Rumor: Mantha to EDM for RNH?

[Heaton]

No, please tell me what RNH does “so much better” than Mantha besides for pointing at his output. There’s nothing that points to him being a plus defender, nothing that points to him being a plus offensive player, nothing that points to him being a plus center. You’re being baited into a player who will sign a long term $8M contract for a top six winger being classified as a center because he takes a lot of face offs.

It's basically the eye test for me, I see a lot more to like overall from RNH than I do from Mantha. Mantha definitely has those Franzen vibes (without reaching Franzen level status). Plays unbelievable for stretches, but is completely useless for even longer stretches. Mantha seems to be catching on lately and especially down the stretch and recently in international play. But it's always a worry for me that he's going to reach a level of salary that only pays off for a low % of the season.

 

[The Zermanator]

It's basically the eye test for me, I see a lot more to like overall from RNH than I do from Mantha. Mantha definitely has those Franzen vibes (without reaching Franzen level status). Plays unbelievable for stretches, but is completely useless for even longer stretches. Mantha seems to be catching on lately and especially down the stretch and recently in international play. But it's always a worry for me that he's going to reach a level of salary that only pays off for a low % of the season.

Franzen didn't become the player he was until he was ~27 though. Mantha at 25 is more impressive than Franzen was at that age. Whether he can take those next steps remains to be seen. But his year over year improvement has been impressive so that's encouraging. And that's where Mantha takes the edge over RNH for me. RNH is basically what he has always been, his improvement between the year he was drafted and now is miniscule compared to the strides Mantha has taken. RNH was #1 overall, but it seems increasingly clear with every passing year of similar results that he was simply an early bloomer. He's a top 6 C/W, ideally 2nd line, and that's what he is. He was picked first because he was basically already a top 6 C/W when he was drafted, thus it's understandable why teams would think he had a very high ceiling. Mantha is also solidly a top 6 W, but he has shown potential to be more, and has been progressing well to that end. Especially as the talent level around him has improved.

RNH is probably the better player now in all honesty, but it's really not that big a gap (if any). So in terms of evaluating value, other factors become more important as a result. For me, I see Mantha with a greater potential to improve from where he stands now than RNH, and his contract status is also more valuable. RNH is a very good player and I'd love him on the team, but not like this. I have a nagging feeling that if we made this move we'd be regretting it as soon as next season.

 

[obey86]

Are we pretending Mantha isn't a passenger?

Out of curiosity, what are you basing your conclusions from? How often do have you watched RNH play? I'm no expert, but I've watched 75% of Oilers games the last 2 seasons for fantasy purposes.

RNH isn't a center, like Mantha isn't capable of scoring when he isn't playing with our best players. They're similar players in that respect.

??

 

[Heaton]

Franzen didn't become the player he was until he was ~27 though. Mantha at 25 is more impressive than Franzen was at that age. Whether he can take those next steps remains to be seen. But his year over year improvement has been impressive so that's encouraging. And that's where Mantha takes the edge over RNH for me. RNH is basically what he has always been, his improvement between the year he was drafted and now is miniscule compared to the strides Mantha has taken. RNH was #1 overall, but it seems increasingly clear with every passing year of similar results that he was simply an early bloomer. He's a top 6 C/W, ideally 2nd line, and that's what he is. He was picked first because he was basically already a top 6 C/W when he was drafted, thus it's understandable why teams would think he had a very high ceiling. Mantha is also solidly a top 6 W, but he has shown potential to be more, and has been progressing well to that end. Especially as the talent level around him has improved.

RNH is probably the better player now in all honesty, but it's really not that big a gap (if any). So in terms of evaluating value, other factors become more important as a result. For me, I see Mantha with a greater potential to improve from where he stands now than RNH, and his contract status is also more valuable. RNH is a very good player and I'd love him on the team, but not like this. I have a nagging feeling that if we made this move we'd be regretting it as soon as next season.

I think both players have the opportunity to continue improving in the right situation. Mantha does have the size thing going for him and I do believe this is a crucial year for him to take the next step. He's shown some real ability the last month + of the year and internationally this offseason. I'd like this trade for the Wings, but I'd be surprised if it happened.

 

[lomekian]

Given their contractual situations, RNH is not enough of a step up from Mantha at this point in time, let alone if Mantha continues his improvement of the second half of this season, to make this trade worthwhile for us.

Also, for me, Mantha may be streaky as hell, but when he's on, he's the kind of forward that can win you a playoff series or two - he goes on little runs where it all comes together and he's almost unstoppable. Of course, this is balanced with invisibility, but if his linemates are everydayers, it seems to help him, and can cover somewhat for his awol games. Of course, he might not progress, and thus turning down this trade may seem the wrong option in hindsight in this eventuality, but the gap between them is not so great for us to to risk trading away Mantha's future ceiling.

 

[Rockymountainredwing]

What would the wings have to give to get McDavid?

 

[golffuul]

What would the wings have to give to get McDavid?

Wait until McDavid goes UFA? Otherwise, no chance.

 

[The Zermanator]

What would the wings have to give to get McDavid?

Their firstborn son.

 

[Bench]

Their firstborn son.

Winged wheel. Spinning wheel. Wheel turns items to gold? Gold. Gold in Stanley Cup rings. Hockey Canada gold medals.

Ken Holland is Rumpelstiltskin.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Winged wheel. Spinning wheel. Wheel turns items to gold? Gold. Gold in Stanley Cup rings. Hockey Canada gold medals.

Ken Holland is Rumpelstiltskin.

The month and change summer blues is my first thought about this post. I get here every year when the World Championships end and I no longer have a rooting interest in a hockey game for the summer. On the positive side I can now binge watch a ton of stuff online that I have been putting off because of hockey season. Outside of the draft and watching the finals but without much at stake in terms of rooting, I hit weird spot about now. Not above weird, but probably not in a way I would like to actually look outside of myself and see...

 

[Claypool]

Nobody would and that number will never happen.

Skinner just signed for $9 million per season. Still don't think RNH would get $9 million as a UFA?

 

[RRhoads]

Skinner just signed for $9 million per season. Still don't think RNH would get $9 million as a UFA?

He's way overpaid. I know he just scored 40 goals, but he's been pretty inconsistent. His 63 points matched his rookie season. I wonder how he will perform under the pressure of such a high salary.


Averaging 0,67 points per game over 9 seasons. His teams has never made the playoffs. This contract is terrible.

 

[RedMenace]

I'd much rather take a running, flying leap at Duchene this off-season... that would make the 1-2 center position really solid for the foreseeable future.

 

[RRhoads]

I think Veleno will become that #2 center, or even the #1. He was great last year in the pre season. I will not be surprised if he makes the jump to the NHL next season.

 

[RedMenace]

I think Veleno will become that #2 center, or even the #1. He was great last year in the pre season. I will not be surprised if he makes the jump to the NHL next season.

It would be nice, but unless he blows doors off in camp, he'll start in GR (can he do that? Stupid Junior rules)... I could see him doing spot duty as a 3rd line center, especially if SFY finds a way to jettison Nielsen.

 

[Hen Kolland]

It would be nice, but unless he blows doors off in camp, he'll start in GR (can he do that? Stupid Junior rules)... I could see him doing spot duty as a 3rd line center, especially if SFY finds a way to jettison Nielsen.

He is eligible for GR.

I think we probably have one spot for a kid to win, and it will be a competition between Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen and Svechnikov.

 

[RedMenace]

He is eligible for GR.

I think we probably have one spot for a kid to win, and it will be a competition between Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen and Svechnikov.

Thanks for the verification... after the Rasmussen thing last year, I just know anymore.

Between the four, and again, unless Veleno blows doors off, I think it's going to be between Zod and Svech. Rasmussen is eligible for GR this year, and should probably start there.

 

[Henkka]

Rasmussen is eligible for GR this year, and should probably start there.

It did work quite well for Lawson Crouse to have his 2nd season almost totally in AHL.

1st season (NHL), 72 games, 5+7=12 points
2nd season (NHL), 11 games, 1+0=1 point
2nd season (AHL), 56 games, 15+17=32 points, (9 playoff games, 2+6=8 points)
3rd season (NHL), 81 games, 11+14=25 points (PK role, no PP time)

Rasmussen is 2 years younger and at exactly same career point after his 1st NHL season.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

It did work quite well for Lawson Crouse to have his 2nd season almost totally in AHL.

1st season (NHL), 72 games, 5+7=12 points
2nd season (NHL), 11 games, 1+0=1 point
2nd season (AHL), 56 games, 15+17=32 points, (9 playoff games, 2+6=8 points)
3rd season (NHL), 81 games, 11+14=25 points (PK role, no PP time)

Rasmussen is 2 years younger and at exactly same career point

God, if Rasmussen winds up like Crouse, that’ll only reinforce what a dud of a pick that was.

 

[Winger98]

He is eligible for GR.

I think we probably have one spot for a kid to win, and it will be a competition between Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen and Svechnikov.

I'd be surprised if Svech makes it considering he just lost a whole year to injury. I still wouldn't be surprised to see all four start the year in GR to build confidence and gets reps playing big minutes. Rasmussen being the first or second line center wouldn't be the worst thing. As injuries and/or trades happen, room in Detroit would open up throughout the season allowing guys to be called up. If anyone starts in Detroit, I'm expecting it to be Zadina.

 

[Athana see you later]

I'd be surprised if Svech makes it considering he just lost a whole year to injury. I still wouldn't be surprised to see all four start the year in GR to build confidence and gets reps playing big minutes. Rasmussen being the first or second line center wouldn't be the worst thing. As injuries and/or trades happen, room in Detroit would open up throughout the season allowing guys to be called up. If anyone starts in Detroit, I'm expecting it to be Zadina.

Think there are two spots. Vanek is gone and Ras will have to earn his.

If Veleno has a camp like he did last year, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in Detroit to start

 

[Ishad]

Not sure if it’s better for Veleno to be playing wing in the nhl vs center in the AHL. I assume we are riding out AA at center all next year l.

 

[newfy]

Skinner just signed for $9 million per season. Still don't think RNH would get $9 million as a UFA?

Skinner has quietly been a top 4 even strength goal scorer the last 3 seasons. But ya RNH wont get that contract, the Sabres were just desperate to keep some talent for Eichel to play with.

I'd be surprised if Svech makes it considering he just lost a whole year to injury. I still wouldn't be surprised to see all four start the year in GR to build confidence and gets reps playing big minutes. Rasmussen being the first or second line center wouldn't be the worst thing. As injuries and/or trades happen, room in Detroit would open up throughout the season allowing guys to be called up. If anyone starts in Detroit, I'm expecting it to be Zadina.

I thought it would be Svech's to lose but then he got that exemption for his waiver eligibility and I could see any of them making it to be honest. If Svech has a strong camp he could still make it though. I also wouldnt be surprised to see Zadina make it though after the season he had

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Not sure if it’s better for Veleno to be playing wing in the nhl vs center in the AHL. I assume we are riding out AA at center all next year l.

AHL centre

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Rasmussen held a position with the Wings all year last year. I agree that he should have to earn it again, but realistically, Rasmussen should be counted as a lock who only makes it if he crazy disappoints or someone else crazy crazy impresses.