Sportsnet: Maple Leafs need to mend divided dressing room

[diceman934]

This is the time I wish we had a real captain that would pull Polak aside and tell him to air out his comment within the dressing room. The media is so thirsty for anything they can amplify.

And yeah, Polak's comment ITSELF is not wrong. He, the players, everyone has to play better D. But saying "some players" means he's talking about a specific group. That's a dumb thing to say to a reporter.

What's wrong is he said it to a reporter and not to his teammates.

Do you really believe that he had not said anything to the players all ready? He has reached his limit.

 

[Leviathan899]

Who gives a rats ass what the title of the article is? That is just to grab peoples attention. The real issue is the actual quotes from Polak. If you read that entire article and the only issue you have is "well the article is misleading" then you need to seriously figure it out.

It is painfully obvious who Polak is talking about, but it isn't news to me as just watching the team play you can come to the same conclusions. I feel the people who just reply with "well Kessel gets 80 points so it doesn't matter what else he does" have never actually played hockey at a competitive level.

 

[LeeIs]

When you bring in half a roster to babysit the other half, this will happen.

They treated Carlyle like a substitute teacher and now they're pissing off the babysitters.

Love this post. right on.

 

[Leviathan899]

Polak is just saying what anyone that follows and watches the Leafs play regular already knows. Leafs can't and are unwilling to commit to play defense.

2013-14 = 256 goals against verses 2014-15 = 128 goals against /41 games [= 256 GA/82]

&
2014-15 record @ 41 games = 21-17-3 for 45 points
vs
2013-14 record @ 41 games = 20-16-5 for 45 points

Leafs swapped out their entire bottom 6 forwards and added Polak and Robidas to the defense and it accomplished nothing in terms of improvement.

I guess Orr, McLaren, McClement, Ranger etc etc weren't the problem as their replacements haven't changed anything.

The problem with this team remains the core players that didn't change and most importantly refuse to change the way they play. !!.

I fail to see how anybody could disagree with this post.

 

[Leviathan899]

Nothing wrong with what Polak said. They are valid comments. Now the media takes those comments and spins them as the room is divided. That is total BS how do they know....they are not in the room full time on the plane or at the hotel in the rooms with players.

Now the only beef I have with the Polak comments is the timing. I don't think he is the savvied media guy out there but I would have probably kept those comments in my back pocket for a week or so until you saw how the team responds to Hornachek.

Also not the best time to do it right after a coaching fire and the media is in a Leaf bashing frenzy just more fuel for their negative stuff.....hence the spun headling of LEAF ROOM DIVIDED.

I agree with you maybe he should have given it 3-4 games at least before making this public with the media, but he is an emotional guy and he probably just had enough. Yubbers likes to say we adore "scrubs", which isn't true, but actually players who play with heart and show desire to make a difference. Polak showing the courage to come back from an injury like that and still playing hard, regardless of talent level, should be applauded IMO. I imagine he was fired up and was pissed off, and was asked the question from the reporter and gave an honest answer, nothing wrong with that at all. If what he said makes the room more divided then it probably already is (regardless of the misleading title), then Polak proves to be right. Just my two cents.

 

[Gigi Elle]

We don't always get absolute truth, or at least not worded in a vague way. I don't believe at all that should equate to there being issues among teammates. The best timing for the media to grab that quote? Probably not.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I wish Polak would commit himself to not sucking so bad.

 

[Ratboy]

The Leafs rooms look like aristocrats and peasants: the core that failed repeatedly and the cheap offseason guys who are expected to work hard, dig **** and clean up after them.

Holy crap, you're right. It's a friggin class war. That's probably the best analogy in this whole thread.

 

[Durkin67]

I'm not denying there's a problem. That's the difference between how I perceive the problem and how you do. I'm not going to read into the "dynamics" of a dressing room based on things I see on TV. I'm sure there are divisions in the locker room. I'm sure some players aren't liked. I'm sure there's one guy everyone likes a lot. Maybe there's a class clown who pranks everyone.

However, when a team can't break out of their own zone properly. Or a team is saddled with Clarkson for five years who does nothing. Or when a team can't seem to help compliment an elite scorer. Then I don't blame the dressing room dynamics. I blame the management, top down for systematic failure.

I don't care if Toronto media pump out stories about locker room divides and nobody welcoming Polak. That's like following a WWE storyline. To me, the real problem that I'm upset about is how this team is horribly mismanaged. It's a joke, it's embarrassing and it needs to stop.

You're conveniently confusing the issues.

No one is debating whether there is a problem with execution of on ice strategies.

And Mr Elite Scorer could certainly stand to do a little to help himself, and his teammates by playing a more engaged brand of hockey instead of trying to make the highlight reel. Why does he get a bye? Why are everyone else required to back check and support the D while Kessel does pirouettes in the neutral zone wiring for an outlet pass?


You can blame management all you like. Fact is, they've paid every one of them extremely well to play as part of a team and to adhere to the structures that have been put in place. They refuse to do so, especially your elite scorer.

Diceman is a regular poster here and he was at the game in WPG. He says he was seated behind the bench and he witnessed a fractured, disconnected group going through the motions, showing no enthusiasm or emotion on the bench. Clarkson was the only one who was pissed off enough to address it and say something to his teammates.

Thats not how successful professional sports clubs operate. They get each other ramped up. They acknowledge acts of valour, a great save, a big hot or a fight. If a team doesn't show support for each other, do you want to blame management for that? Thats a CHARACTER issue. Thats not a management issue.

 

[Mess]

I wish Polak would commit himself to not sucking so bad.

That is the irony in play here in that Polak is calling out his teammates for their defensive play and yet he is actually the worst of the bunch himself.

If you take the 187 NHL dmen that are regulars in the NHL (300 minutes played) and sort them by goals against for 60 minutes (GA60) then Roman Polak ends up 8th (worst) of 187 players giving up 3.27 goals against at 5v5 even strength.

Only 7 NHL Dmen are on the ice for more goals against / 60 minutes this year than Roman.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...300&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=DESC

So either Roman is bad or he is suggesting he is bad because his teammates are not committed to team defense and he is being exposed. In STL under Hitchcock they played a solid game with lots of forward support and now the defense if hung out to dry by "some players that are only interested in offense" according to Polak.

 

[gtforepro]

I don’t have much time to post in here often, but I do always lurk. Sorry, if this rambles a bit, but I think this whole debate over Kessel is a little out of touch with where this organization is currently at. The Leafs as an organization (I teach organizational sociology at a college level) are moving from a dysfunctional organization to; hopefully, a more functional one with Brendan Shanahan at the helm. He was very cautious and careful at the beginning of his reign, as he should have been. He brought in guys he trusts; Dubas, Hunter, Horachek, Spott, etc. to help him evaluate. He gave Carlyle a chance to get the players to buy into his system. It didn’t work; he is now letting Horachek, a man he brought in and trusts evaluate players.

We keep hearing about how some players (we do not know who) refuse to play in a structured system based around a 200 ft. game that works in today’s NHL and that Shanahan wants to play. Phil Kessel, by all accounts is a player who struggles with playing defence. He is a sublime offensive talent and I do not believe for one minute that he could not contribute (or even feature) on a cup winning team. He could win a Conn Smythe, score 50 goals, etc. However, if he does not buy into playing a 200 ft. game with the Maple Leafs, it is better to move him.

When attempting to repair a dysfunctional organization; it is not a good move to say; you must play in our system or else you will be replaced and then turn around and allow players based upon their skill to remain despite not buying in. It sets the organization up for failure; new players, young players, etc. will view this as if you’re not talented enough you must play in the system, but if you’re talented the rules don’t apply. When this happens you end up with the same situation you have right now.

Good post.

 

[yubbers]

I agree with you maybe he should have given it 3-4 games at least before making this public with the media, but he is an emotional guy and he probably just had enough. Yubbers likes to say we adore "scrubs", which isn't true, but actually players who play with heart and show desire to make a difference. Polak showing the courage to come back from an injury like that and still playing hard, regardless of talent level, should be applauded IMO. I imagine he was fired up and was pissed off, and was asked the question from the reporter and gave an honest answer, nothing wrong with that at all. If what he said makes the room more divided then it probably already is (regardless of the misleading title), then Polak proves to be right. Just my two cents.

He has the second worst plus minus on the team. Behind only Gardiner.

Tough or not, he has NO place calling out anyones defensive game.

 

[Ratboy]

He has the second worst plus minus on the team. Behind only Gardiner.

Tough or not, he has NO place calling out anyones defensive game.

Maybe he's sick of forwards not coming back to help him out.

(may help his +/-)

 

[janesy12]

When you bring in half a roster to babysit the other half, this will happen.

They treated Carlyle like a substitute teacher and now they're pissing off the babysitters.

This, my friend is amazing.

When your star players care about nothing only their own stats, scoring goals, photo shoots, avoiding contact and shot blocking, the team will lose.

The days of our star players being the hardest working and most dedicated are gone.
Sundin, Gilmour, Clark, Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Tucker, Corson, Kaberle, McCabe.
These guys worked hard, and won as a team. Not saying they were all stars, but a huge impact of a winning culture for years. These players and respective teams battled every night, and their stats reflected their hard work.

Carlyle was fired because it was the logical move. He may have lost the room, and sometimes his line combo's or decisions were questionable but maybe he had to try something to get these guys going.

Not picking on Kessel, but say you're on a bench and your best player is out there throwing pucks away and avoiding battles, contact, and afraid to block shots. Would that get you fired up?

That's my opinion. Love it, hate it, up to you. However, when the core of your club has proven time and time again that when its time to dig down and battle, or are faced with adversity they cower away, its time to change your club.

 

[JoeyBeans]

that would be amazing!

one big package.

 

[BlueForever]

Well another former player has now come out which makes what Polak is saying some what true. JS Giguere played with Kessel, Bozak, Phanuef, Kadri and others currently on the team that states regardless of the coach that players on the Leafs want to play pond hockey and not buy into a system.

I dont think any coach will help this group. The group needs to as a team and buy in to a system to succeed. And that charge should be lead by Kessel and Phaneuf. If these two guys will not buy in then get rid of them.

Your team only goes as far as its best players. When they lead by example the rest of the team will follow.

 

[Ratboy]

Let the great sell-off begin!

 

[paulster2626]

That is the irony in play here in that Polak is calling out his teammates for their defensive play and yet he is actually the worst of the bunch himself.

If you take the 187 NHL dmen that are regulars in the NHL (300 minutes played) and sort them by goals against for 60 minutes (GA60) then Roman Polak ends up 8th (worst) of 187 players giving up 3.27 goals against at 5v5 even strength.

Only 7 NHL Dmen are on the ice for more goals against / 60 minutes this year than Roman.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...300&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=DESC

So either Roman is bad or he is suggesting he is bad because his teammates are not committed to team defense and he is being exposed. In STL under Hitchcock they played a solid game with lots of forward support and now the defense if hung out to dry by "some players that are only interested in offense" according to Polak.

Would you trade Polak for Hamhuis or Johnson straight up?

 

[Durkin67]

He has the second worst plus minus on the team. Behind only Gardiner.

Tough or not, he has NO place calling out anyones defensive game.

OK number-nerds (I use that term respectfully) whats the skinny?

Polak's offensive zone starts and overall time spent in the O zone VS D zone.

 

[Mess]

I fail to see how anybody could disagree with this post.

You would be surprised.

Goals For
2014-15 @41 games = 132 GF [264 GF /season]
vs
2013-14 @82 games = 231 GF

Offensively the Leafs have improved and are on pace for +33 more goals then last year.

However its a common misconception that ** Offense Wins **, as the team's record and Polak are trying to say its team defense that is the reason Leafs are not successful despite being the 2nd highest scoring team in the NHL. Polak is pointing out his teammates are far to interested in padding their offensive stats and not willing to put in the same effort without the puck.. Its hard to dispute Polak's point based on the stats in evidence.

If you are a solid defensive team you have a chance to win every game, however if you rely on offense to outscore your mistakes you live and die by the sword when that offense doesn't consistently deliver.

 

[yubbers]

Many of you fail to see how bad that Gunner deal was.

We replaced our top defensive dman last year on the top line with Cody Franson. Enough said. He's put up some points so people have forgotten he's still just as bad defensively. Gunner is a plus 10 and Polak -10. That's not a tiny spread. Same point totals too. Maybe 1 up for Polak now with his assist the other night

YOU'RE one of the reasons were worse defensively Polak. Have that talk again with yourself in the mirror

 

[Mess]

Many of you fail to see how bad that Gunner deal was.

We replaced our top defensive dman last year on the top line with Cody Franson. Enough said. He's put up some points so people have forgotten he's still just as bad defensively. Gunner is a plus 10 and Polak -10. That's not a tiny spread. Same point totals too. Maybe 1 up for Polak now with his assist the other night

YOU'RE one of the reasons were worse defensively Polak. Have that talk again with yourself in the mirror

Its actually much worse than that.

Lets look at Corsi goals against 5v5 per 60 minutes (GA60).

If you take the NHL dman that have played a minumum of 300 minutes this year you have 187 NHL Dmen.

Roman Polak at 3.27 GA60 = #8th worst of 187 total.
verses
Carl Gunnarsson who is a 1.43 GA60 = #12th best in the NHL of 187

Polak and Gunnarsson are at the complete opposites of the scale defensively when on the ice for even strength goal against. Where only 11 NHL regular Dmen are better than Gunnar and only 7 NHL dmen are worse than Polak.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...300&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=DESC

This is a trade made by a GM that doesn't understand how to apply analytics to team building when you're trying to get better defensively.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Many of you fail to see how bad that Gunner deal was.

We replaced our top defensive dman last year on the top line with Cody Franson. Enough said. He's put up some points so people have forgotten he's still just as bad defensively. Gunner is a plus 10 and Polak -10. That's not a tiny spread. Same point totals too. Maybe 1 up for Polak now with his assist the other night

YOU'RE one of the reasons were worse defensively Polak. Have that talk again with yourself in the mirror

LOL. You know they play for different teams now right?

 

[Mess]

LOL. You know they play for different teams now right?

Gunnarsson's +/- is actually weaker this year in STL as last year he lead the Leafs team with a +13 +/- on a team that finished bottom 5 in goals against.

 

[yubbers]

LOL. You know they play for different teams now right?

We've been through this

Gunner had better everything last year than Polak playing for the worse defensive team in the leafs.

They're not comparable defenseman