Management Thread - The Beat Goes On

[Peter10]

"A narrative has since emerged that suggests the hockey department was divided on Pettersson. Brackett was in favour of taking the Swede. Benning was leaning toward Glass.
Benning rejects that version of events and while he isn’t exactly expansive on the subject, he said: “(Pettersson) was a unanimous decision.”
The relationship between Brackett and Benning has since been strained. While no one will speak to the matter on the record, Brackett believes he should have some degree of autonomy in running the scouting department. He’s turned down a contract extension from the Canucks. He was also aligned with former president Trevor Linden.
Brackett was not made available by the organization for this piece.
The backroom drama, while intriguing, is also inconsequential."..Ed Willes, Province,2020

Oh it must be true then. Otherwise Benning would have said "I wanted Glass but Linden forced me to pick Pettersson" three years and a Calder for Pettersson later.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Further info on Linden during his time as Prez.....

"That was a hint things were different, because in the years after Linden was hired he became increasingly involved in day-to-day hockey operations.
In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions. There were times when people in the organization would say “Linden is running this team.” At the time, it came as a surprise for some, who thought Linden was originally hired to be more of a figurehead."...Botchford,Province, 2018

Maybe it wasn't Benning calling the shots?

 

[sting101]

Agreed. Getting the Eichel deal would be a massive win. But there's no reason he shouldn't hold out and try to sign a Matthews-esque contract.

Pettersson is nowhere near as dominant as Eichel and Matthews at this stage. He doesn't have the same ability to physically take over a game.
Stats are a huge part of the equation but not all of it. He is in the same tier as Aho and Barzal at this point

 

[Phenomenon13]

Sportsnet first reported the reaming out of the scouts by Benning, then it was Patrick Johnson of the Province who said it was the scouting team that wanted Pastrnak.

1040 is not even a part of this aside from maybe ancillary reporting.

Wtf can I get a source for this?

 

[Bleach Clean]

"A narrative has since emerged that suggests the hockey department was divided on Pettersson. Brackett was in favour of taking the Swede. Benning was leaning toward Glass.
Benning rejects that version of events and while he isn’t exactly expansive on the subject, he said: “(Pettersson) was a unanimous decision.”
The relationship between Brackett and Benning has since been strained. While no one will speak to the matter on the record, Brackett believes he should have some degree of autonomy in running the scouting department. He’s turned down a contract extension from the Canucks. He was also aligned with former president Trevor Linden.
Brackett was not made available by the organization for this piece.
The backroom drama, while intriguing, is also inconsequential."..Ed Willes, Province,2020

Benning rejects that version of events...

Meanwhile, the head scout is walking and he picked every 1st rounder aside from Juolevi. Hmmm.

I wonder if Benning is lying? Possible? I mean, I’m still waiting for the team to make the playoffs, or be “elite”, like he said they would be. You know, because he’s truthful and honest.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

"A narrative has since emerged that suggests the hockey department was divided on Pettersson. Brackett was in favour of taking the Swede. Benning was leaning toward Glass.
Benning rejects that version of events and while he isn’t exactly expansive on the subject, he said: “(Pettersson) was a unanimous decision.”
The relationship between Brackett and Benning has since been strained. While no one will speak to the matter on the record, Brackett believes he should have some degree of autonomy in running the scouting department. He’s turned down a contract extension from the Canucks. He was also aligned with former president Trevor Linden.
Brackett was not made available by the organization for this piece.
The backroom drama, while intriguing, is also inconsequential."..Ed Willes, Province,2020

Benning isn't being 100% truthful here.The pick wasn't unanimous. At the very least John Weisbrod was against the pick, as he threw a tantrum on draft day and wouldn't go up on the stage.

The team president outside said that it was important for him to give the autonomy to draft Pettersson. That's not speculation, that's coming right from the Horse's mouth. Either Linden or Benning is lying here. I would of been more willing to believe it was Linden if Benning is at least honest that this wasn't a unanimous decision.

 

[rypper]

Wtf can I get a source for this?

Patrick Johnson was a guest on the most recent Area 51 podcast. Episode 28. (It's canucks based.)

 

[xtra]

Pettersson is nowhere near as dominant as Eichel and Matthews at this stage. He doesn't have the same ability to physically take over a game.
Stats are a huge part of the equation but not all of it. He is in the same tier as Aho and Barzal at this point

As you said stats aren’t all of it and while true about his physicality; there’s also the fact that petersson has all the leverage here. He’s the face of the franchise; the teams engine and a huge bright spot on the team that has a lot of empty spots in it.

he’s gonna get that marner money.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Benning isn't being 100% truthful here.The pick wasn't unanimous. At the very least John Weisbrod was against the pick, as he threw a tantrum on draft day and wouldn't go up on the stage.

The team president outside said that it was important for him to give the autonomy to draft Pettersson. That's not speculation, that's coming right from the Horse's mouth. Either Linden or Benning is lying here. I would of been more willing to believe it was Linden if Benning is at least honest that this wasn't a unanimous decision.

I think that JB is referencing it to be being 'unanimous' choice after the debate..which was early on..I don't think either Linden or Benning are lying..We just don't know the timeline of events..

Maybe unanimous besides Weisbrod.

All this ' vetoed' and ' overruled' stuff is considered a 'narrative' by the sports media...and by me...

The end result was that we got the right guy...thats all that counts at the end of the day.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Benning isn't being 100% truthful here.The pick wasn't unanimous. At the very least John Weisbrod was against the pick, as he threw a tantrum on draft day and wouldn't go up on the stage.

The team president outside said that it was important for him to give the autonomy to draft Pettersson. That's not speculation, that's coming right from the Horse's mouth. Either Linden or Benning is lying here. I would of been more willing to believe it was Linden if Benning is at least honest that this wasn't a unanimous decision.

In the Brackett thread I had linked 10 reporters intimating that Benning +/- Weisbrod were on one side and Bracket + the scouting staff were on the other. Linden confirms this by saying he had to step in for the Scouts. Yet this is a narrative? Have reading and comprehension skills become that poor?

Why would these media members imply that their own material is narrative, when they have sourced their information? Are they trying to hurt their own careers?

Mr. C said it best in the Brackett thread: You don’t need the agreement of the other side to prove your argument true. The agreement is a luxury. The proof and the reasoning of that proof is everything.

I say make your case and then leave it alone Groot. Far better discussion to be had.

 

[Peter10]

Interesting bit from Friedman



Which would slightly help this year but cause more issues next year.

 

[F A N]

Benning isn't being 100% truthful here.The pick wasn't unanimous. At the very least John Weisbrod was against the pick, as he threw a tantrum on draft day and wouldn't go up on the stage.

Lol. Thanks for the conspiracy theory.

Did Delorme and Gradin (the two guys besides Brackett who reportedly pushed for Petey) throw a tantrum on draft day and wouldn't go up on the stage as well? The guys on stage were Benning, Brackett, Green, a kid (Brackett's?) and Aquilini family. In all other drafts, Delorme, Gradin, and Weisbrod would be on stage.

 

[datboichoi]

Pettersson is nowhere near as dominant as Eichel and Matthews at this stage. He doesn't have the same ability to physically take over a game.
Stats are a huge part of the equation but not all of it. He is in the same tier as Aho and Barzal at this point

It’s okay if you don’t understand hockey, what an absolutely stoic and f***ing terrible opinion. Pettersson is a two-way monster. He just had a season far better than Eichel or Matthews draft + 2 years.

 

[F A N]

Linden vetoing Benning on the Pettersson isn't a narrative, it's what happened.

The GM should not be making the decision whom to draft. He should be involved in the process, but he should not overrule the scouts when they have seen more games. If you can't trust your DOS to make the correct decisions then fire him.

Promoting Brackett was a good decision. No one would argue that. Limiting Brackett's role, and letting him leave was not.

Again, where is the exact quote from Linden that he vetoed Benning? Even in the most recent draft (without Linden here) Benning ended up following his scouts' recommendations. Linden stepping in and giving his opinion or even order as to who to draft is not the same as "vetoing". People forget that Linden was Benning's boss and has a voice (final voice if he wants to) in the room. I can use your argument and say that if he didn't trust his GM to make the correct decision he should fire him rather than fight for his extension.

Also, the Director of Amateur Scouting doesn't make decisions on who to draft. He's more of a facilitator. Otherwise the same discussions come up. If say Bracket had a different opinion than most of the scouts then what? Is Brackett allowed to "overrule" his scouts?

It's a misnomer to use terms like "veto" and "overrule." If I'm the President of Hockey Operations and have final say then I don't need to overrule or veto anybody. Everyone below me should present their views and I make the decisions. Similarly, if I was the GM, I don't need to overrule or veto my scouting staff. They are suppose to do their jobs and give me their list but they are suggestions or proposals.

A lot of people here simply don't realize how different a team's NHL draft list can differ from all those "draft rankings" that are available online. They also don't realize that scouts can have different opinions about a player and still come to a "consensus" on who should be higher on the list. The reason is that at the end of the day the draft list needs to be put together. It's a group project with a deadline to submit your paper. Say a scout likes Bouchard over Hughes because he thinks Bouchard is a sure fire top 4 Dman while Hughes may not be able to defend at the NHL level. At the same time, say this scout agrees that Hughes has the highest upside. At the end of the day, the scout that preferred Bouchard may be on board with having Hughes higher on the list. A "consensus" would then be declared because that scout who preferred Bouchard was fine with ranking Hughes ahead.

Despite what some posters here would tell you, "groupings" exist and is incredibly relevant. If 10 out of 10 scouts preferred Glass over Petey based on size alone and so the preference was based on the slimmest of margins and none of the 10 scouts have a problem with Petey over Glass, is the "consensus" ranking really relevant if you're the GM and think the two players' size difference doesn't matter? Some posters here would like to convince you that there is a consensus and that's all that matters but as you can see it's pretty stupid as the preference can be based on certain traits that you don't consider that relevant.

Credit to the Canucks' scouting staff and Benning in 2017. They were absolutely bang on with that first round selection. Even Makar (had he been available) would have been an excellent pick.

 

[VanillaCoke]

It’s okay if you don’t understand hockey, what an absolutely stoic and f***ing terrible opinion. Pettersson is a two-way monster. He just had a season far better than Eichel or Matthews draft + 2 years.

I wouldn't go that far, but could see the argument for slightly better if viewed from the 2 way perspective.

 

[datboichoi]

I wouldn't go that far, but could see the argument for slightly better if viewed from the 2 way perspective.

Pettersson was 2nd and 3rd in the league in WAR and GAR, he had an absolutely sensational season.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Wtf can I get a source for this?

In addition to the source which was provided, here is the Coles notes version.

Brackett and the rest of the scouts were pushing hard for the Canucks to draft Pastrnak in 2014, however Benning overruled them and wanted someone else despite being involved in the Bruins draft list that year. In addition, the scouts really wanted Larkin. So the worst drafting team in the NHL for the 6 years previous to this draft would’ve landed 2 of the best players in that draft with the 6th and 24th pick. 18 months later Benning then reams out his scouts for not picking Pastrnak, in other words reams them out for allowing him to overrule them / for them not overruling himself. Benning later trades McCann as he’s not “Benning’s guy”…despite overruling the scouts to draft him but then later reaming the scouts out for not overruling himself. Seems legit.

 

[BB06]

Pettersson is nowhere near as dominant as Eichel and Matthews at this stage. He doesn't have the same ability to physically take over a game.
Stats are a huge part of the equation but not all of it. He is in the same tier as Aho and Barzal at this point

Not sure what you mean physically(Pettersson has more hits this season than Matthews)? EP's stats are basically identical to Eichel and Matthews. I also think that Matthews got overpaid for what he had contributed at the time of his contract (Career high 69 points, 2 straight season with health issues etc) I think Pettersson is around the 9M ranger and 10M if it's long term with a Similar contract to Eichel. He also has next season to increase his value so I'd get a deal done as soon as this off-season.

 

[Peter10]

I find it rather comical when "franchise players" like Pettersson and Hughes are suddenly not dominant or quite ready yet as soon as there is discussion about their next contract. And no this is not specifically meant for sting101 but rather a general feeling I get from certain posters here.