Confirmed with Link: Marek Zidlicky to Detroit for a 3rd

[ArGarBarGar]

Point 1: I went on-record as being in favor of this move; but only as a rental. Lidstrom... he ain't.

Point 2: If you believe that ALL NHL Dmen do not need the ability to "puck-move".... frankly, I don't know what to say.


EDIT: I don't recall Lid's ever being called a "puck-moving" Dman. Could it be because he was a solid, 2-way Dman?

Notice I said "second sentence." That was your first.

Players like Ericsson and Dekeyser are not known as puck-movers because that isn't a type of skill they are exceptional at. Ericsson is a defensive defenseman because that is how he plays, same with DK. Rafalski was a PMD because that was the main skill he was good at.

If Lidstrom went on the market and fans of a team were looking for a PMD, they would jump at the chance to grab him because he excelled at that type of play. Any defensemen you grab through a trade is likely going to have flaws somewhere, especially if they are an available PMD. PMDs who are solid defensively don't often become available.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

How can anyone think yandle at 50% for duclair and a first plus spare parts us too much?

What's the equivalent on Detroit's end? Mantha?

 

[Dotter]

Non sequitur.

Sure it does

 

[BTCG]

Notice I said "second sentence." That was your first.

Players like Ericsson and Dekeyser are not known as puck-movers because that isn't a type of skill they are exceptional at. Ericsson is a defensive defenseman because that is how he plays, same with DK. Rafalski was a PMD because that was the main skill he was good at.

If Lidstrom went on the market and fans of a team were looking for a PMD, they would jump at the chance to grab him because he excelled at that type of play. Any defensemen you grab through a trade is likely going to have flaws somewhere, especially if they are an available PMD. PMDs who are solid defensively don't often become available.

PMD is a fairly recent invention. And I never heard Raffie referred to as a PMD either; he was solid with the puck, until his last year. Guys like Poti are/were given this term, so people have something nice to say about him. In actuality, it's code.

 

[SoupNazi]

Lets just hope they win the cup.

That didn't answer his question.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What's the equivalent on Detroit's end? Mantha?

I would have to look at an ind source of prospect rankings.

I think last i saw mantha was pretty high, higher than duclair, again i think.

So if duclair is ranked lets say 45th then he is equal to a guy between 35-55ish, not based on ind opinions.

 

[ap3x]

Every year this team and it's fans have an excuse why the team didn't go deep in playoffs. This year they have no excuse, none whatsoever.

I was proud of what Red Wings accomplished against Chicago a few years back and think they could have went further had Dekeyser been healthy. Fans and Babcock have been vocal about wanting top 4/6 players... well now they have it. No excuses this year. Everyone should be held accountable if they don't make the SCFs at the very least. Nobody is immune and should be evaluated on their future with the Detroit Red Wings. Babcock should be first on the chopping block. Next Zetterberg and Datsyuk should be looked to be traded and Holland should start a brand new chapter here in HockeyTown.

You make it sound like we traded the world for big time players. Whereas we loaded no new contract like Phaneuf's upon us, didn't get rid of guys like Mantha, Larkin, Mrazek, Jurco, Gus, Tatar, XO or Sproul, traded no 1st round picks and involved just a 2nd, a conditional 3rd and two guys whose future here wasn't really safe. Highly likely that the trades make us better and increases our chances to get deep into the playoffs without giving up too much for that run. So, I don't really see the downside here. Stay put and wait until Z and D are too old instead?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

PMD is a fairly recent invention. And I never heard Raffie referred to as a PMD either; he was solid with the puck, until his last year. Guys like Poti are/were given this term, so people have something nice to say about him. In actuality, it's code.

I don't think it always means bad things. In recent usage, it describes a player who skates, passes, and handles the puck well. Generally a player who excels at translating defensive zone possession to offensive zone possession.

 

[SoupNazi]

Let's work our way back to the topic of Zidlicky and away from the topic of tearing the team apart and rebuilding. Thanks.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I would have to look at an ind source of prospect rankings.

I think last i saw mantha was pretty high, higher than duclair, again i think.

So if duclair is ranked lets say 45th then he is equal to a guy between 35-55ish, not based on ind opinions.

if those rankings were done last summer, duclair has raised his value significantly then.

and maloney might have valued duclair as much or more than mantha.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

How can anyone think yandle at 50% for duclair and a first plus spare parts us too much?

Duclair = Mantha

You can legitimately argue that dealing off Mantha + 1 for Yandel @50% is fair value. It's probably not in the best interest of the organization longterm though.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I for one am looking forward to a group of
Kronwall-Zidlicky
Quincey-Dekeyser
Ericsson-Marchenko
Smith
...
Kindl
...
Lashoff

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

if those rankings were done last summer, duclair has raised his value significantly then.

and maloney might have valued duclair as much or more than mantha.

Of course

now looking at preseason mantha, jurco, mrazek and pulks all ranked higher.

Now of course personal GM opinion is what matters but its hard for hf board posters to say duclair equals mantha anymore than saying duclair equals druin.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

PMD is a fairly recent invention. And I never heard Raffie referred to as a PMD either; he was solid with the puck, until his last year. Guys like Poti are/were given this term, so people have something nice to say about him. In actuality, it's code.

On this board, probably as recent as 2012.

Might have been because one of the best at moving the puck retired?

Honestly, ask anyone on here what they think of when they say PMD, and I bet few, if any, of them will use "poor defensively" as a calling card of that term.

 

[BTCG]

I don't think it always means bad things. In recent usage, it describes a player who skates, passes, and handles the puck well. Generally a player who excels at translating defensive zone possession to offensive zone possession.

The term ignores the fact that ALL NHL Dmen should have good passing skills.

In the early 1990's, the Wings picked up some thug (I forget his name, think it began with an M). During the pre-game interview, Redmond called him a "gamer."

I'll never forget the Mick's answer when asked "Mickey, what's a gamer?"

Redmond: "A gamer is someone who fights a lot, but doesn't often win."

"Gamer" is code, as is PMD.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Duclair = Mantha

You can legitimately argue that dealing off Mantha + 1 for Yandel @50% is fair value. It's probably not in the best interest of the organization longterm though.

So YOU say

those whos career it is to collect and publish prospect rankings say otherwise.

Take personal opinion completely out and base it exclusively on published ind. rankings.

 

[Brandel*]

Here's a link to his most recent goals

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlp=8469623&lang=en

First goal on 4/13 is sick

 

[BTCG]

On this board, probably as recent as 2012.

Might have been because one of the best at moving the puck retired?

Honestly, ask anyone on here what they think of when they say PMD, and I bet few, if any, of them will use "poor defensively" as a calling card of that term.

Oh, I see... so someone on this board called Raffie a PMD.

That's good enough for me.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Here's a link to his most recent goals

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlp=8469623&lang=en

First goal on 4/13 is sick

After every goal he looks so serious. Guy means business, I like it!!! Wednesday can't come soon enough.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Oh, I see... so someone on this board called Raffie a PMD.

That's good enough for me.

What are you talking about?

Fact of the matter is the Wings needed (and maybe still do) a defenseman with the ability to move the puck out of the zone better than the defensemen we currently have on the roster.

Put any name you want on it. That's what we needed and Zidlicky was meant to fill that need.

 

[ap3x]

After every goal he looks so serious. Guy means business, I like it!!! Wednesday can't come soon enough.

True.

 

[Satrebil]

What are you talking about?

Fact of the matter is the Wings needed (and maybe still do) a defenseman with the ability to move the puck out of the zone better than the defensemen we currently have on the roster.

Put any name you want on it. That's what we needed and Zidlicky was meant to fill that need.

Exactly. BTCG, do you disagree?

 

[Outl4w]

What are you talking about?

Fact of the matter is the Wings needed (and maybe still do) a defenseman with the ability to move the puck out of the zone better than the defensemen we currently have on the roster.

Put any name you want on it. That's what we needed and Zidlicky was meant to fill that need.

Plus one for your post. I believe for the assets Zid was the best move. He doesn't hold back our longterm development one bit. We still have a log-jam of defensive prospects. The organization will probably make some moves to address that in the offeason. Hopefully we win the cup, and we come back and say Best TDL for Holland ever. We didn't give up much and got two VETERANS who can contribute. Cole is no slouch, and is better than every winger not named Tatar or Nyquist. Zid is a guy who can solidfy our PP. He also addresses issue of moving the puck in and out of the defensive and neutral zones.

 

[BTCG]

Exactly. BTCG, do you disagree?

Do I disagree that someone on the board called Raffie a PMD?

Not having read the posts, I take the guy at his word.

BUT: never heard Redmond (and I have seen EVERY Red Wing game since 1990) or Daniels call Lidstrom or Raffie a PMD.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

So YOU say

those whos career it is to collect and publish prospect rankings say otherwise.

Take personal opinion completely out and base it exclusively on published ind. rankings.

I'm not claiming to know than people whose job it is to rank prospects -- I'm pointing out that the closest analog to duclair in the Wings system is Mantha.

Duclair = Bluechip winger prospect

Manthan = Bluechip winger prospect

Arizona was looking for a bluechip prospect + 1st + whatever for Yandel

You can split hairs all you want with respect to which player is more valuable. The coyotes were looking for a top prospect, of which the wings only have two (Mantha and Larkin), and they weren't willing to part with either of them.