downside of developing guys like Hollowell and Duszak is they need to be exceptionally good (Torey Krug, Sami Vatanen, Ryan Ellis,Samuel Girard, Tony D'Angelo, Adam Fox) to be particularly useful at the NHL level. Otherwise, what's the point in churning out guys like Connor Carrick who can't play a depth role and help your club?

I have yet to see Hollowell play. I remember his offensive numbers in junior were excellent. Is he on the level of Barrie & Jake Gardiner defensively? They are bad.

 

[Prominence]

I have yet to see Hollowell play. I remember his offensive numbers in junior were excellent. Is he on the level of Barrie & Jake Gardiner defensively? They are bad.

Hollowell was under a ppg in his 20 year old season (late birthday). His career potential (if everything goes well, so low chance of that happening) is jared spurgeon. He won't be as good as barrie offensively, but can surpass him defensively as he will spend a lot of time in the ahl. Jake Gardiner is unorthodox while spurgeon is more consistent, which is usually how hollowell is described.

 

[stickty111]

Leafs are inside the top 5 of Pronman's organizational rankings and they haven't come up yet.

 

[kk87]

Leafs are inside the top 5 of Pronman's organizational rankings and they haven't come up yet.

Clearly Matthews is the only reason we're anywhere near the top, but I'll be curious to see how he values other notable pieces in the organization - primarily Sandin, Liljegren, and Robertson. I still think top 5 is a little too high, but then again, there aren't many teams I'd swap U23 cores with if we were losing Matthews.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Hollowell played with the Marlies the year before during the playoffs and his defensive game was rough, the goaltending was saving his ass and I still maintain he was noticbly better this season with the Growlers and Marlies he's just made to look worse than he was because of the team situation and God awful goaltending

Duszak is terrible defensively but I see improvement in Hollowell even with everything that happened this season

He was worse than any other defenseman on the team outside of Duszak, so while the team situation certainly did not help, he also did not play well (on the Marlies; both Duszak and Hollowell looked too good for the ECHL).

He probably needs another 2 or 3 years at least, and even if he does turn out, I doubt he becomes anything more than maybe a decent bottom pairing defenseman. His IQ still gives him 4/5 upside, but he'd need to make multiple major leaps to come close to reaching that upside.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Clearly Matthews is the only reason we're anywhere near the top, but I'll be curious to see how he values other notable pieces in the organization - primarily Sandin, Liljegren, and Robertson. I still think top 5 is a little too high, but then again, there aren't many teams I'd swap U23 cores with if we were losing Matthews.

It's kind of annoying because I'd be much more interested in his perspective on where our prospects stand. Hopefully his post-draft list consists of just prospects.

 

[stickty111]

Clearly Matthews is the only reason we're anywhere near the top, but I'll be curious to see how he values other notable pieces in the organization - primarily Sandin, Liljegren, and Robertson. I still think top 5 is a little too high, but then again, there aren't many teams I'd swap U23 cores with if we were losing Matthews.

Even with Matthews, it seems a bit too high, but Pronman is pretty high on our skilled prospects, so maybe not surprising.
Looking forward to the 20-80 grades he has for the prospects.

 

[stickty111]

Leafs land 4th on Pronman's organizational rankings. He said while obviously Matthews drives a lot of this, he likes the young prospects in the system.
For anyone who isn't subscribed, I will do a bit of an overview on his list later today.

 

[Mickey Marner]

A 60/80 for Matthews in hockey sense, same as Liljegren

Obviously no regard for off-the-puck intelligence. Matthews has arguably the greatest appreciation for off-the-puck shooting lanes in the league and always works to maintain a triangle.

 

[FreeBird]

Leafs land 4th on Pronman's organizational rankings. He said while obviously Matthews drives a lot of this, he likes the young prospects in the system.
For anyone who isn't subscribed, I will do a bit of an overview on his list later today.

we can always count on you

 

[stickty111]

we can always count on you

Yup Leafs prospect pool is looking really strong again so it's exciting to provide updates.

 

[stickty111]

Here is the overview of Pronman's piece. I will just identify the grades as plus or whatever since it's a paid subscription

1. Matthews
Skating and physicality as above average, pucks skills are better then plus. IQ is a plus. Shot is generational which is not surprising. He is the total package. Combining size with skating, fantastic puck skills and arguably the best mid range shot in the league. Started playing more physically as well.

2. Robertson
Average skating, more then plus IQ, well below average physicality, plus puck skills and a plus plus shot.

One of the best OHL players. Can score from all areas and can go through defences easily with his stick handling skills. Also works really hard to get pucks back despite his size. Great edge work but speed is a question. Sees him as a top 6 player.

3. Sandin
Average skating, above average puck skills, below average physicality, and more then plus IQ.

Smarts and creativity are what make up his puck moving. He finds areas to get the puck in. Patient while holding the puck inside the blueline and shows great poise. He is alright defensively because of his IQ and is willing to engage in battles.
Has questions if his mobility and size will stop him from playing tough matchups at the top level.

4. Liljegren
Above average skating, plus puck skills, below average physicality, plus IQ.

Solid puckmover. Poised and patient in making plays out of the zone. Skilled who can take players one on one. Solid skater known more for edgework then speed. Huge gains defensively who shuts down plays.
Has questions how much offense he will produce at the next level, but wouldn't be surprised if he takes off with the flashes he has shown.

5. Abramov
Average skating, plus puck skills, below average physicality, plus IQ and plus plus shot

One of the better forwards in the QMJHL. High end vision which helps create many chances. Could beat defenders with his hands but is pass first. His shot was the most impressive he has seen from him before, as he scored goals that could beat NHL goalies.
He's small with average skating so those will be obstacles, but believes the skill and compete level will get through that.

6. Hallander
Average skating, above average puck skills, average physicality, plus IQ.

Not a jump out of you seat player, but is really smart with a strong compete level. Plays really well in the tough areas of the ice and wins battles. Nice passer and makes good plays around the net. The skill might not be enough to produce strong numbers at the top level, but he has had good production over the years.

7. Abruzzese
Above average skating, plus puck skills, well below average physicality, plus IQ

A top forward in college hockey. Very high skill. Sees all openings in the O zone, and patience and creativity helps him make difficult plays. He thinks pass first, but when he attacks, he has the hands to get by defenders. He's small and while agile and elusive, his speed is a question. Really competitive though and doesn't get pushed around.

Not going over honourable mentions.

My thoughts. Agree for the most part but think he undervalues Sandin a bit and overvalues a couple of the tools of Lilly. The plus plus shot for Abramov is too high but his shot is certainly good.
Also Hallander is exactly the prospect we needed in the pool.