Management Thread - The Beat Goes On

[ProstheticConscience]

Iain McIntyre is as close to an official spokesman for the team as Pravda was to the Soviet Union or FOX news is to Trump. Anyone pretending otherwise is either deluding themselves or trying to gaslight us.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Honestly, Benning slightly liking Glass over Pettersson doesn't really change my opinion of him. He's an above average to good at drafting, but below average to incompetent in every other area. It's just frustrating that Benning Bro's write off Linden's quote and other media as speculation, because it goes against the narrative that Benning is some super-scout.

 

[sting101]

I see Pettersson in the Aho/Draisaitl 8.5 to Pastrnak/Laine 6.6 range on a bridge deal. Barzal's deal should be an indicator as well.
8 million would be a smart allocation....hope for less but we'll see how his play proceeds

Hughes is highly volatile at this stage. He hasn't taken a lead role outside of the PP and had other teams gunning for him too much yet. Lets see how he handles more responsibility and attention before getting too locked into numbers. How he plays 5v5 defense will be of utmost importance before giving an absurd payday. Werenski and Rielly are 5 million per

 

[rypper]

Man that Aho deal is crazy. Only 3.65m of it is actual salary, the 38.6m of it is signing bonuses.

Aho was paid 11.3m before even touching the ice in one game this season. I can see what Montreal was attempting to do with their offer sheet.

 

[datboichoi]

If players like Eichel Matthews Marner garnered absurd cap hits on long terms deals, there’s no reason why Elias Pettersson shouldn’t. Pettersson in his draft + 2 season is ahead of all those guys. Why on earth should Pettersson take a bridge deal when all the players around him are getting paid? It’s not his fault his GM throws money away to junk like a drunk sailor.

 

[xtra]

Ottawa would be insane not to take that deal. Something like Loui+Jake for one of Ottawa's 4 second rounders would be an incredible deal for them.

I'm hoping we can turn Jake into an RFA dman tho.

Not a chance in hell; you clearly over rate our players.

right now Jake is probably worth a second to Ottawa.

what you are basically asking Is for them to take eriksson for free.

 

[Fatass]

If players like Eichel Matthews Marner garnered absurd cap hits on long terms deals, there’s no reason why Elias Pettersson shouldn’t. Pettersson in his draft + 2 season is ahead of all those guys. Why on earth should Pettersson take a bridge deal when all the players around him are getting paid? It’s not his fault his GM throws money away to junk like a drunk sailor.

The Covid cap is stagnant, so those hedge funded contracts you mentioned aren’t going to happen now. Only way it happens is if a team writes an offer that the Canucks are forced to match. Otherwise Petey signs a bridge.

 

[VanillaCoke]

If players like Eichel Matthews Marner garnered absurd cap hits on long terms deals, there’s no reason why Elias Pettersson shouldn’t. Pettersson in his draft + 2 season is ahead of all those guys. Why on earth should Pettersson take a bridge deal when all the players around him are getting paid? It’s not his fault his GM throws money away to junk like a drunk sailor.

Agree. Just unknown how flat cap affects top tier ufa deals. Id sign pettersson to 8x10m right now, but the circumstances may 'force' some bridge deals until the cap is set to go up... who knows until this offseason atleast.

 

[F A N]

Honestly, Benning slightly liking Glass over Pettersson doesn't really change my opinion of him. He's an above average to good at drafting, but below average to incompetent in every other area. It's just frustrating that Benning Bro's write off Linden's quote and other media as speculation, because it goes against the narrative that Benning is some super-scout.

The term "super scout" has really only been used by Benning [insert opposite of brothers] (TS will stomp me if I say it since TS assumes everyone here is male?).

Anyhow, what's frustrating is the constant labeling and attacks and refusal to look in the mirror when criticizing others. This is a discussion board and people just want to silence others. If you see someone beating a dead horse you don't have to join in.

The same people who criticized Benning for not wanting dissenting opinion, not caring about analytics, and not delegating in the early years also pass along the narrative that Linden vetoed Benning and when Linden wasn't there the scouts have to fight him. But the reality is that the Benning has delegated, he has beefed up the analytics department, and reportedly went with Brackett's/scouts recommendations on the first pick every time except in 2016.

You can dislike Benning and think he's an incompetent GM and still admit that he has delegated duties and listened to his scouts. If you think there should be healthy discussion then you should want our scouts fighting for "their guy." The 1st pick is extremely important. Do I want my team's GM to simply tell his scouts "okay let me know what you guys come up with." No. I want my team's GM to be involved in the discussions and also evaluate the process and individual scouts' performance. Benning was hired based on his drafting pedigree. He came in and quickly promoted Brackett to head his scouting department. I think most of us here agree that that was an astute move.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

A big reason Benning was hired was to revamp the scouting department in order to address past failures....Obviously, he has to take the heat for some signings and trades..but his ability to assemble a scouting department is undeniable..

Furthermore, the scouting department is there to advise the GM,..not 'dictate' to him.

 

[bossram]

If players like Eichel Matthews Marner garnered absurd cap hits on long terms deals, there’s no reason why Elias Pettersson shouldn’t. Pettersson in his draft + 2 season is ahead of all those guys. Why on earth should Pettersson take a bridge deal when all the players around him are getting paid? It’s not his fault his GM throws money away to junk like a drunk sailor.

Agreed. Getting the Eichel deal would be a massive win. But there's no reason he shouldn't hold out and try to sign a Matthews-esque contract.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

The term "super scout" has really only been used by Benning [insert opposite of brothers] (TS will stomp me if I say it since TS assumes everyone here is male?).

Anyhow, what's frustrating is the constant labeling and attacks and refusal to look in the mirror when criticizing others. This is a discussion board and people just want to silence others. If you see someone beating a dead horse you don't have to join in.

The same people who criticized Benning for not wanting dissenting opinion, not caring about analytics, and not delegating in the early years also pass along the narrative that Linden vetoed Benning and when Linden wasn't there the scouts have to fight him. But the reality is that the Benning has delegated, he has beefed up the analytics department, and reportedly went with Brackett's/scouts recommendations on the first pick every time except in 2016.

You can dislike Benning and think he's an incompetent GM and still admit that he has delegated duties and listened to his scouts. If you think there should be healthy discussion then you should want our scouts fighting for "their guy." The 1st pick is extremely important. Do I want my team's GM to simply tell his scouts "okay let me know what you guys come up with." No. I want my team's GM to be involved in the discussions and also evaluate the process and individual scouts' performance. Benning was hired based on his drafting pedigree. He came in and quickly promoted Brackett to head his scouting department. I think most of us here agree that that was an astute move.

Linden vetoing Benning on the Pettersson isn't a narrative, it's what happened.

The GM should not be making the decision whom to draft. He should be involved in the process, but he should not overrule the scouts when they have seen more games. If you can't trust your DOS to make the correct decisions then fire him.

Promoting Brackett was a good decision. No one would argue that. Limiting Brackett's role, and letting him leave was not.

 

[rypper]

Falling in love with a player's WJC play is what led to drafting Juolevi. Falling in love with a players WJC play is what almost led to drafting Broberg until Edmonton took him 2 picks ahead of us.

Scouts watch players multiple times a year, GMs cannot. GMs should listen to their scouts.

 

[Kryten]

A big reason Benning was hired was to revamp the scouting department in order to address past failures....Obviously, he has to take the heat for some signings and trades..but his ability to assemble a scouting department is undeniable..

Furthermore, the scouting department is there to advise the GM,..not 'dictate' to him.

Maybe he should’ve been hired as the head Director of Scouting or even a AGM, he’s proven to be a very shitty actual GM

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Linden vetoing Benning on the Pettersson isn't a narrative, it's what happened.

The GM should not be making the decision whom to draft. He should be involved in the process, but he should not overrule the scouts when they have seen more games. If you can't trust your DOS to make the correct decisions then fire him.

Promoting Brackett was a good decision. No one would argue that. Limiting Brackett's role, and letting him leave was not.

Were you in the room when it happened..?.The 'Linden autonomy' quote has been around for years , and is from Botchfords interview with Linden in May 2018'

"The “they fought hard” part of Linden’s quote resonates in Vancouver. It’s incredibly revealing in how difficult it was to convince an NHL brass to take Pettersson with the fifth-overall pick even though the organization loved him." Athletic,Botchford...

So , the scouts had to 'convince' upper management..?...hardly sounds like the situation of Linden pulling rank....No mention of 'overrule' drama anywhere...If there was ,I'm sure that Botchford would have been all over it.

As it stands now..The vetoing is a narrative.

When the GM has a scouting history , and also revamped the Canucks scouting system ..He has every right to the executive decision. (of the top picks)..Didnt our GM previous to Benning just 'leave it up to the scouts'?

 

[carrotshirt]

Gordon Ramsay GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

 

[ChilliBilly]

S o why don't the Canucks ship Loui off and retain half of his salary. He's a borderline nHL player right now, and some team can get him for very little. I don't think you have to add JV, something like a 3rd and Lind might do it.

 

[VanillaCoke]

No it would not.

 

[Hit the post]

S o why don't the Canucks ship Loui off and retain half of his salary. He's a borderline nHL player right now, and some team can get him for very little. I don't think you have to add JV, something like a 3rd and Lind might do it.

Not that hard to sign a nothing special 4th line winger for far less than a $3 million cap hit. And at his age, his meh performance will only get worse.

Well, except for a GM like Benning.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Were you in the room when it happened..?.The 'Linden autonomy' quote has been around for years , and is from Botchfords interview with Linden in May 2018'

"The “they fought hard” part of Linden’s quote resonates in Vancouver. It’s incredibly revealing in how difficult it was to convince an NHL brass to take Pettersson with the fifth-overall pick even though the organization loved him." Athletic,Botchford...

So , the scouts had to 'convince' upper management..?...hardly sounds like the situation of Linden pulling rank....No mention of 'overrule' drama anywhere...If there was ,I'm sure that Botchford would have been all over it.

As it stands now..Its a narrative....

When the GM has a scouting history , and also revamped the Canucks scouting system ..He has every right to the executive decision. (of the top picks)..Didnt our GM previous to Benning just 'leave it up to the scouts'?

I wasn't in the room, but Linden was.

The Linden quote is from earlier this year when Linden was on Sportsnet 650. Where he said he had to give autonomy to the scouts to make the Pettersson pick.

Jarmo Kekalainen also has a scouting history

NHL Draft: 1-on-1 with Jarmo Kekalainen

He says you have to believe in them and support them in their decision-making process.Guide them and mentor them, not make the picks for them.

And nice straw man. How did the pick where Benning went against the scouts turn out?

 

[Hit the post]

I wasn't in the room, but Linden was.

I was in the room (hiding under the desk ala George Constanza) & can verify this.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I wasn't in the room, but Linden was.

The Linden quote is from earlier this year when Linden was on Sportsnet 650. Where he said he had to give autonomy to the scouts to make the Pettersson pick.

Jarmo Kekalainen also has a scouting history

NHL Draft: 1-on-1 with Jarmo Kekalainen

He says you have to believe in them and support them in their decision-making process.Guide them and mentor them, not make the picks for them.

And nice straw man. How did the pick where Benning went against the scouts turn out?

Don't usually quote myself, but:

Benning really wanted to draft Pettersson...so Linden intervened in order for Benning to draft Pettersson.

Story checks out.

 

[The Poacher]

I was in the room (hiding under the desk ala George Constanza) & can verify this.

Yeah but you were taking a nap, nice try.

 

[Peter10]

stating that there are many avenues available to not be cap crunched isn't the point?

We have expansion, buy outs, trades, letting UFAs walk and sending guys to Utica that can all create cap space. The point is, there's no point in prematurely freaking out about a cap crunch in 2 seasons when there are so many options yet to be exercised.

Not worrying what might be in 1-2 years, thinking all bad contracts will magically disappear is what the Canucks got into this position in the first place.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I wasn't in the room, but Linden was.

The Linden quote is from earlier this year when Linden was on Sportsnet 650. Where he said he had to give autonomy to the scouts to make the Pettersson pick.

Jarmo Kekalainen also has a scouting history

NHL Draft: 1-on-1 with Jarmo Kekalainen

He says you have to believe in them and support them in their decision-making process.Guide them and mentor them, not make the picks for them.

And nice straw man. How did the pick where Benning went against the scouts turn out?

"A narrative has since emerged that suggests the hockey department was divided on Pettersson. Brackett was in favour of taking the Swede. Benning was leaning toward Glass.
Benning rejects that version of events and while he isn’t exactly expansive on the subject, he said: “(Pettersson) was a unanimous decision.”
The relationship between Brackett and Benning has since been strained. While no one will speak to the matter on the record, Brackett believes he should have some degree of autonomy in running the scouting department. He’s turned down a contract extension from the Canucks. He was also aligned with former president Trevor Linden.
Brackett was not made available by the organization for this piece.
The backroom drama, while intriguing, is also inconsequential."..Ed Willes, Province,2020