Management Thread | Regular Season Edition
- Thread starter theguardianII
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Pastor Of Muppetz
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- Oct 1, 2017
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RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
I'll take this a step further and add the only real saving grace Benning & his side kick Weisbrod had were their strong ties/preference to US college hockey. I'd bet if you tell the potato to just draft college players and it will probably do even better, especially when they take care of player development for you.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Pretty much every GM that takes over from his predecessor is faced with cap, asset , low morale problems.
When you've inherited 5 elite players, ..two of them franchise players in their early 20's..It definitely takes the sting out of a lot of those other GM problems.
When you've inherited 5 elite players, ..two of them franchise players in their early 20's..It definitely takes the sting out of a lot of those other GM problems.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
In Metallica's defense, I *think* you can point fingers mainly at producer Bob Rock for that "sound".
Definitely not. But I don't think it was some sort of weird out-of-the-box thing and most of this fanbase felt the same way.
When his play improved, I changed my viewpoint.
But he isn't out 3rd-best defender, or anything close.
Nah, Lars said in an interview he forgot to turn the snare wires on one day and liked it lmfao. What a weiner.
It wasn't outlandish at all the guy consistently wandered for hits outside the blue line, he couldn't turn and by the time he realized he needed to turn the play was by him, and he would consistently pass into a bad area.
And something else i havent seen posted regarding coaching - they have eliminated mostly the myers calling card of a medium strength ring around the boards mid shin pad height - you know the ones that had an opponent waiting for them - always
Also the limp backhands waist height off the wall on his offside have subsided
But benning got myers so he gets a tip of the cap yeah f*** off.
GranvilleIsland
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Nazzlind
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theguardianII
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Kuzmenko will be missed.
Scoring or not, defensively better or not he had an affect on the ice.
A common perception for opposing teams was expressed by Zadorov with regards to how teams played against Calgary when Looch (Milan Lucic) was on the team. Teams didn't play cheap as much when he was there just because they could get tuned up by him.
Kuzmenko had that affect, not always huge but some, where the opposition had to take into account he is a goal scorer, close to one goal every two games last year and the same as a passer.
No matter where he played he had that earned reputation as a scoring threat regardless of line he played on.
You always hear how scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the NHL and he was a goal scorer.
Sometimes just a threat of a viable goal scorer will alter a team's preparation or assignments.
He is gone and since there has been a let down or less effective top line scoring as other teams can now concentrate of 4 top six players.
Just saying the same thing most posters have been saying about Boeser for 3 years now.
Scoring or not, defensively better or not he had an affect on the ice.
A common perception for opposing teams was expressed by Zadorov with regards to how teams played against Calgary when Looch (Milan Lucic) was on the team. Teams didn't play cheap as much when he was there just because they could get tuned up by him.
Kuzmenko had that affect, not always huge but some, where the opposition had to take into account he is a goal scorer, close to one goal every two games last year and the same as a passer.
No matter where he played he had that earned reputation as a scoring threat regardless of line he played on.
You always hear how scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the NHL and he was a goal scorer.
Sometimes just a threat of a viable goal scorer will alter a team's preparation or assignments.
He is gone and since there has been a let down or less effective top line scoring as other teams can now concentrate of 4 top six players.
Just saying the same thing most posters have been saying about Boeser for 3 years now.
AwesomeInTheory
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Vague insults now..?..
As is typical. Pastor is hoisted by his own petard and shrinks back into non-answers.
And as has been outlined numerous times, it's exceedingly hard for NHL teams to not accrue some amount of talent through the draft.
I am pretty confident in saying that (outside of interim GMs or incredibly short term GMs) there aren't any organizations that went an entire tenure without finding some NHL players. It's exceedingly hard to not come up with an NHL caliber player if you're drafting in the top 10 (although Benning managed to do that...twice!)
The thing that's always glossed over with Benning is that he was touted as some master drafter/developer of talent. Yet he provided very average results. That's without going into the usual discussions/debates that crop up when talking about that (eg, EP.)
The comment I made that started this whole discussion is that he set back the organization by years. Which is true. The Canucks were fumbling for nearly a decade under his leadership and are only now starting to come out of the darkness.
However, as much as I want to just simply enjoy the team, there are still a few issues facing the Canucks. I'm not trying to be doom and gloom, as these are just things the team has to deal with and can affect their future success:
- Dealing with EP. Will he or won't he? And if he doesn't (or if the team elects not to) who do they pursue?
- Sorting out the D. Hughes is the only defenseman signed longterm.
- Sorting out UFAs in general.
- Dealing with the regression. Folks crowing about the team being 'elite' are ignoring that there is likely to be a regression coming for the Canucks. As much as I like laughing at the Oilers fans seething over it, guys like Bluegar are going to regress.
This has been a fantastic season, I am enjoying it, but I want to see what happens after other organizations scout the shit out of us, our role players regress slightly, etc. and if we can continue to keep this momentum rolling into multiple seasons.
There's a lot of similar energy from certain posters that cropped up around the time of the Covid play-in series. Cart before horse. Etc.
Still interested in your response MS. What do you consider to be AGM level or higher besides POHO, GM, and AGMs? Are you including Senior Advisors/Special Advisors?
No need to act like this. You already did the work so it shouldn't be a big deal to flesh out your answer. But thanks for the post.
He's actually AGM.
Greg Cambell is running their AHL team and is AGM.
Minnesota's setup is unusual. Shero is the GM's top executive but he has the Senior Advisor title. Of course there's the drama surrounding their AGM. From Murray's hiring release it sounds like he is part of the front office: "Murray, 40 (10/23/79), will help oversee the day-to-day operations of the Wild’s hockey operations department, assisting with contract negotiations, player development and scouting. He will also support the day-to-day hockey operations efforts for the Iowa Wild of the American Hockey League (AHL)."
He's been AGM of Preds since 2021
He's kind of like Pat Conacher. More affiliated with the AHL team than NHL team. I would count him though.
I'm not sure if he runs the day to day or more of the business side but I'll count him.
So there's about 10? NHL teams who has a non-AGM running their farm team including the Vancouver Canucks? Given the numbers, I don't think my statement that most teams have their AGM running the farm team is wrong or misleading. But i stand corrected in that it's not unusual to have someone other than an AGM run the farm team.
Not seeking qualifiers. When an NHL team owns their farm team there is a business side to the operations that may influence how the team sets up their AHL hockey operations. And I made that in the context of discussing front office/hockey operations size.
I should also point out that it's not as straight forward as simply looking at titles. When Conacher was the Comets' GM, our Comets posters here were under the impression that he was running the day the day in terms of ECHL callups etc. but Henning had oversight and was credited for building out the roster.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Ah shit wtf how did I do this Jesus
What the???.. did you get all the quotes drunk or something
Well it looks better after the game he had on Saturday. He pulled himself out of the play on two goals I believe. I think a quick team exposed him. Might have been a one off given play of late but might be the bubble bursting as well.
‘Senior Advisor’ is a very variable role. Some actually do stuff, some are PR, some live in Florida and are only consulted here and there on major decisions.
If you total the number of people in POHO, GM, AGM positions we were near the bottom of the league.
AwesomeInTheory
A Christmas miracle
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You were the one who got snotty with me in a prior post. If you don't like snark, don't be snarky.
And why is it unreasonable to hold you to the same standard that you hold others? Again, you made claims (unsubstantiated) but I'm the one who is expected to 'show my work.' Since you were the one originally making the claim, one could infer you 'did the work' as well (because how else would you arrive at that conclusion? Pulling it out of thin air? Nah, couldn't be.)
Yep. My bad on that.
Nope.
Gregory Campbell | Florida Panthers | Florida Panthers
Gregory Campbell was named Assistant General Manager in September 2023 after serving as the Vice President of Player Personnel & Development for the Florida Panthers and the General Manager of the Charlotte Checkers for three seasons.
www.nhl.com
He was listed as GM in 2022 but is absent from their current page.
More qualifiers.
Yep. My bad on that.
Your approval means so much.
This is what I was taking issue with and why asking you to explain yourself (quid pro quo, Clarice) came up. If there was like 3 teams that were doing this, yeah, I'd say it's 'unusual.' But since someone else 'did the work' and challenged your claim, you get to pooh-pooh them while chastising people to 'not act like this.'
Skeptical of this. I have a feeling you were going to bring up teams like the Chicago Wolves or Hershey Bears (teams which have a bit of an independence streak to them compared to other orgs) and shied away.
Then why would you originally make a statement about how it's 'unusual' that a job title isn't running an AHL club and place emphasis on the role/title?
Yes, it's rarely clear cut and there are a lot of moving parts, particularly with organizations that aren't cut to the bone.
And unrelated, but holding up the Sedins as example of a 'big' front office staff is kinda comical given that they joined the organization roughly 5 months before Benning was sacked.
AwesomeInTheory
A Christmas miracle
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To add onto this,
The additional issue is that a lot of folks in the Canucks org under Benning's watch were doing double duty.
Gear was team counsel and an AGM. What was he doing?
Weisbrod was an AGM and, outside of going on scouting trips and having beers with Todd Harvey, what he doing? (Recall the old quote "I've talked to many people in the NHL and none of them know what exactly Weisbrod does.")
The team was lacking a POHO role for years after Linden left.
The team was lacking leadership in the amateur scouting department.
If the team was doing well and operating efficiently, there'd be less cause for concern. But given the Canucks were fined, needed to get help from the NHL Front Office with paperwork, their cap structure was 82 kinds of f***ed up, etc.
Relax.
Huh? This is a discussion board. You already did the work. I'm not holding you to any kind of standard here.
Yep. My bad on that.
Nope.
Gregory Campbell | Florida Panthers | Florida Panthers
Gregory Campbell was named Assistant General Manager in September 2023 after serving as the Vice President of Player Personnel & Development for the Florida Panthers and the General Manager of the Charlotte Checkers for three seasons.
He was listed as GM in 2022 but is absent from their current page.
Nope what? You included him on your list. So are you saying he's no longer running the farm team or that he's not an AGM?
It's a discussion board. Providing points of discussion and adding context isn't qualifiers.
So you keep making mistakes and you get all pissy at me for asking you which teams you are including?
Great to here but I think you're missing the point.
Huh? I was under the impression that it was rare and you pointed out that it isn't that rare. What is your problem?
Huh? But you're the one who are bringing up Chicago Wolves and Hershey Bears.
You should discuss this with MS.
I don't see how the Canucks' setup was somehow alarmingly barebones compared to the rest of the league. We were actually one of the first teams to have a POHO. Obviously, they were missing a POHO after Linden left and until Rutherford took the role.
Again, the Canucks didn't end up replacing the POHO, but they had 1 GM with 2 AGMs, which isn't barebones. There is a huge diference between having 4 vs the 5-6 you are suggesting that other teams have.
Colorado has a POHO, GM, and one AGM. They won the Cup with a POHO/GM and one AGM (so 2 guys) Previously Sakic held both the POHO/GM role and had one AGM.
Tampa expanded to three AGMs in 2019-2020 after Yzerman left?
Vegas started off with a GM and AGM and changed to POHO and GM in 2019-2020. If I'm not mistaken, that was the setup they won with last year?
St. Louis has one POHO/GM and one AGM. I believe they won the Cup with the same setup.
Pittsburgh has a POHO/GM and one AGM. I believe Rutherford's Cups was with this setup. In Rutherford's last years in Pittsburgh he had one AGM.
Chicago had POHO, a GM and one AGM when they won their Cups?
Bruins have a POHO, GM, and two AGMs for the longest time.
Washington has had a POHO/GM and 3 AGMs for the longest time.
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