Marian Hossa

[Legend Killer]

How could anyone not miss him?

Arguably the best player to ever play here... Still one of the most dominant 200' players in the league...

Very happy to see him win a couple Stanley Cups!

 

[FlyingJ]

The amount of revisionist history through rose-tinted glasses in this thread is laughable. There's no guarantee Chara stays if Hossa is still here. I wouldn't even say it's likely. Hossa would have pushed us further towards the cap with his (at the time) unwarranted contract, leaving less room for Chara, who was pretty set on that $7.5 million annually on a long term deal. Also makes it much more difficult to keep Spezza and Alfie shortly after. Plus, wasn't there a rumour Chara wanted the "C" in order to stay?

The idea that, even if he did stay, that Hossa and perhaps Chara would still be here today is also hilarious. Players move, it's a fact. And after his 3 year $18 million contract had expired, if we had managed to re-sign Alfie, Spezza, and either Chara or another high priced D, there would almost definitely be no room to give Hossa the likely sizable pay raise he would have demanded.

And on the issue of Hossa being here all but guaranteeing a Cup/Cups. Let's remember Hossa was one of a long list of guys who couldn't up their game enough to be "the guy" come playoff time. That Alfie had a breakthrough in 2007 was great, but there's no guarantee Hossa would have. Heck, look at his run with Detroit, or even his first win with the Hawks. There was alot of talk in both runs about how his scoring vanished come playoff time. The only time he's been a high-end scorer in the post-season is with the Pens, when opposing teams were more concerned with Crosby and Malkin, the best centre combo in the league. Hossa got much lesser opposition as a result, and played with the highest quality linemate(s) he had had in his career, making it much easier for him to score. Hossa is a complimentary guy. A very good one, but not one of the go-to stars on a championship team, which is what he would have been expected to be if he'd stayed here.

Let's also not sell Heatley short on the 2007 run here. Sure, he turned out to be a jerk, and vanished against the Ducks in the Finals, but he meshed well on that line with Alfie and Spezza, which is what got us there in the first place. If Hossa stays, no guarantee he fits on the LW with the other 2. Doesn't he exclusively play RW anyway?

This whole thread has tons of people talking about hypotheticals and wishful thinking as if they were near certainties. Let it go. Hossa demanded more money despite a reasonable offer from the Sens with comparables like a Richard winning Hejduk, so we traded him, and got some pretty good years out of Heatley in the process. Move on and stop looking back on Hossa as if he were a Gretzky.

 

[18Hossa]

 

[John Holmes*]

The amount of revisionist history through rose-tinted glasses in this thread is laughable. There's no guarantee Chara stays if Hossa is still here. I wouldn't even say it's likely. Hossa would have pushed us further towards the cap with his (at the time) unwarranted contract, leaving less room for Chara, who was pretty set on that $7.5 million annually on a long term deal. Also makes it much more difficult to keep Spezza and Alfie shortly after. Plus, wasn't there a rumour Chara wanted the "C" in order to stay?

The idea that, even if he did stay, that Hossa and perhaps Chara would still be here today is also hilarious. Players move, it's a fact. And after his 3 year $18 million contract had expired, if we had managed to re-sign Alfie, Spezza, and either Chara or another high priced D, there would almost definitely be no room to give Hossa the likely sizable pay raise he would have demanded.

And on the issue of Hossa being here all but guaranteeing a Cup/Cups. Let's remember Hossa was one of a long list of guys who couldn't up their game enough to be "the guy" come playoff time. That Alfie had a breakthrough in 2007 was great, but there's no guarantee Hossa would have. Heck, look at his run with Detroit, or even his first win with the Hawks. There was alot of talk in both runs about how his scoring vanished come playoff time. The only time he's been a high-end scorer in the post-season is with the Pens, when opposing teams were more concerned with Crosby and Malkin, the best centre combo in the league. Hossa got much lesser opposition as a result, and played with the highest quality linemate(s) he had had in his career, making it much easier for him to score. Hossa is a complimentary guy. A very good one, but not one of the go-to stars on a championship team, which is what he would have been expected to be if he'd stayed here.

Let's also not sell Heatley short on the 2007 run here. Sure, he turned out to be a jerk, and vanished against the Ducks in the Finals, but he meshed well on that line with Alfie and Spezza, which is what got us there in the first place. If Hossa stays, no guarantee he fits on the LW with the other 2. Doesn't he exclusively play RW anyway?

This whole thread has tons of people talking about hypotheticals and wishful thinking as if they were near certainties. Let it go. Hossa demanded more money despite a reasonable offer from the Sens with comparables like a Richard winning Hejduk, so we traded him, and got some pretty good years out of Heatley in the process. Move on and stop looking back on Hossa as if he were a Gretzky.

I think the revisionist history here is yours.

Ok, we can't know that Chara wouldn't have left anyway, though I, and surely many others have heard the story of how angry Chara was at Muckler for doing what he did to Hossa, and that it did play a big part in his decision to be somewheres else.

It surely didn't do anything to convince him to stay.

Hossa's contract was anything but unwarranted. He just completed a 4 year contract in which he was grossly underpaid for what he brought to the table.

His cap hit was $6 Million, and he was worth EVERY CENT of it.

There is no guarantee that we would have won the Cup with Hossa, but he was a huge part of the team, and while he never won the cup here, he has won it twice now, he is still a 30+ goal threat, he still has elite speed and vision, and he is jut a way better person than Heatley was.

Heatley is sputtering along, he has 12 goals this year. He's a shell of what he used to be.

Hossa may not have had the 180 goals in 4 years peak, but he's a hell of a lot better at every other aspect of the game, and he does have almost 90 more career goals than Heater to boot.

Bad trade was bad.

 

[FlyingJ]

Heatley is sputtering along, he has 12 goals this year. He's a shell of what he used to be.

Hossa may not have had the 180 goals in 4 years peak, but he's a hell of a lot better at every other aspect of the game, and he does have almost 90 more career goals than Heater to boot.

Bad trade was bad.

Oh ya, we got so shafted in that Heatley deal. Such a bad trade. Made the Finals with him, something we never did with Hossa here.

Heatley's regression over the last few seasons has been astounding, but after back-to-back 50 goal seasons followed by a 41 goal season in which he missed time, nobody was expecting him to be like this by 33. Hossa has always been the better 2 way player, but let's not sell Heatley short on how good he was in his prime, or ignore the fact that for a while here, most fans loved having him (until his trade demands of course). You're using hindsight on the "better person" comment. Nobody foresaw Heatley's attitude problems, and if you use Atlanta as an example, you're ignoring that virtually everyone saw it as Heatley wanting to get away from a very painful situation where his actions resulted in the death of his friend. It's easy to bash the trade now, but at the time, it looked pretty damn good for us.

As for Chara, no question Hossa being traded impacted his decision somewhat. I remember Chara being oh-so classy, bashing the Sens the first year after he left, when they were struggling early on, for the Hossa trade. Believe he said "You don't trade a diamond for nothing." Again, Heatley, regardless of his doucheb*ggery, was hardly nothing.

But what did Chara or anyone expect? Hossa was demanding a contract that would have pushed the Sens right up against the cap back when it was a little over $39 million. And while in hindsight you can say he earned that $6 million, the $4.5 they offered was more than fair for what he had accomplished at the time. Again, the comparable was Hejduk, who was making $4.2million and had a Richard trophy from 2002-2003 (50 goals and 98 points to Hossa's 45 and 80). Also followed that year up with 35 goals and 75 points (with Forsberg injured for most of that season too), very comparable to Hossa's 36 goals and 82 points in the same year. And a 3 year term would have given him more than enough time to cash in on a bigger contract(s) after that, which he since has.

The big issue here is people believing Hossa not being traded and possibly still being here would somehow negate the problems the team is currently facing. It's the sign of a fanbase that's watching their team go through a downright awful season. Hossa got traded. There's no guarantee that we would be any better off with him here, and in fact may not have had the success we had at points after he left. People need to let it go and stop putting this guy on some ridiculous pedestal. He was very good here, no question, but the way some people are talking, you'd think he was the be-all, end-all of this franchise.

 

[Spez]

Have to agree with Flying J on this one. Hossa would not be talked about if Hasek hadn't got hurt the year we had the dream team. We may have won a cup with Hossa that year but our odds were still higher with Heatley than Hossa. The pizza line tore the league up for a few seasons and we had a team capable of winning the cup the first few years. Heatley played a big role in us even getting to the finals in 07. Everyone knew we were a one line team and he played great until the finals. Not many people know it but Pronger destroyed Heatley's back in game 1 of the finals which contributed to him struggling mightily. We probably still lose even if Heatley was healthy but no one can deny how great we were with him here. He was loved here like crazy the first few seasons and it was awesome seeing a player who loved to feast on the leafs especially. No one will ever forget the 4 goal game he had vs the leafs not to mention other ones where he lit them up.

As for Chara I bet he would have signed if Muckler offered him the contract and the dollars he was looking for. I don't buy the rumour that he wanted the C from Alfie or that he would have refused to resign here just because of the way Hossa was treated. He knew the team we had was closer to a cup at the time than most of the teams out there. He was just like a lot of other free agents out there looking to cash in on a max deal and I don't blame him. Wasn't he coming off a Norris nomination back in 06?

 

[FlyingJ]

Wasn't he coming off a Norris nomination back in 06?

Came in 4th in voting that year (Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, and Zubov beat him in that order), and was a 2nd team all-star. Finalist for the Norris and 1st team all-star in 2003-04. Decent accomplishments there. Far more deserving at the time of the $7.5 million than Hossa was the $6 million when he demanded it.

 

[Hossa18]

The amount of revisionist history through rose-tinted glasses in this thread is laughable. There's no guarantee Chara stays if Hossa is still here. I wouldn't even say it's likely. Hossa would have pushed us further towards the cap with his (at the time) unwarranted contract, leaving less room for Chara, who was pretty set on that $7.5 million annually on a long term deal. Also makes it much more difficult to keep Spezza and Alfie shortly after. Plus, wasn't there a rumour Chara wanted the "C" in order to stay?

The idea that, even if he did stay, that Hossa and perhaps Chara would still be here today is also hilarious. Players move, it's a fact. And after his 3 year $18 million contract had expired, if we had managed to re-sign Alfie, Spezza, and either Chara or another high priced D, there would almost definitely be no room to give Hossa the likely sizable pay raise he would have demanded.

And on the issue of Hossa being here all but guaranteeing a Cup/Cups. Let's remember Hossa was one of a long list of guys who couldn't up their game enough to be "the guy" come playoff time. That Alfie had a breakthrough in 2007 was great, but there's no guarantee Hossa would have. Heck, look at his run with Detroit, or even his first win with the Hawks. There was alot of talk in both runs about how his scoring vanished come playoff time. The only time he's been a high-end scorer in the post-season is with the Pens, when opposing teams were more concerned with Crosby and Malkin, the best centre combo in the league. Hossa got much lesser opposition as a result, and played with the highest quality linemate(s) he had had in his career, making it much easier for him to score. Hossa is a complimentary guy. A very good one, but not one of the go-to stars on a championship team, which is what he would have been expected to be if he'd stayed here.

Let's also not sell Heatley short on the 2007 run here. Sure, he turned out to be a jerk, and vanished against the Ducks in the Finals, but he meshed well on that line with Alfie and Spezza, which is what got us there in the first place. If Hossa stays, no guarantee he fits on the LW with the other 2. Doesn't he exclusively play RW anyway?

This whole thread has tons of people talking about hypotheticals and wishful thinking as if they were near certainties. Let it go. Hossa demanded more money despite a reasonable offer from the Sens with comparables like a Richard winning Hejduk, so we traded him, and got some pretty good years out of Heatley in the process. Move on and stop looking back on Hossa as if he were a Gretzky.

You have got to be joking....Hossa's last year in Ottawa 2003\04 he made 2.75 mil and finished 5th in the league in scoring. Here is a list of all the players that made more than him that year.
http://www.hockeynut.com/0304/salaries0304.html

Then his first year in Atlanta where he was making 5 mil, here is a list of all the players making more than him. That year he finished 11th in the league in points.

http://www.hockeynut.com/0506/salaries0506.html

Do you really think that he was being unrealistic with his demands?

 

[Hossa18]

Have to agree with Flying J on this one. Hossa would not be talked about if Hasek hadn't got hurt the year we had the dream team. We may have won a cup with Hossa that year but our odds were still higher with Heatley than Hossa. The pizza line tore the league up for a few seasons and we had a team capable of winning the cup the first few years. Heatley played a big role in us even getting to the finals in 07. Everyone knew we were a one line team and he played great until the finals. Not many people know it but Pronger destroyed Heatley's back in game 1 of the finals which contributed to him struggling mightily. We probably still lose even if Heatley was healthy but no one can deny how great we were with him here. He was loved here like crazy the first few seasons and it was awesome seeing a player who loved to feast on the leafs especially. No one will ever forget the 4 goal game he had vs the leafs not to mention other ones where he lit them up.

As for Chara I bet he would have signed if Muckler offered him the contract and the dollars he was looking for. I don't buy the rumour that he wanted the C from Alfie or that he would have refused to resign here just because of the way Hossa was treated. He knew the team we had was closer to a cup at the time than most of the teams out there. He was just like a lot of other free agents out there looking to cash in on a max deal and I don't blame him. Wasn't he coming off a Norris nomination back in 06?

So, can you guarantee that Ottawa wins the cup if Hasek doesn't get hurt?

All I know is that Hossa has 2 Stanley Cups to Heatley's 0 and 4 Stanley Cup Finals to Heatley's 1......Game, Set, Match......Hossa

 

[FlyingJ]

Do you really think that he was being unrealistic with his demands?

What Ottawa was offering to him, and the comparables brought up, was perfectly fair. Hossa was also RFA and only one year away from unrestricted free agency in terms of age, so really the relatively short term of the deal allowed him a better chance to cash in. I have no issue with the Sens trading him because he demanded more. Was $6 million outrageous? No, but I can understand where the Sens were coming from, especially with the cap as low as it was.

My frustration in this really stems from people trying to portray trading Hossa as the ultimate downfall of this team today. It's simply fans playing with hindsight and going purely off their nostalgic emotions, and only brought on because we're having a very bad year now (which is more to do with Melnyk IMO, who would still be owner if Hossa had stayed). We got some very good years from the player we acquired in that trade (again, regardless of eventual doucheb*ggery), and accomplished more in the playoffs with him than we ever did with Hossa. And given what I wrote above about Hossa's playoff performances since leaving Ottawa, I find it unlikely to think he he would have accomplished much here with the pressure of being "the guy."

 

[FlyingJ]

So, can you guarantee that Ottawa wins the cup if Hasek doesn't get hurt?

All I know is that Hossa has 2 Stanley Cups to Heatley's 0 and 4 Stanley Cup Finals to Heatley's 1......Game, Set, Match......Hossa

Because truly, he would have certainly accomplished just as much if he'd stayed in Ottawa.

 

[Spez]

Absolutely guaranteed we would have won the cup. Carolina barely got past an injury riddled Buffalo team and barely got by the oilers without Roloson in net. You could even argue the oilers would have won that cup if Roloson hadn't got hurt. The team lost to Buffalo because they lost confidence in Emery after the game 1 debacle. Hasek was making big saves all the time when the team was trading chances playing a run and gun style that season. There is no way anyone can say we don't blow past Buffalo, Carolina and Edmonton with a healthy Hasek with the amount of sick talent we had on the team. It says something when the players had to beg and plead Hasek to come back when they were down 3-0 to the sabres.

You could see just how different the team looked after that game 1 loss. They played too afraid afterwards because they knew they wouldn't win the series playing run and gun anymore because every break down was seemingly going to be a goal in the back of their minds. That game 1 loss was just too emotionally devastating for a team that was used to seeing their star goalie bailing them out. I'd argue we would have won the cup in 20 games or less that year.

 

[Hossa18]

Because truly, he would have certainly accomplished just as much if he'd stayed in Ottawa.

Heatley went on to play with a very powerful team in SJ and was supposed to put them over the top. Both players didn't win anything in Ottawa but Hossa has gone on to Chicago and has put them over the top.

 

[Hossa18]

What Ottawa was offering to him, and the comparables brought up, was perfectly fair. Hossa was also RFA and only one year away from unrestricted free agency in terms of age, so really the relatively short term of the deal allowed him a better chance to cash in. I have no issue with the Sens trading him because he demanded more. Was $6 million outrageous? No, but I can understand where the Sens were coming from, especially with the cap as low as it was.

My frustration in this really stems from people trying to portray trading Hossa as the ultimate downfall of this team today. It's simply fans playing with hindsight and going purely off their nostalgic emotions, and only brought on because we're having a very bad year now (which is more to do with Melnyk IMO, who would still be owner if Hossa had stayed). We got some very good years from the player we acquired in that trade (again, regardless of eventual doucheb*ggery), and accomplished more in the playoffs with him than we ever did with Hossa. And given what I wrote above about Hossa's playoff performances since leaving Ottawa, I find it unlikely to think he he would have accomplished much here with the pressure of being "the guy."

Doesn't change the fact that Muckler did a slime ball move on Hossa and whether you believe it or not, it has affected the team that we are today. Hossa gave 7 years of loyalty and didn't deserve his treatment.

Hossa didn't have to be "the guy" here in Ottawa because Spezza was coming into his own and Alfredsson was hitting his prime. I loved Radek Bonk but he was a very good 2nd line center but was playing in the #1 slot so Hossa never got to play with a center of Spezza's calibre while here.

 

[FlyingJ]

Heatley went on to play with a very powerful team in SJ and was supposed to put them over the top. Both players didn't win anything in Ottawa but Hossa has gone on to Chicago and has put them over the top.

Hossa is not what put Chicago over the top. Go back to the 2010 run, Quennville had to defend Hossa's lack of production with the old "he's still playing well defensively" line, which to be fair he was. What put Chicago over the top? The development of Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook. Oh, and Niemi. All played much bigger roles in Chicago's win. Fast forward to 2013, and you have the same guys, but with Crawford stepping up to replace Niemi. Hossa contributed, sure, but a key piece to put them over the top? Keep dreaming.

 

[CanadianHockey]

How is it revisionist history to talk about hypothetical scenarios?

Hossa was worth the contract we signed him to. The team, under budget constraints, with cap considerations, and eyeing a talented, younger player in Heatley decided it was better to deal Hossa in a sign and trade than retain him.

Nobody has disputed that fact. Hell, I don't think anyone has suggested that, with Hossa, we're guaranteed to re-sign Chara, guaranteed a Cup, or guaranteed to avoid the decline we suffered after 2007.

 

[FlyingJ]

Hossa was worth the contract we signed him to. The team, under budget constraints, with cap considerations, and eyeing a talented, younger player in Heatley decided it was better to deal Hossa in a sign and trade than retain him.

Nobody has disputed that fact. Hell, I don't think anyone has suggested that, with Hossa, we're guaranteed to re-sign Chara, guaranteed a Cup, or guaranteed to avoid the decline we suffered after 2007.

Oh? I disagree. It's been suggested.

Its amazing how moving him completely altered this franchise. Hard to see Ottawa not being some Detroit lite version with a cup or 2 if hossa/chara stayed.

Other than hiring John Muckler outright, the Hossa trade is easily the "X factor" in the demise of the franchise.

Depending on what you believe of course, but the hamstringing of Hossa is where it all started going wrong in my opinion.

Trust in management gone. Chara walks out of spite. The Heatley fiasco.

Years of Bryan Murray mismanagement.

The team is a complete gong show.

 

[Boud]

Ok so if I understand well, this fan base is so desperate about the team we have now that we are going back 10 years ago to try to find a way that we could've done things so we would have won a cup?! Hahaha this is sad

 

[Hossa18]

Hossa is not what put Chicago over the top. Go back to the 2010 run, Quennville had to defend Hossa's lack of production with the old "he's still playing well defensively" line, which to be fair he was. What put Chicago over the top? The development of Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook. Oh, and Niemi. All played much bigger roles in Chicago's win. Fast forward to 2013, and you have the same guys, but with Crawford stepping up to replace Niemi. Hossa contributed, sure, but a key piece to put them over the top? Keep dreaming.

Really? You should check Chicago's record without Hossa in the lineup.....Their first losing streak of the year this year was without Hossa in the lineup.....Coincidence? As Alfie once stated "probably not".

 

[h2]

Higher peak......How so? Because he could shoot the puck? Hossa is and was a better player in every other category. Hossa was and still is a beast because of his work ethic which is something that Heatley never cared for.

I did say higher peak, which includes pre-accident Heatley. Did you ever see Heatley play before that? World class talent, watch the 2003 All-star game. Heatley had more to his arsenal than just his shot if you actually knew the player. Not only that, but having been around these boards when the Hossa trade went down, Heatley was seen as the better player at the time by a large majority.

 

[koreaboy]

I absolutely adore hoss. my all-time mancrush. miss him dearly. I think the best shift by a senator of all time was in the playoffs against philly when he basically circled through their entire team twice and scored a gigantic goal for us. magnificent player.

 

[FlyingJ]

Really? You should check Chicago's record without Hossa in the lineup.....Their first losing streak of the year this year was without Hossa in the lineup.....Coincidence? As Alfie once stated "probably not".

So their record without Hossa this year is indicative that he's what put them over the top in the 2010 and 2013 playoffs? I'd prefer to actually watch the games from the years they won...oh, wait, I did.

Nobody is questioning Hossa being a good player, but your belief that somehow trading Hossa for Heatley is the reason the team is in its current state is questionable to put it kindly. As is ignoring the success the Sens had with Heatley and without Hossa. Or that Chicago would have been incapable of winning the Cup without him. As I wrote, I think Kane (the 2013 Conn Smythe winner), Toews (the 2010 Conn Smythe winner), Keith, Seabrook, their goalies, and even Patrick Sharp were bigger reasons they won. Looking back at the 2010 playoffs, Hossa was 7th in points on the team and 10th in goals. In 2013, he did better being tied for 3rd in points and 4th in goals on the Hawks, but there were still players more important to that win than him.

 

[Hossa18]

I did say higher peak, which includes pre-accident Heatley. Did you ever see Heatley play before that? World class talent, watch the 2003 All-star game. Heatley had more to his arsenal than just his shot if you actually knew the player. Not only that, but having been around these boards when the Hossa trade went down, Heatley was seen as the better player at the time by a large majority.

Thing is, we didn't get a pre-accident Heatley. Also, the only people who thought that Heatley was a better player at the time were the people that cared only about offence and not look at the big picture and all round game.

 

[Hossa18]

So their record without Hossa this year is indicative that he's what put them over the top in the 2010 and 2013 playoffs? I'd prefer to actually watch the games from the years they won...oh, wait, I did.

Nobody is questioning Hossa being a good player, but your belief that somehow trading Hossa for Heatley is the reason the team is in its current state is questionable to put it kindly. As is ignoring the success the Sens had with Heatley and without Hossa. Or that Chicago would have been incapable of winning the Cup without him. As I wrote, I think Kane (the 2013 Conn Smythe winner), Toews (the 2010 Conn Smythe winner), Keith, Seabrook, their goalies, and even Patrick Sharp were bigger reasons they won. Looking back at the 2010 playoffs, Hossa was 7th in points on the team and 10th in goals. In 2013, he did better being tied for 3rd in points and 4th in goals on the Hawks, but there were still players more important to that win than him.

Would they have won the Stanley Cup without him? I would say that he put them over the top. What happened to the Blackhawks the year Torres knocked Hossa out of the playoffs? Did you watch that year as well?

 

[Spez]

Mike Smith is the only reason the hawks didn't go past the 1st round that year not because Hossa got hurt. He was insane in that series and if you ask any hawks fan they will tell you they should have won that series easily if not for him. Crawford also was not good in that series at all. He let in a lot of bad goals and was horribly outplayed.