Prospect Info: Mark Kastelic - Center - 125th

Bileur

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He was a good 4th liner. The problem is we paid him like a good 3rd liner.

He also got in his head. After that 25 goal year he softened up and stopped playing the way that made him effective.

Remember when he intimidated Kadri and fought Horton? That Smith was a perfect 4th liner.

Smith, as a rookie, stepping in for Winchester who was coming off a concussion and who Horton was trying to intimidate off the draw instantly won me over.



I agree it fell apart later on but early Smith was a nice bottom of the roster player.

If Kastelic can bring a similar game with stronger face off ability that would be a good addition.
 

RAFI BOMB

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I'm about 16 minutes into this one. Thanks again for putting these together.

Kastelic is pretty good. Could definitely push for that 4th line C position soon. He and Kelly are both fighting hard for 4th line rolls. Both of them play the way the Sens want to play - they can skate, move the puck, harass puck carriers on the forecheck and backcheck, and throw the body. We will be moving on from Tierney soon and should maybe look to move on from Watson at the deadline/in the offseason to make room for these young, fast, and cheap options.
I don't see the rush to move Watson. He is on a cheap contract and still is a very physical penalty killer who excels at blocking shots. The Sens will need depth for a deep playoff run and players like Kastelic and Kelly can be really helpful in that regard. They could end up being very valuable depth players for the Sens in the short and long run.
 
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aragorn

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Smith, as a rookie, stepping in for Winchester who was coming off a concussion and who Horton was trying to intimidate off the draw instantly won me over.



I agree it fell apart later on but early Smith was a nice bottom of the roster player.

If Kastelic can bring a similar game with stronger face off ability that would be a good addition.

Zack Smith was good tough guy & perfect middle weight & 3rd liner, he did a lot of things well, he took faceoffs, play on the PK, took faceoffs, was a good defensive forward, played LW or C & was a good fighter. And I like watching him give it to Kadri, wish he would have gotten a hold of Domi too.
 

aragorn

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I think they sign some of these guys to one yr or two yr deals because that's how long they have predicted that the guys in their org who they think could replace those guys should be ready. If Kastelic is the replacement for Watson & Watson has another yr left on his contract, that's when they think Kastelic should be able to step in & assume his role. Doesn't always work out that way & it's not a perfect science.

Sometimes players are ready sooner & force the org to trade the vet sooner, or the player takes longer to develop & needs more development time or it turns out they might not be good enough & they trade them or cut them or a better deal comes along. I like Kastelic & see him in a possible 4th line role at C or RW, most likely C given how good he is at faceoffs.
 

topshelf15

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Good old Zack....Loved him as a player...Yes he lost it quick after we gave him that big deal,but for sure a great draft pick by BM
 
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The Devilish Buffoon

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He was a good 4th liner. The problem is we paid him like a good 3rd liner.

He also got in his head. After that 25 goal year he softened up and stopped playing the way that made him effective.

Remember when he intimidated Kadri and fought Horton? That Smith was a perfect 4th liner.

Smith stopped enjoying hockey. He was way too physically broken down and always in pain and almost retired years ago to try to become an agent.
 

Xspyrit

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Zack Smith was clearly more than a 4th liner...

From 2011-12 to 2018-19 (from first full NHL season, 23 to 30 y/o, 8 seasons in total) he had 88 goals 93 assists 181 pts in 541 games (0.33 PPG = 13 goals, 14 assists, 27 pts per 82 games)

That's not 4th line numbers, it's the bulk of his career (peak) and it includes an injury-plagued season in 2014-15 where he just couldn't do anything (played way less minutes and his offensive + F/O numbers dropped big time)

He was pretty solid on face-offs most years and had good defensive stats. He was mainly used as a defensive physical forward with heavy D-zone deployment. His TOI/GP also suggests that he was more than a "4th liner"

Saying he was a "4th liner" would be saying that Nick Paul has been a 4th liner the last 2 seasons. Same kind of production, same kind of role/deployment/TOI/responsibility

His contracts were always excellent value except the last one because it was just before his decline. Have to be careful with AAV and term with "agressive/bruising/physical" forwards when you extend them near their 30s. Their style of play took a toll on their body and they could fall off a cliff quickly. Maybe Dorion didn't know that.

Those were some facts about Zack Smith, he was a pretty good 3rd liner in his prime. Pageau and Smith were fun together. If 5th rounder Kastelic ends up anywhere close to what Zack Smith was, it's basically a homerun
 
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God Says No

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He's no Zack Smith. Zack was a waaay better offensive player than Mark. He still has a ways to go before he can be even considered for the big club. He's closer to David Dziurzynski than Smith.
 
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Icelevel

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He's no Zack Smith. Zack was a waaay better offensive player than Mark. He still has a ways to go before he can be even considered for the big club. He's closer to David Dziurzynski than Smith.
I find this inaccurate.
Still unknown what he’ll become if anything. But your statements are inaccurate
 

Hale The Villain

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Kastelic had better WHL numbers than Smith, but Smith really broke out at the AHL level, averaging 50P/82GP through his first two seasons with the B-Sens.

I wouldn't expect Kastelic to develop into anything more than an okay 4th liner, while Smith was a good 3rd liner for most of his career.
 

RAFI BOMB

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He's no Zack Smith. Zack was a waaay better offensive player than Mark. He still has a ways to go before he can be even considered for the big club. He's closer to David Dziurzynski than Smith.
He demonstrated some decent offensive ability this season. He showcased a solid hockey iq and looked like he could become a decent possession player. He made smart passes and was in good shooting positions. His passes need to get cleaner and he likely needs more deception in his shot so we will see if he can improve that. If you haven't seen the Shifts & Clips video I created of him you might want to check it out.
 

aragorn

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He demonstrated some decent offensive ability this season. He showcased a solid hockey iq and looked like he could become a decent possession player. He made smart passes and was in good shooting positions. His passes need to get cleaner and he likely needs more deception in his shot so we will see if he can improve that. If you haven't seen the Shifts & Clips video I created of him you might want to check it out.

Didn't Kastelic play with Sokolov some last yr too & was part of the line that jelled & helped Sokolov do so well?
 

God Says No

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He demonstrated some decent offensive ability this season. He showcased a solid hockey iq and looked like he could become a decent possession player. He made smart passes and was in good shooting positions. His passes need to get cleaner and he likely needs more deception in his shot so we will see if he can improve that. If you haven't seen the Shifts & Clips video I created of him you might want to check it out.


Yeah, that's fine but he still didn't put up very good numbers in the AHL in his first year, not even close to what Smith did. Let's see what he does this year, but so far he looks behind Smith offensively.

I find this inaccurate.
Still unknown what he’ll become if anything. But your statements are inaccurate

Such as?
 

RAFI BOMB

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Didn't Kastelic play with Sokolov some last yr too & was part of the line that jelled & helped Sokolov do so well?
Early on in the season they played together with Reinhardt. That line was pretty effective so they were contributing to each other's success. But Troy Mann had a number of interviews where he said that Sokolov probably needs a playmaking center to play with. Once Peca got sent down Sokolov played the majority of games with Peca and Labate.

Like I said before about Kastelic needing to clean up his passes, that could play a role in Mann separating them. Kastelic was making good reads and was making the right pass but there were a few occasions where the puck ended up in Sokolov's skates rather than on his stick. That made it harder for Sokolov to be effective because he wasn't able to get is shot off as quickly.

I think Kastelic has the makings of a solid bottom six player. Given our organizational depth he likely ends up as a 4th liner but potentially a very good one. I could see him developing into something like Barclay Goodrow.
 
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RAFI BOMB

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Yeah, that's fine but he still didn't put up very good numbers in the AHL in his first year, not even close to what Smith did. Let's see what he does this year, but so far he looks behind Smith offensively.

Sure. He does need to improve his production at the AHL level but I think he has the hockey IQ to do it. I haven't been using the Smith comparison because I don't see them as overly similar players. Early on I thought Kastelic looked like a combination of Mike Fisher-lite and Chris Neil-lite. Not really the best of both of their traits but a somewhat approximation of with also some of their flaws. Now I see Kastelic as having the potential to become a Barclay Goodrow type. Goodrow had better AHL numbers but so far his NHL numbers have floated around 20 points a season. Goodrow still brings a lot to the table and maybe he could produce more in an expanded role but with Kastelic I think if we get something similar to what Goodrow is now then that is a huge win.

Kastelic is still going to be a useful possession player who can steal pucks, intercept passes, work the cycle, be net front presence, win draws and provide some physicality and intimidation. It would be nice if he could put up a lot of points but that seems like a longshot and highly unlikely outcome. Fortunately the Sens have a lot of prospect depth so they don't need him to break out offensively. If he can be a really solid 4th liner then that is great for the Sens. Norris, Pinto, Greig and Ostapchuk can battle it out for the top 3 center spots and a guy like Kastelic can either be a 4th line center. He will still be a cost controlled asset that fits the organizational identity and could likely contribute to playoff success.
 

God Says No

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Sure. He does need to improve his production at the AHL level but I think he has the hockey IQ to do it. I haven't been using the Smith comparison because I don't see them as overly similar players. Early on I thought Kastelic looked like a combination of Mike Fisher-lite and Chris Neil-lite. Not really the best of both of their traits but a somewhat approximation of with also some of their flaws. Now I see Kastelic as having the potential to become a Barclay Goodrow type. Goodrow had better AHL numbers but so far his NHL numbers have floated around 20 points a season. Goodrow still brings a lot to the table and maybe he could produce more in an expanded role but with Kastelic I think if we get something similar to what Goodrow is now then that is a huge win.

Kastelic is still going to be a useful possession player who can steal pucks, intercept passes, work the cycle, be net front presence, win draws and provide some physicality and intimidation. It would be nice if he could put up a lot of points but that seems like a longshot and highly unlikely outcome. Fortunately the Sens have a lot of prospect depth so they don't need him to break out offensively. If he can be a really solid 4th liner then that is great for the Sens. Norris, Pinto, Greig and Ostapchuk can battle it out for the top 3 center spots and a guy like Kastelic can either be a 4th line center. He will still be a cost controlled asset that fits the organizational identity and could likely contribute to playoff success.

I think him becoming a 4th line center with the big club is a long shot. Can he do it, possibly but unlikely. I just don't see it with this guy. I agree with you that the Zack Smith comparison is a bad one. but Goodrow is bad one as well IMO. I would put him somewhere between David Dziurzynski on the low end and Derek Grant on the high end.
 

Alf Silfversson

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As of now Kastelic is far too slow mentally and physically to play effective NHL hockey, IMO. He's a good soldier down in Belleville right now and he has time to develop, but I don't think he should be in the conversation for the NHL club anytime soon. Maybe a 4th line guy down the road but I think he's more of a cup of coffee type.

Certainly doesn't look like a Zack Smith level player. Smith was a very effective bottom 6 player early in his career.
 

RAFI BOMB

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I think him becoming a 4th line center with the big club is a long shot. Can he do it, possibly but unlikely. I just don't see it with this guy. I agree with you that the Zack Smith comparison is a bad one. but Goodrow is bad one as well IMO. I would put him somewhere between David Dziurzynski on the low end and Derek Grant on the high end.
That seems pretty pessimistic IMO. I know you argued something like this in the past and that you didn't think he deserved his ELC. He got his ELC, played decently in the AHL this year, got praise from Troy Mann and our WHL scout that recommended we pick him also said he was really impressed with how Kastelic performed this season and how much he developed. Why are you so pessimistic about him and why is none of this new information changing your perspective?
 

God Says No

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That seems pretty pessimistic IMO. I know you argued something like this in the past and that you didn't think he deserved his ELC. He got his ELC, played decently in the AHL this year, got praise from Troy Mann and our WHL scout that recommended we pick him also said he was really impressed with how Kastelic performed this season and how much he developed. Why are you so pessimistic about him and why is none of this new information changing your perspective?

I think you got me confused with someone else. At least I don't remember saying he didn't deserve an ELC. He did and does deserve an ELC. He's got a shot of making the club, albeit a small one, and that is good enough to give him a contract to see how he develops.

This is purely my opinion (which could be very wrong), but I see a guy who has limited offensive talent and has utilized his size in the minors to inflate his output. I do remember saying that he will not be able to use his size advantage in the same way in the AHL and NHL. Hence his numbers will suffer, and they did. Now is the question of whether he has the skill to adjust and become more than he's shown. I'm not sold. But again, that's me. The Sens are my team and I hope every prospect makes it, but I do try to be realistic. You may call it pessimistic.

I still maintain he's got the ceiling of a Derek Grant. A guy who was big and solid defensively, but struggled offensively. He did become an NHL'er after going to many teams and only becoming a regular in his mid to late 20's. We'll see.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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I think Grant is a fine comparison in some facets but my recollection of Grant was that he was quite timid and shy about going to the net for a player of his size. Don’t get that impression at all from Kastelic.
 

RAFI BOMB

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I think you got me confused with someone else. At least I don't remember saying he didn't deserve an ELC. He did and does deserve an ELC. He's got a shot of making the club, albeit a small one, and that is good enough to give him a contract to see how he develops.

This is purely my opinion (which could be very wrong), but I see a guy who has limited offensive talent and has utilized his size in the minors to inflate his output. I do remember saying that he will not be able to use his size advantage in the same way in the AHL and NHL. Hence his numbers will suffer, and they did. Now is the question of whether he has the skill to adjust and become more than he's shown. I'm not sold. But again, that's me. The Sens are my team and I hope every prospect makes it, but I do try to be realistic. You may call it pessimistic.

I still maintain he's got the ceiling of a Derek Grant. A guy who was big and solid defensively, but struggled offensively. He did become an NHL'er after going to many teams and only becoming a regular in his mid to late 20's. We'll see.
Maybe you didn't make such a claim. I thought you had and that is what lead me to think you were being very pessimistic. I guess I had mistaken you with someone else.

I get what you are arguing and you present some valid reasons why we should be skeptical about his upside. I do remember Tory Mann making a comment early in the season that Kastelic is one of the physically strongest players in the AHL and that he wanted him to really use his size and encourage him to play much more physical. I remember finding that statement to be surprising as Mann has coached a long time in the AHL so the suggestion that Kastelic was one of the physically strongest players in the AHL at 21 seemed like a good sign that he could continue to improve in that regard as he gets older and likely end up being one of the strongest players in the NHL if he makes it.

I think that is an important issue that you bring up. Certain kinds of players rely heavily on their physical strength to be effective and there are many examples of a player being physically dominant at the junior level but never finding that same dominance at the AHL or NHL level. If they can continue to be as physically dominant relative to their peers then that would be a good sign. So this is likely something we should keep an eye on with Kastelic as it is an important variable in his overall effectiveness.

I watched almost all his shifts in the AHL this season to make that video so I am fairly familiar with his play. I didn't see as much of his WHL play so I can't really comment about that. From what I have seen the hockey IQ and a lot of the athleticism is there for him to be a good player. He has some limits with his overall skating ability and his hands also seem limited. I wonder if he was able to create the offense in the WHL because of his hockey IQ and if that (and possibly his size and strength) were able to compensate for his more limited hands.

Watching his AHL games, he gets to the net, he puts himself in scoring positions and gets shots off in those dangerous positions and he also has good on ice awareness to make passes to open players who are uncovered in scoring positions. But he hasn't been as clean with those passes and he hasn't been able to score the same kinds of goals even though he is in the good positions. I think he might be able to make some improvements in those areas but I do question how much improvement he can make and as a consequence what his production will look like.

What I do think Kastelic is strong at his intercepting passes and stealing pucks. I was really impressed with his defensive game and thought that could amount to something valuable at the NHL level. He will likely get some preseason games so that will be helpful is evaluating where he is in his development and whether he is close or not to being an NHL regular. That should happen fairly soon along with the rookie tournament so we will be able to discuss what progress (or lack thereof) that we see.
 
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Alf Silfversson

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Maybe you didn't make such a claim. I thought you had and that is what lead me to think you were being very pessimistic. I guess I had mistaken you with someone else.

I get what you are arguing and you present some valid reasons why we should be skeptical about his upside. I do remember Tory Mann making a comment early in the season that Kastelic is one of the physically strongest players in the AHL and that he wanted him to really use his size and encourage him to play much more physical. I remember finding that statement to be surprising as Mann has coached a long time in the AHL so the suggestion that Kastelic was one of the physically strongest players in the AHL at 21 seemed like a good sign that he could continue to improve in that regard as he gets older and likely end up being one of the strongest players in the NHL if he makes it.

I think that is an important issue that you bring up. Certain kinds of players rely heavily on their physical strength to be effective and there are many examples of a player being physically dominant at the junior level but never finding that same dominance at the AHL or NHL level. If they can continue to be as physically dominant relative to their peers then that would be a good sign. So this is likely something we should keep an eye on with Kastelic as it is an important variable in his overall effectiveness.

I watched almost all his shifts in the AHL this season to make that video so I am fairly familiar with his play. I didn't see as much of his WHL play so I can't really comment about that. From what I have seen the hockey IQ and a lot of the athleticism is there for him to be a good player. He has some limits with his overall skating ability and his hands also seem limited. I wonder if he was able to create the offense in the WHL because of his hockey IQ and if that (and possibly his size and strength) were able to compensate for his more limited hands.

Watching his AHL games, he gets to the net, he puts himself in scoring positions and gets shots off in those dangerous positions and he also has good on ice awareness to make passes to open players who are uncovered in scoring positions. But he hasn't been as clean with those passes and he hasn't been able to score the same kinds of goals even though he is in the good positions. I think he might be able to make some improvements in those areas but I do question how much improvement he can make and as a consequence what his production will look like.

What I do think Kastelic is strong at his intercepting passes and stealing pucks. I was really impressed with his defensive game and thought that could amount to something valuable at the NHL level. He will likely get some preseason games so that will be helpful is evaluating where he is in his development and whether he is close or not to being an NHL regular. That should happen fairly soon along with the rookie tournament so we will be able to discuss what progress (or lack thereof) that we see.

I think Kastelic had decent to good IQ at the junior level. I think he holds the puck too long at the AHL level and he does little to nothing that is that deceptive, but that last point doesn't matter much for the kind of player being projected here (4th line defensive C). I do think that his foot, hand and brain speed are lacking for an NHL player.

He is defensively responsible and having watched him a ton with the Hitmen I think he has a good work ethic.

I also think that if this player was 6'1 or even 6'2 no one would be talking about him at all. To me that's never a good sign.
 

God Says No

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Maybe you didn't make such a claim. I thought you had and that is what lead me to think you were being very pessimistic. I guess I had mistaken you with someone else.

I get what you are arguing and you present some valid reasons why we should be skeptical about his upside. I do remember Tory Mann making a comment early in the season that Kastelic is one of the physically strongest players in the AHL and that he wanted him to really use his size and encourage him to play much more physical. I remember finding that statement to be surprising as Mann has coached a long time in the AHL so the suggestion that Kastelic was one of the physically strongest players in the AHL at 21 seemed like a good sign that he could continue to improve in that regard as he gets older and likely end up being one of the strongest players in the NHL if he makes it.

I think that is an important issue that you bring up. Certain kinds of players rely heavily on their physical strength to be effective and there are many examples of a player being physically dominant at the junior level but never finding that same dominance at the AHL or NHL level. If they can continue to be as physically dominant relative to their peers then that would be a good sign. So this is likely something we should keep an eye on with Kastelic as it is an important variable in his overall effectiveness.

I watched almost all his shifts in the AHL this season to make that video so I am fairly familiar with his play. I didn't see as much of his WHL play so I can't really comment about that. From what I have seen the hockey IQ and a lot of the athleticism is there for him to be a good player. He has some limits with his overall skating ability and his hands also seem limited. I wonder if he was able to create the offense in the WHL because of his hockey IQ and if that (and possibly his size and strength) were able to compensate for his more limited hands.

Watching his AHL games, he gets to the net, he puts himself in scoring positions and gets shots off in those dangerous positions and he also has good on ice awareness to make passes to open players who are uncovered in scoring positions. But he hasn't been as clean with those passes and he hasn't been able to score the same kinds of goals even though he is in the good positions. I think he might be able to make some improvements in those areas but I do question how much improvement he can make and as a consequence what his production will look like.

What I do think Kastelic is strong at his intercepting passes and stealing pucks. I was really impressed with his defensive game and thought that could amount to something valuable at the NHL level. He will likely get some preseason games so that will be helpful is evaluating where he is in his development and whether he is close or not to being an NHL regular. That should happen fairly soon along with the rookie tournament so we will be able to discuss what progress (or lack thereof) that we see.

Yip, I watched a bit of the video (10+ min) and I did see what you did.

Good defensive stick. Really adept at stripping the puck. Gets into good defensive positions. Good PK. Physical. A pest that doesn't mind sticking up for his teammates.

Nothing special in terms of a release. Passing is average at best, but seems to be better with his backhand than forehand. Fumbles the puck a fair amount.

Good AHL'er, it's going to be a long shot for NHL. Still maintain somewhere between Dziurzynski and Grant.
 

RAFI BOMB

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Yip, I watched a bit of the video (10+ min) and I did see what you did.

Good defensive stick. Really adept at stripping the puck. Gets into good defensive positions. Good PK. Physical. A pest that doesn't mind sticking up for his teammates.

Nothing special in terms of a release. Passing is average at best, but seems to be better with his backhand than forehand. Fumbles the puck a fair amount.

Good AHL'er, it's going to be a long shot for NHL. Still maintain somewhere between Dziurzynski and Grant.
Just an important note on the video. When I create the Shifts & Clips, thus far I add each clip in the right sequential order, so every new clip happened later in the game or later in the season. I created it that way so people can evaluate a players progression and see how they looked in the early part of the season vs the later part of the season.

I am not sure the exact numbers of games but the first 10 minutes or so of the Kastelic video should be from fairly early in the season. He did improve as the season went on.
 
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