Management Thread - The Beat Goes On

[xtra]

You're supposed to trust a guy who's been covering the team for 29 or so years. Perhaps in that time he's built up sources within the organization and is trustworthy.

Jim has definitely shown in the past that he will defer to his scouting team. With juolevi it's an example of tunnel vision. Drafting by position, seeing a player have a good WJC and having that boost his value in his eyes.

Rumors of this rearing it's head at the 2019 draft as well, but he again went with his team's decision.

If someone is arguing that IMac isn’t reliable it’s kinda pointless to discuss with them. Even if I think his (IMac ) player evaluation sucks big time.

Especially if they want reporters to name their source which almost never happens in reporting.

 

[Bob Long]

You're supposed to trust a guy who's been covering the team for 29 or so years. Perhaps in that time he's built up sources within the organization and is trustworthy.

Jim has definitely shown in the past that he will defer to his scouting team. With juolevi it's an example of tunnel vision. Drafting by position, seeing a player have a good WJC and having that boost his value in his eyes.

Rumors of this rearing it's head at the 2019 draft as well, but he again went with his team's decision.

So if true, to me thats a good story. Jim's willing to learn and listen to his team. The Judd story is also one of a good manager imo, Judd began at a very low level and was allowed to grow and mature into a head scout for an NHL team. And yet.... how many people on these boards want to see Benning fired over how he "handled" Judd?

The professional speculators out there in the media need a black hat / white hat narrative to sell stories (which isn't iMac imo). Sometimes good people move on from organizations, but thats not much of a click bait story.

 

[xtra]

If you were another team and someone offered us Jake as the sweetener to take loui on who would do that without expecting a bad contract coming back our way.

Jake would be a starting point imo espically now with the cap being flat for a couple years.

 

[F A N]

I dont think Provorov is a good example, his point production is far worse than Hughes although he is better in other areas of the game. Chabot scored at a similar rate in his second season and the contract he got is 8m/y. His rookie season was less impressive than Hughes. Anything below 8m for Hughes would be a huge surprise unless of course he takes a short term deal of 2 or 3 years.

Personally, I consider Provorov to be the best young Dman of the bunch who signed extensions last summer, but you may be right that Chabot is the precedent set. With that said, if I am not mistaken, if Hughes signs an 8 year extension, Chabot's contract would also buy more UFA years in comparison. That is balanced by the fact that I think Hughes is better than Chabot.

 

[Hit the post]

If you were another team and someone offered us Jake as the sweetener to take loui on who would do that without expecting a bad contract coming back our way.

Jake would be a starting point imo espically now with the cap being flat for a couple years.

Would you offer a 1st round pick for Jake? I wouldn't (unless I'm already a playoff team). Think that's what'll take at a minimum to unload LE.

 

[Bob Long]

Thats not quite correct. 21-22 is a huge issue. While there are 40m in cap space, there is half a roster to fill. Here just a quick roster I did on capfriendly


FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Brock Boeser ($5,875,000) - Jake Virtanen ($2,800,000) - Tyler Motte ($1,500,000) - Zack MacEwen ($1,000,000)
Centre: Elias Pettersson ($8,500,000) - Bo Horvat ($5,500,000) - Adam Gaudette ($1,500,000) - Jay Beagle ($3,000,000)
Left wing: J.T. Miller ($5,250,000) - Loui Eriksson ($6,000,000) - Micheal Ferland ($3,500,000) - Antoine Roussel ($3,000,000) - Nils Höglander ($891,667)
DEFENSE (7)
Right: Tyler Myers ($6,000,000) - Jalen Chatfield ($800,000) - Jett Woo ($891,666)
Left: Quinn Hughes ($8,500,000) - Brogan Rafferty ($1,000,000) - Olli Juolevi ($1,000,000) - Oscar Fantenberg ($1,500,000)
GOALTENDER (2)
Thatcher Demko ($2,000,000) - Jacob Markström ($6,000,000)
DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $79,041,539
Cap Space: $2,458,461
- deferred Bonus (EP,QH): $1,700,000

Cap Space: $758,461

That team is terrible in particular on defence and its not like I have calculated with big extensions, actually I think Hughes and Pettersson might get more.

true that team is a step back, but I just don't see how thats the lineup in 21/22. I do think you'll see Podkolzin in there as well. You can bury Loui in Utica and bring in Podz, yes thats a wash cash wise but its a player upgrade.

I don't see both Demko and Marky here at that point, one will be gone for sure.

I also think Jakes days are numbered and we'll see a trade for a dman there.

Then there's expansion, we'll be losing salary there as well.

There's a lot of moving pieces between now and whatever they ice in 21/22.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Well I actually think he is getting Marner like money, also Hughes might be in for 9m. Just wanted to show how tight 2021 already is after someone claimed it will be far more relaxed than next season.

Yup. It doesn't get better the next year either. 21m more in cap space, but Boeser has to be signed and Hughes and Myers would be the only defencemen with a contract.

 

[Bob Long]

I guess everyone is going to continue ignoring that Linden admitted it himself.



8.5 is low for Pettersson. That is what Aho got on a 5 year deal. Pettersson is going to be 9.5 at minimum, unless he takes a bridge deal.

no one's ignoring anything. If Benning wasn't a team player like Linden preferred, he would have been fired. There's also a little bit of glossing over Lindens tenure here sometimes, I get it, I loved him as a player and person, but he wasn't a good executive on many fronts. He did have the right idea on how to treat staff tho.

 

[Fatass]

Well I actually think he is getting Marner like money, also Hughes might be in for 9m. Just wanted to show how tight 2021 already is after someone claimed it will be far more relaxed than next season.

Both Hughes and Petey will sign bridge deals. 5 x 3 years for Hughes and 6 x 3 years for Petey.
Hedge funded deals, like Marner, are a thing of the past, because we know now the cap isn’t going up to cover them.

 

[Peter10]

true that team is a step back, but I just don't see how thats the lineup in 21/22. I do think you'll see Podkolzin in there as well. You can bury Loui in Utica and bring in Podz, yes thats a wash cash wise but its a player upgrade.

I don't see both Demko and Marky here at that point, one will be gone for sure.

I also think Jakes days are numbered and we'll see a trade for a dman there.

Then there's expansion, we'll be losing salary there as well.

There's a lot of moving pieces between now and whatever they ice in 21/22.

Thats not the point. You said there wont be cap crunch for 21-22 when Pettersson and Hughes need a new contract. All I did was trying to make a roster out of that 40m cap space to show that while it looks a lot, it actually will evaporate quickly with the number of players that need to be signed.

Feel free to post a line up that is ready to compete and still fits under the cap. If I understand you correctly, it shouldnt be much of an issue considering we have all that cap space.

 

[Peter10]

Both Hughes and Petey will sign bridge deals. 5 x 3 years for Hughes and 6 x 3 years for Petey.
Hedge funded deals, like Marner, are a thing of the past, because we know now the cap isn’t going up to cover them.

Actually everyone in the league has a good idea now what the cap will look like over the next 4 years. Pretending Hughes and Pettersson will take cheap bridge deals is just a fools hope like having compliance buy-outs.

 

[xtra]

Would you offer a 1st round pick for Jake? I wouldn't (unless I'm already a playoff team). Think that's what'll take at a minimum to unload LE.

I don’t think jake is worth a first at all as I think he’s too streaky. Though Coleman went for a first and Foote at the deadline so idk.

 

[Fatass]

Actually everyone in the league has a good idea now what the cap will look like over the next 4 years. Pretending Hughes and Pettersson will take cheap bridge deals is just a fools hope like having compliance buy-outs.

Pretending that Hughes and Petey will take long term deals for less money (because the cap is flat and hedge funded deals are a thing of a rising cap) is more foolish, because it is choosing to be willfully ignorant of current facts. Facts you even stated yourself, and still choose to ignore.

 

[MS]

I’m more likely to be motorboating Kate Upton this afternoon than Quinn Hughes is to sign for $5 million AAV on his next contract.

 

[timw33]

I don’t think jake is worth a first at all as I think he’s too streaky. Though Coleman went for a first and Foote at the deadline so idk.

Coleman's value to a cap strapped contender was all in the surplus value he generated from his absolute bargain contract with the extra year of term.

Then again, a GM traded a 2nd round pick for Linden Vey (18 NHL GP at that point), maybe we can try and offload him on the GM who made that trade?

 

[Bob Long]

I’m more likely to be motorboating Kate Upton this afternoon than Quinn Hughes is to sign for $5 million AAV on his next contract.

god speed man, god speed.

 

[Bob Long]

Thats not the point. You said there wont be cap crunch for 21-22 when Pettersson and Hughes need a new contract. All I did was trying to make a roster out of that 40m cap space to show that while it looks a lot, it actually will evaporate quickly with the number of players that need to be signed.

Feel free to post a line up that is ready to compete and still fits under the cap. If I understand you correctly, it shouldnt be much of an issue considering we have all that cap space.

stating that there are many avenues available to not be cap crunched isn't the point?

We have expansion, buy outs, trades, letting UFAs walk and sending guys to Utica that can all create cap space. The point is, there's no point in prematurely freaking out about a cap crunch in 2 seasons when there are so many options yet to be exercised.

 

[Bob Long]

If you were another team and someone offered us Jake as the sweetener to take loui on who would do that without expecting a bad contract coming back our way.

Jake would be a starting point imo espically now with the cap being flat for a couple years.

Ottawa would be insane not to take that deal. Something like Loui+Jake for one of Ottawa's 4 second rounders would be an incredible deal for them.

I'm hoping we can turn Jake into an RFA dman tho.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Both Hughes and Petey will sign bridge deals. 5 x 3 years for Hughes and 6 x 3 years for Petey.
Hedge funded deals, like Marner, are a thing of the past, because we know now the cap isn’t going up to cover them.

If that’s all they’re offering Petey I can see him getting an offer sheet for a lot more than that. Some team with cap space will offer at least $8M for him.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Ottawa would be insane not to take that deal. Something like Loui+Jake for one of Ottawa's 4 second rounders would be an incredible deal for them.

I'm hoping we can turn Jake into an RFA dman tho.

If I’m Ottawa there’s no way I’m giving away a 2 for that package. If you want to dump Eriksson, pay me. An RFA Jake Virtanen doesn’t hold the kind of value you think he holds.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

no one's ignoring anything. If Benning wasn't a team player like Linden preferred, he would have been fired. There's also a little bit of glossing over Lindens tenure here sometimes, I get it, I loved him as a player and person, but he wasn't a good executive on many fronts. He did have the right idea on how to treat staff tho.

I never want to see Linden working for this organization again. Letting the scouts pick Pettersson was the only positive thing he did as president.

I'm not saying that Benning didn't like Pettersson. He was very high on both Pettersson and Glass. Unless Linden is lying, Benning liked Glass a little bit more than Pettersson and/or he listened way too much to Weisbrod. At the very least, he didn't act like a child on draft day like Weisbrod.

 

[Fatass]

If that’s all they’re offering Petey I can see him getting an offer sheet for a lot more than that. Some team with cap space will offer at least $8M for him.

That’s a good point. Hughes isn’t eligible fir an OS, right?

 

[y2kcanucks]

That’s a good point. Hughes isn’t eligible fir an OS, right?

Correct. So it’s easier to play hardball with him. Though I could still see him asking for closer to $9-10M and probably settle somewhere between $7-8M. I’d be stunned if he signed for only $5M.

 

[rypper]

That’s a good point. Hughes isn’t eligible fir an OS, right?

Hughes is another one of those 10.2c restricted free agents. Where they basically have no rights outside of taking what's offered to them or sitting out.

 

[rypper]

I never want to see Linden working for this organization again. Letting the scouts pick Pettersson was the only positive thing he did as president.

I'm not saying that Benning didn't like Pettersson. He was very high on both Pettersson and Glass. Unless Linden is lying, Benning liked Glass a little bit more than Pettersson and/or he listened way too much to Weisbrod. At the very least, he didn't act like a child on draft day like Weisbrod.

Yeah Linden was terrible here as president, he was condescending to fans, was in way over his head, and made all kinds of awful decisions.

It got to the point where his performance as president tainted my memory of him as a player and team captain.

About the only positive thing he did that we can look back on is the decision to step in and empower the scouts for the 2017 draft.

I don't know what other instances of "glossing over" even exist.