Player Discussion Marc Staal

[haveandare]

He's been just horrendous. So bad. Ask him where he wants to go and see if they'll take him for anything at all. I am not kidding.

 

[TheTakedown]

It could've been

McD-G
Staal/Yandle-Stralman
Skjei-Klein

Slats wanted Boyle instead.

if you want to go further, it could have been Vatanen in place of G...

McD-Klein
Staal-Stralman
Moore-Vatenen

Which could have blossomed into:

McD-Vatenen
Yandle-Stralman
Skjei-Klein

Jesus.... That could have been so good.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

if you want to go further, it could have been Vatanen in place of G...

McD-Klein
Staal-Stralman
Moore-Vatenen

Which could have blossomed into:

McD-Vatenen
Yandle-Stralman
Skjei-Klein

Jesus.... That could have been so good.

You are assuming a trade that we only heard rumors about. I'm just assuming we retain a certain player instead of deciding to sign a different player for the exact same spot.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Comparing Marc Staal's quality of passing with Dan Girardi is like comparing the goal scoring capability between Glass, John Scott and Donald Brashear.

Not every competition has a winner. When the question is "who gets you the least sad?" you're in for some hurt. Then add their contracts and you realize there are definitely no winners.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

That shift on the last Boston goal was brutal.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Well this was fun to watch.

 

[FLYLine27*]

His puck poise is usually top notch in his own zone, but as the video shows, something is wrong. You would be surprised to see him turn it over in the defensive zone like that even once during a game in previous seasons.

 

[Miller Time NYR]

Woulda been great to be a fly on the wall when the coaching staff likely showed him the same video, Marc what the actual ****? But really just seems like he's relying on instinct which is failing him he needs to take an extra second to think about where he's throwing the puck before he does it, that Boston game was brutal.

 

[Inferno]

so here are my thoughts.

When watching a video like that the first immediate thing that comes to mind is...
i'd hate to watch a 3 or 4 minute video of my eff-ups when i'm on the ice. just like i know my performance isnt the best 3 or 4 minutes of my best plays.

same thing goes with pros , their lows are low, their highs are high...even moreso for defenseman.

with all that said...the supercut there is really just a teenie tiny sampling of how absolutely putrid Marc has been this year. Honestly you can put together a video like that for every single game this year, and if you collectively put together a greatest hits for him this season, youd be lucky to fill in 5 minutes of video.

Staal hasnt just been bad, hes been easily the worst defenseman on the ice.

i know people love to point to Dan Girardi and his corsi this and corsi that, but i tend to like the eyeball test a lot...Dan isnt an elite defenseman by any stretch, but i still feel like he does positive things in the offensive zone, i feel like he manages to get the puck out, even if its coming back down our throats, etc.

I feel like what staal plays, he fails to do the most basic of things. get the puck outta the zone, tie up the forwards, win board battles, make a good pass...and forget about the offensive zone..hes a complete zero there.

marc staal does not deserve to be in the lineup. he hasnt done a single thing noteworthy other than 1 really sweet pass to set up a tap in a few games ago...thats really it. hes been a waste of space and should be sat till he finally gets it that his spot isnt guaranteed.

let me also say that ive never noticed marc being this slow before. hes always been slowish, but this is a new low...hes maybe one of the 3 or 4 slowest players ive seen all years...if not worse.

ugh.

 

[Raspewtin]

both Marc Staal AND Dan Girardi don't belong in the line-up and if accountability was a thing they wouldn't be.

 

[haveandare]

both Marc Staal AND Dan Girardi don't belong in the line-up and if accountability was a thing they wouldn't be.

Also if having at least another quality d man were a thing.

 

[Raspewtin]

Also if having at least another quality d man were a thing.

playing 5 defensemen is probably better at this point.

i'm half serious.

 

[zuckera1]

Here's what I wrote on 9/25/14 at 12:06PM . . .

Let me preface by saying that I like Staal as a player, feel he's one of the leaders in the locker room, and think he's a great guy off the ice. He was one of the first round picks that our front office got right almost 10 years ago when we drafted him. Let me also say that I've made these points before and just want to get them on the record before this season starts.

On the whole, if we sign this guy long-term for big dollars (around 6), we will regret it.

Contrary to popular belief around here, he's no longer an "Elite Shutdown Defender", and his role in that regard has diminished slightly with the emergence of McDonagh. He's not worth what he'll command on the second pairing for the limited offense he brings, not to mention his heightened injury risk. It's worth noting that our prospect corp. on the left handed side is deeper than on the right side.

People like to say Staal suffers from consistency issues, primarily because of his injuries. While his injuries have had an impact, Staal has always suffered from consistency issues even before his injuries and was, in my view, frequently overrated around here for two reasons: (1) he was a home-grown guy who had an impact immediately and (2) because of the success of his brothers (to a lesser extent). I never believed he fit the bill as an "elite shutdown defender," rather I believed he was a solid first-pairing defenseman with limited offense. His mistakes and deficiencies were always given a pass because, before McD, our defensive depth suffered and he (and Girardi) were all we had.

Staal is still a solid defenseman, but he was and still is prone to costly mistakes that are noticeable, particularly in moving the puck. Every defenseman has these mistakes, but Staal makes too many and is too inconsistent to pay him 6 million long-term on the second pair. It's not worth it to us, especially if our coach preaches offense and puck-moving ability from his defensemen. It is worth it to another team. Injuries have made Staal's inconsistency worse, and it's a known fact that because of his concussions he's at a heightened risk of missing more time and/or declining faster as he ages, which would result in 6 million of dead cap space if the man isn't playing. Furthermore, resigning him likely requires a limited NTC and may even warrant a Full NTC, and all indications point to him wanting to stay in NY. Trading him and ridding ourselves of a possible mistake won't be as easy as we all would like.

I 100% believe that Stralman carried the 2nd pairing throughout last year when Staal was coming back off his injury, and I think our front office made a mistake in letting Stralman go, who would have been cheaper and carries less long term risk with basically zero injury concerns. Instead, I believe we're unfortunately forced to keep Staal now after signing Dan Boyle who isn't solid in the defensive zone. I believe, however, that this pairing will be exposed this season defensively, primarily because Staal is not the player he once was.

I hope I'm wrong, and I'm open to hearing the responses defending Staal.

 

[bl02]

truly a shame how much he's regressed. Looks so slow out there. pretty much inept offensively.

 

[JohnC]

Here's what I wrote on 9/25/14 at 12:06PM . . .

Let me preface by saying that I like Staal as a player, feel he's one of the leaders in the locker room, and think he's a great guy off the ice. He was one of the first round picks that our front office got right almost 10 years ago when we drafted him. Let me also say that I've made these points before and just want to get them on the record before this season starts.

On the whole, if we sign this guy long-term for big dollars (around 6), we will regret it.

Contrary to popular belief around here, he's no longer an "Elite Shutdown Defender", and his role in that regard has diminished slightly with the emergence of McDonagh. He's not worth what he'll command on the second pairing for the limited offense he brings, not to mention his heightened injury risk. It's worth noting that our prospect corp. on the left handed side is deeper than on the right side.

People like to say Staal suffers from consistency issues, primarily because of his injuries. While his injuries have had an impact, Staal has always suffered from consistency issues even before his injuries and was, in my view, frequently overrated around here for two reasons: (1) he was a home-grown guy who had an impact immediately and (2) because of the success of his brothers (to a lesser extent). I never believed he fit the bill as an "elite shutdown defender," rather I believed he was a solid first-pairing defenseman with limited offense. His mistakes and deficiencies were always given a pass because, before McD, our defensive depth suffered and he (and Girardi) were all we had.

Staal is still a solid defenseman, but he was and still is prone to costly mistakes that are noticeable, particularly in moving the puck. Every defenseman has these mistakes, but Staal makes too many and is too inconsistent to pay him 6 million long-term on the second pair. It's not worth it to us, especially if our coach preaches offense and puck-moving ability from his defensemen. It is worth it to another team. Injuries have made Staal's inconsistency worse, and it's a known fact that because of his concussions he's at a heightened risk of missing more time and/or declining faster as he ages, which would result in 6 million of dead cap space if the man isn't playing. Furthermore, resigning him likely requires a limited NTC and may even warrant a Full NTC, and all indications point to him wanting to stay in NY. Trading him and ridding ourselves of a possible mistake won't be as easy as we all would like.

I 100% believe that Stralman carried the 2nd pairing throughout last year when Staal was coming back off his injury, and I think our front office made a mistake in letting Stralman go, who would have been cheaper and carries less long term risk with basically zero injury concerns. Instead, I believe we're unfortunately forced to keep Staal now after signing Dan Boyle who isn't solid in the defensive zone. I believe, however, that this pairing will be exposed this season defensively, primarily because Staal is not the player he once was.

I hope I'm wrong, and I'm open to hearing the responses defending Staal.

Someone should've smuggled you into contract negotiations

 

[Machinehead]

Also if having at least another quality d man were a thing.

Staal-Girardi are 25% CF% together this year, 3.41 goals against per 60, 0 goals scored.

I'd bet real money Skjei-Boyle beats the **** out of that.

 

[Inferno]

Staal-Girardi are 25% CF% together this year, 3.41 goals against per 60, 0 goals scored.

I'd bet real money Skjei-Boyle beats the **** out of that.

wow....thats almost difficult to believe....is the sample size extremely small?

 

[haveandare]

Staal-Girardi are 25% CF% together this year, 3.41 goals against per 60, 0 goals scored.

I'd bet real money Skjei-Boyle beats the **** out of that.

That'd mean

McD - Klein
Yandle - McI
Skjei - Boyle

?

Or swap Klein and McI? I'm not super confident that either of them should be playing top competition but I am certain that Girardi shouldn't be either. Hard to say. I wish G were cheaper, I wouldnt have much problem with him getting easier minutes and PK time. He's oddly smart at pinching despite otherwise being fairly useless offensively.

Id like to see McD and McI toyed with at some point after McI becomes a true regular. Not saying that he's necessarily a first pairing guy even at his peak but I think he may eventually max out to the sort of player who can compliment a true first pairing guy acceptably.

 

[Machinehead]

wow....thats almost difficult to believe....is the sample size extremely small?

56 minutes.

Usually AV likes to put them out there late to protect, because EHRMAGEHRD SHERTDERN DERFERNCE!!!

 

[Inferno]

56 minutes.

Usually AV likes to put them out there late to protect, because EHRMAGEHRD SHERTDERN DERFERNCE!!!

thats just....wow

 

[haveandare]

56 minutes.

Usually AV likes to put them out there late to protect, because EHRMAGEHRD SHERTDERN DERFERNCE!!!

Well in his defense it works almost literally a hundred times more often that it doesn't

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

The real question is who is more mobile staal or the mannequins they used in practice today

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

The real question is who is more mobile staal or the mannequins they used in practice today

The mannequins have better vision on the ice

 

[Raspewtin]

Well in his defense it works almost literally a hundred times more often that it doesn't

there's a very large give point for "it worked" though.

 

[haveandare]

there's a very large give point for "it worked" though.

True.

I don't love it but I'm a little conflicted because you see that record when leading in the third and it's hard to argue that whatever they've been doing hasn't been right. Though it's not the same record in the playoffs and I think trying that then is a horrible, horrible idea as evidenced by the lack of banner hanging in msg.