Rumor: Marc Bergevin looking for a defensemen since ...

[overlords]

Demers makes little sense for the Habs, another puck mover.

This isn't EA's NHL series. Nothing is as black and white as 'OFD/DFD' in real life. There are shades of grey, and even then, puckmovers on the same line still work, providing they are good players. When you can add a good player, you do it. You figure out 'player types' or whatever you want to call it later.

Besides, do you want to know who is a worse fit than Demers?

 

[OpenIceHit]

Did you watch the last few games with Tinordi? He's not sitting because there's not room. He's sitting because he has sucked.

I'd be more comfortable playing Despres over Tinordi. Not really the same place in their developmental curve. I'd also probably play him over Bouillon,drewiske, and Murray. You're not gonna get guys in their prime, too expensive and we don't have the assets for that just yet. And we don't need any more injury prone, over the hill vets. Trading replaceable depth to take a chance on youth is what the habs should be doing.

But Tinordi will get better by playing. I still think he has his place on this team, and not as a 7th D. Right now, he's the perfect 5-6th D.

 

[Monctonscout]

I wouldn't mind seeing him grab Asham off of waivers at this point.

Why? What does he bring that Parros Moen Prust White Bournival don't?

Girardi would be a good target if the Rangers keep on losing in the next few games... But they might want to hold on to him until the trade deadline to pump up his value, and at that point Emelin and Murray should be back...

To the one person suggesting trading Pacioretty or Gorges + Beaulieu/2nd for Girardi though...

If NYR trades Girardi they will want a pile of youth...1st plus a top young player and maybe a depth d-man. Trading a 1st and a top prospect for a 6 month rental would be a real dumb move for MB.

At this point, the only roster forwards I'd move are DD and Briere. I don't see MB moving Briere, and I dont see any teams taking DD.

I'm sure there are teams that would take DD, teams are always looking for offense and for centers...problem is, who do you replace him with? Prust? Bournival? Why bother trading him cheap then having a downgrade in your top 9?

Friedman mentioned in his 30 thoughts today that Bergevin was shopping for a d-man but elected to give Tinordi and Beaulieu more ice-time instead

That was probably 2-3 weeks ago when Murray and Drewiske went down.

We can't even play Tinordi when we have 3 defensmens injured and we're talking about getting a D who's in the exact same place in his development?

Some of these proposals make no sence.

I can see MB being interested if it's a "buy low" trype situation...not in terms of need.

 

[Monctonscout]

This isn't EA's NHL series. Nothing is as black and white as 'OFD/DFD' in real life. There are shades of grey, and even then, puckmovers on the same line still work, providing they are good players. When you can add a good player, you do it. You figure out 'player types' or whatever you want to call it later.

Besides, do you want to know who is a worse fit than Demers?

Trading for Demers makes no sense if you are creating a hole elswhere and adding to a strength.

 

[Dominator13]

Did you watch the last few games with Tinordi? He's not sitting because there's not room. He's sitting because he has sucked.

I'd be more comfortable playing Despres over Tinordi. Not really the same place in their developmental curve. I'd also probably play him over Bouillon,drewiske, and Murray. You're not gonna get guys in their prime, too expensive and we don't have the assets for that just yet. And we don't need any more injury prone, over the hill vets. Trading replaceable depth to take a chance on youth is what the habs should be doing.

Yeah, and he sucks because Therrien is holding him back. Bouillon is crapping the bed a lot more than Tinordi btw.

 

[overlords]

Trading for Demers makes no sense if you are creating a hole elswhere and adding to a strength.

If you read my post, it was about trading Desharnais for Demers. Hardly creating a 'hole', as you say. You wouldn't do that trade? Really? At this point, Bergevin would get hung up on proposing that one.

Is it ideal? Of course not. We're not going to get Rivet trades very often. You improve your team when and where you can.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

If we had people at CAL then I'd hope it's for Giordano. CGY is pretty dumb, let's make a trade!

 

[overlords]

Yeah, and he sucks because Therrien is holding him back. Bouillon is crapping the bed a lot more than Tinordi btw.

Well that's a different story. I'll agree with you on Bouillon, there. Beaulieu did well in his last game, however, and it's not like we're playing some worldbeater team.

 

[Dominator13]

This isn't EA's NHL series. Nothing is as black and white as 'OFD/DFD' in real life. There are shades of grey, and even then, puckmovers on the same line still work, providing they are good players. When you can add a good player, you do it. You figure out 'player types' or whatever you want to call it later.

Besides, do you want to know who is a worse fit than Demers?

Wowsa, I disagree 100%.

You draft the BPA, but you trade for your needs, PERIOD. Too much of the same is what the lower echelon teams are made of. We have puck movers, we will certaintly not waste assets to get more of what we have.

 

[Monctonscout]

Yeah, and he sucks because Therrien is holding him back. Bouillon is crapping the bed a lot more than Tinordi btw.

Not unless you have the "HF Boards goggles" on.

 

[Monctonscout]

If you read my post, it was about trading Desharnais for Demers. Hardly creating a 'hole', as you say. You wouldn't do that trade? Really? At this point, Bergevin would get hung up on proposing that one.

Is it ideal? Of course not. We're not going to get Rivet trades very often. You improve your team when and where you can.

It does create a hole, you trade a top 9 forward and have nobody to replace him. Yeah he's struggling, big deal, so are about 10 all-stars, the season is 5 games old!

...and for what, another smaller puck mover, which we have a ton in the organisation.

 

[overlords]

It does create a hole, you trade a top 9 forward and have nobody to replace him. Yeah he's struggling, big deal, so are about 10 all-stars, the season is 5 games old!

...and for what, another smaller puck mover, which we have a ton in the organisation.

Yeah, we have a ton of small puck movers in this organisation.

We have.. uh.. diaz and uh.... Um. Not much else?


Unless we use the MonctonScout ruler for 'small' players, which evidently still counts players 6 feet tall as 'small'.

Christ, I guess I should put Subban in the 'small' category too. Markov as well. Then I guess you can add Bennett and thrower, maybe. Still not very many small players in our organisation I would qualify as 'puck movers'.

Not that Demers is a 'small puck mover' to begin with, but I digress. I try to look at quality of play rather than height/weight.

As for having nobody to replace Desharnais, how about briere? Or galchenyuk? Even Bournival could slot in for a game or two if the first two went down to freakish injuries.

Desharnais has been struggling for far longer than 10 games, and he has basically done exactly what many who watched him during his first, 'great' season predicted that he would do. This isn't some anomaly.

 

[Dominator13]

It does create a hole, you trade a top 9 forward and have nobody to replace him. Yeah he's struggling, big deal, so are about 10 all-stars, the season is 5 games old!

...and for what, another smaller puck mover, which we have a ton in the organisation.

No it doesn't. We have Briere and Galchenyuk as wingers when they're centers and we have Pust + Bournival who can definetely play top 9 roles. To save 3.5 mil + getting rid of the dwarf, I trade him 10 times out of 10.

 

[Issacar]

No it doesn't. We have Briere and Galchenyuk as wingers when they're centers and we have Pust + Bournival who can definetely play top 9 roles. To save 3.5 mil + getting rid of the dwarf, I trade him 10 times out of 10.

Apparently you didn't got Therrien memo "Galchenyuk will get ice time at center when he's ready". Why are you even bringing him up on the table when we all know it's not oging to happen even if Desharnais somehow disappear before 8pm GDT.

 

[Monctonscout]

No it doesn't. We have Briere and Galchenyuk as wingers when they're centers and we have Pust + Bournival who can definetely play top 9 roles. To save 3.5 mil + getting rid of the dwarf, I trade him 10 times out of 10.

Prust can play top 9 OCCASIONALLY, if you play him there full time he'll be out of the lineup by January. With his style game you have to control his ice time, if you play him 16 minutes a game plus PK time it will blow up in your fcae.

Bournival has not shown he deserves to be 4th line every game let alone play top 9 in a spot where he would need to generate offense.

Why are you obsessed with the 3.5 mil, is it your money being paid? It's not like there are UFA's out there willing to sign for cheap. We have nearly 2 mil in cap space doing nothing already.

 

[domdo345]

It is not because they are small and good with the puck that they are puck movers. The only puck mover we have in this organisation is Subban. Diaz and Markov are puck distributors but won't skate out of trouble nor gain the offensive zone. Well, Markov used to but not anymore. The only other D close to that is Francis Bouillotte who systematically gets the red line and dumps it, which more often than not results in a loss of possession. I beleive we are actually lacking puck movers on the blue line. That, and D's that will join the rush on the second wave. We're having very few odd man rushes caused by our Dmen joinning the attack. That's why I am shaking my head when people wants to trade Beaulieu. Look at the superior teams Dmen, you'll see many puck movers and D's that will join the rush. (Blues, Hawks, Pens, Bruins, Detroit...you get the point)

 

[Quagmier]

Did you watch the last few games with Tinordi? He's not sitting because there's not room. He's sitting because he has sucked.

I'd be more comfortable playing Despres over Tinordi. Not really the same place in their developmental curve. I'd also probably play him over Bouillon,drewiske, and Murray. You're not gonna get guys in their prime, too expensive and we don't have the assets for that just yet. And we don't need any more injury prone, over the hill vets. Trading replaceable depth to take a chance on youth is what the habs should be doing.

Absolutely this. Especially on D. I agree with Maguire that the Habs are in a transition year. There are 10 (arguably) NHL caliber defenseman under contract this year. and exactly 4 next year. Bringing in some young talent to shore out the roster not only allows the team to move in a younger direction, but prevents them from being over a barrel when it comes time to negotiate contracts with some of the depth Dmen at season's end.

Subban is going to get his money no matter what. But when it comes time to offer contracts to guys like Markov, Emelin and (maybe) Diaz, i'd say Bergevin would have a bit more leeway with a couple of guys like Despres and Demers in the mix than without. Why not role the dice on a couple of young guys who have either fallen out of favor with their organization or are redundant on their team's depth chart? Worst case they can be moved (as youth is a valauble commodity in the NHL) and best case you add a serviceable Dman.

The Habs are in a great situation on D because we actually have the #1 stud defenseman (bouillon...just seeing if you are paying attention). A team like Edmonton actually has some decent D men and young prospects, but without that elite guy they seem to struggle. Vancouver is another example: they thought they had their stud in Edler, so they threw elite money at him and filled the roster with other serviceable but ultimately flawed parts (Hamhuis, Bieksa, Garrison, Tanev). When Edler turned out to not be able to handle the responsibility, everything kinda fell out of whack. Same thing with Philly, where as soon as you remove Pronger from that lineup they turn into a pile of mush. Meanwhile, I'm convinced that a healthy Pronger in that lineup makes them a playoff team.

Subban is going to be that guy for the Habs. His skills are top level, and his durability and competitiveness will keep him productive for a long time. I am also convinced that we likely won't be seeing another offseason of signing aging vets as stop gaps as Bergevin gets more comfortable with this team's identity and is ready to hand the reigns off to the kids.

I think a good comparison is the Sharks from a few years ago. They had Boyle as their elite guy, and a couple of vets to bring stability to the roster (guys like Murray, Huskins, White, etc.) but they always managed to inject another young Dman into the lineup each year, and now they are being led by guys like Vlasic, Demers and Justin Braun. I think the Habs start doing this as early as next year with Bouillon, Murray and (possibly) Diaz gone. Beaulieu and Tinordi will be ready to step in and contribute, and hopefully Bergevin could add another young up and coming D man to the mix as well.

 

[Quagmier]

Prust can play top 9 OCCASIONALLY, if you play him there full time he'll be out of the lineup by January. With his style game you have to control his ice time, if you play him 16 minutes a game plus PK time it will blow up in your fcae.

Bournival has not shown he deserves to be 4th line every game let alone play top 9 in a spot where he would need to generate offense.

Why are you obsessed with the 3.5 mil, is it your money being paid? It's not like there are UFA's out there willing to sign for cheap. We have nearly 2 mil in cap space doing nothing already.

I have no doubt in my mind that Bournival can step into the 4th line centre role immediately and be effective. I think its more a matter of Therrien/Bergevin not rushing him into that role when they don't have to.

He may not be ready for a top 9 role, but Desharnais has brought nothing to the table so far this year either (although i was at the Vancouver game and DD played his best game in a long time...so maybe things will turn around?). I would not worry too much about trading him to solidify our D. Especially if we can get a young D man with upside.

 

[otto bond]

Girardi would be a good target if the Rangers keep on losing in the next few games... But they might want to hold on to him until the trade deadline to pump up his value, and at that point Emelin and Murray should be back...

To the one person suggesting trading Pacioretty or Gorges + Beaulieu/2nd for Girardi though...

I said that, well you got it just about right.
What I was trying to get across was that for us to get Girardi, NY would want to have Max in the conversation. The problem here is that they both have about the same value. I wouldn't do Patch straight up for Girardi but if it was Girardi+Brassard for Patch and DD, well I would have to think about that one.
As for the proposal with Gorges, I did say Beaulieu and a pick but I meant a pick or Beaulieu. Looking at my previous post, you will see just that.
Girardi is NYR's top Defender and I dought we could get him for a couple of unknown prospect and a 1st. Look at what the sens paided for Ryan, a darn good rookie, a prospect and a first.

 

[Quagmier]

I said that, well you got it just about right.
What I was trying to get across was that for us to get Girardi, NY would want to have Max in the conversation. The problem here is that they both have about the same value. I wouldn't do Patch straight up for Girardi but if it was Girardi+Brassard for Patch and DD, well I would have to think about that one.
As for the proposal with Gorges, I did say Beaulieu and a pick but I meant a pick or Beaulieu. Looking at my previous post, you will see just that.
Girardi is NYR's top Defender and I dought we could get him for a couple of unknown prospect and a 1st. Look at what the sens paided for Ryan, a darn good rookie, a prospect and a first.

My worries about that scenario are that 1) Pacioretty is under team control for a long time at a phenominal price while Girardi is a UFA to be. 2) Brassard is yet another undersized, perimeter forward on a team stocked with them 3) I worry people may be thinking of the Girardi of two years ago who formed half of the best shutdown pairing in the league rather than the Girardi of the past two years who hasn't been anywhere near that level. 5) there is a strong chance that Girardi was a significant benefactor of Torts' shotblock-heavy defensive system and would struggle on a more open team. 6) Girardi started attracting praise around the same time that he was paired with McDonagh, which leads me to suspect that McD might be partially responsible for Girardi's increased level of play.

Basically, I think that whatever team throws moneybags at Girardi this offseason will be disappointed in the player they get. Don't get me wrong Girardi is a warrior, a solid defensive defenseman and a good teammate by all accounts, but he is a 2nd pairing guy not a first. He was in an ideal situation in NY and playing with McD whose skillset complimented his perfectly (think of the Markov effect and all the shutdown D men that have flourished with him).

Basically i wouldn't be willing to give up what the Rangers would likely ask for in a trade for Girardi.

 

[rockjngo]

Apparently Marc Bergervin was caught chatting with Craig MacTavish on his iPad during the second period. Nail Yakupov?

 

[Fifthgear]

Apparently Marc Bergervin was caught chatting with Craig MacTavish on his iPad during the second period. Nail Yakupov?

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Monctonscout]

I said that, well you got it just about right.
What I was trying to get across was that for us to get Girardi, NY would want to have Max in the conversation. The problem here is that they both have about the same value. I wouldn't do Patch straight up for Girardi but if it was Girardi+Brassard for Patch and DD, well I would have to think about that one.
As for the proposal with Gorges, I did say Beaulieu and a pick but I meant a pick or Beaulieu. Looking at my previous post, you will see just that.
Girardi is NYR's top Defender and I dought we could get him for a couple of unknown prospect and a 1st. Look at what the sens paided for Ryan, a darn good rookie, a prospect and a first.

Pacioretty-Girardi makes no sense at all at this point. Their values are worlds apart, Pacioretty is signed at a cheap 4.5 mil cap hit for 4+ years while Girardi is a UFA next summer. If they Rangers could sign him anywhere close to 4.5 mil cap hit he would already have an extension in place, I expect he will cost around 5 mil with a home town discount.

Ottawa paid more for Ryan because he is not coming up on UFA status, he had 2 years left on his contract. Apples vs oranges.

 

[overlords]

Pacioretty-Girardi makes no sense at all at this point. Their values are worlds apart, Pacioretty is signed at a cheap 4.5 mil cap hit for 4+ years while Girardi is a UFA next summer. If they Rangers could sign him anywhere close to 4.5 mil cap hit he would already have an extension in place, I expect he will cost around 5 mil with a home town discount.

Ottawa paid more for Ryan because he is not coming up on UFA status, he had 2 years left on his contract. Apples vs oranges.

This is a pretty good example of what you were talking about before. Opening up a hole to file in another. You can't trade maxpac. He's our only legit 1st line winger.

 

[mrinsane]

Z. Michalek is the man