Management Thread: Living In The Matrix

[4Twenty]

And when Markstrom is injured & declining with years remaining on his contract, I wouldn't have wanted to hear a peep out of you about it being another bad Benning contract.

Can you point to examples of these declining/injured big ticket goalies who’ve held their team back in the past?

It would make sense to compare Markstrom to Eriksson if Jacob was on the decline but he wasn’t and he’s not. Loui clearly was, just had a big contract year....the Bruins who never missed the playoffs did under Loui at 30 goals.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You do understand how difficult it is to acquire guys who can play high leverage minutes, correct?

They need to likely draft one of those this year. The only one they’ve acquired in seven years is Nate Schmidt.

I do..but as this young core gets better, I'm optimistic that they will attract the players they need.

 

[4Twenty]

You do understand how difficult it is to acquire guys who can play high leverage minutes, correct?

They need to likely draft one of those this year. The only one they’ve acquired in seven years is Nate Schmidt.

Stecher could in a pinch. Too bad they had no clue what they actually had in this player.

 

[4Twenty]

Why is Marky, the Vezina level team MVP goalie, the problem? Clearly we had an opportunity to manage assets better, and failed. Then, after “running out of time” to manage those assets Benning adds another bad contract in Holtby. Just terrible.

It’s crazy. Non stop excuses for Jim.

 

[Peen]

Stecher could in a pinch. Too bad they had no clue what they actually had in this player.

Ideal 4.5 hometown guy wanted to be here and would take a discount. So sad.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

At its worst, signing Markstrom to another 6 year deal wouldn’t do the damage the Eriksson deal has done, not even a percentage.

but is particularly hard to swallow when you see how badly the cap has been mismanaged to this point.

This is exactly it. People are caught on the past mistakes, and view everything through that lens.

On alot of the individual moves made, I'd probably agree with many here I find myself arguing with. (I mean I ripped them like everyone when the Miller trade was announced, for example)

But Im willing to be fair about things I see, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in some of my suggestions.

As far as Markstrom/Loui, sure Markstrom shouldn't be as bad as being a non-factor, he'd be a backup. But if you cant* get rid of the contract then it's still an overpaid backup, meaning; misallocated money.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

No need to make this about pro and anti. That’s the trademark of Losing the discussion.

Eddie lack dragged the team to the playoffs and was a tradeable asset. Markstrom a Vezina level team mvp.

Ryan Miller just wasted time and money. Same as Holtby.

People have posted that letting Markstrom walk made sense if they reinvested their money into the defence. Not a guy you hope plays less than half the games.

I don't think I'm the one making this pro or anti.

They traded Eddie Lack after the playoffs, did they not? Did you just start following the team? You know what, forget it, I don't think rehashing this Miller thing is useful actually. Fine, your correct it was a waste of time & potential.

Letting Markstrom go made sense because he priced himself out of Vancouver, it's not NHL 21, guys have UFA rights & use them. I covered the Holtby thing already. If your in the 'wanted Aaron Dell' camp, then that's perfectly fine & reasonable.

Why is Marky, the Vezina level team MVP goalie, the problem? Clearly we had an opportunity to manage assets better, and failed. Then, after “running out of time” to manage those assets Benning adds another bad contract in Holtby. Just terrible.

Were not going back down the 'shouldve traded Markstrom at the deadline' road again, are we?

 

[Fatass]

I don't think I'm the one making this pro or anti.

They traded Eddie Lack after the playoffs, did they not? Did you just start following the team? You know what, forget it, I don't think rehashing this Miller thing is useful actually. Fine, your correct it was a waste of time & potential.

Letting Markstrom go made sense because he priced himself out of Vancouver, it's not NHL 21, guys have UFA rights & use them. I covered the Holtby thing already. If your in the 'wanted Aaron Dell' camp, then that's perfectly fine & reasonable.



Were not going back down the 'shouldve traded Markstrom at the deadline' road again, are we?

what’s the 2020 TDL got to do with trading Demko after the bubble as sweetener to dump Loui? That’s the point when Benning said he “ran out of time”. That’s the missed opportunity to maximize asset value, and build a better supporting cast.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

what’s the 2020 TDL got to do with trading Demko after the bubble as sweetener to dump Loui? That’s the point when Benning said he “ran out of time”. That’s the missed opportunity to maximize asset value, and build a better supporting cast.

Well your talking about asset management, that would've been 1 road. (And the subject was brought up before)

Didn't he say that about Toffoli? Was there a reported deal available including Demko & Loui that they didn't act on?

Do you have evidence a team was prepared to take on Loui?

 

[I am toxic]

How about giving Jay Beagle not only 3 million with term but a NTC as well? The perfect trifecta of stupidity! But Gillis!

And after moronically criticizing Gillis for giving out trade protection to good players who took discounts so the Canucks could be one of the best teams in the league, HFBenning is silent when Benning moronically gives out more trade protection to bad players who are overpaid and we get one of the worst teams in the league.

But the cherry on top is we get HFBenning trolling our forum. I love it, of course.

 

[4Twenty]

I don't think I'm the one making this pro or anti.

They traded Eddie Lack after the playoffs, did they not? Did you just start following the team? You know what, forget it, I don't think rehashing this Miller thing is useful actually. Fine, your correct it was a waste of time & potential.

Letting Markstrom go made sense because he priced himself out of Vancouver, it's not NHL 21, guys have UFA rights & use them. I covered the Holtby thing already. If your in the 'wanted Aaron Dell' camp, then that's perfectly fine & reasonable.



Were not going back down the 'shouldve traded Markstrom at the deadline' road again, are we?

You know when you attack how long I’ve followed the team and comment on video games that you can’t really have a discussion.

Investing the savings of not paying Markstrom should have went into improving the team elsewhere. 5% of the cap on a guy you hope starts less than half your games is stupid. That’s what most have argued the whole time. You just weren’t online at the time I guess. It’s all there.

 

[I am toxic]

Was there a first rebuild?

Long story short, no.

Benning failed so badly at "competing now", that the league gifted his failure with high draft picks - that Benning effed up until Hughes in 2018.

 

[Dab]

This is exactly it. People are caught on the past mistakes, and view everything through that lens.

On alot of the individual moves made, I'd probably agree with many here I find myself arguing with. (I mean I ripped them like everyone when the Miller trade was announced, for example)

But Im willing to be fair about things I see, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in some of my suggestions.

As far as Markstrom/Loui, sure Markstrom shouldn't be as bad as being a non-factor, he'd be a backup. But if you cant* get rid of the contract then it's still an overpaid backup, meaning; misallocated money.

No I don’t believe this is the point. As others have pointed out, Benning seemingly had no plan, and has no plan- and manages Hockey operations day-by-day. People are viewing Bennings past summer through that lens. The bad contracts are just facts of life we can all see- and are probably a result of what I said above- no plan, fly by night managing.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

You know when you attack how long I’ve followed the team and comment on video games that you can’t really have a discussion.

Investing the savings of not paying Markstrom should have went into improving the team elsewhere. 5% of the cap on a guy you hope starts less than half your games is stupid. That’s what most have argued the whole time. You just weren’t online at the time I guess. It’s all there.

Well you said "they should've traded Eddie Lack after the playoffs", which is exactly what they did - so I'm just curious how you missed it, then proceeded to make that complaint.

I know the argument behind made, my point is it's either unfair (hindsight), dishonest (would've complained either way), or you legitimately wanted someone like Aaron Dell. Which is fine to say.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Because Eddie Lack turned into an all-star goalie....? Markstroms development didn't turn out great? And your not getting either guy if you signed Talbot or Griess.

The most important thing is Demko. Is it not reasonable to suggest a goalie capable of sharing the net mightve been beneficial entering the year - rather than the sink/swim route? Whether Holtby is that guy or not is a fine argument, but the price tag for that starts at 3.6.

And if not - then that's fine too but as I said I don't think the anti-Benning side would've been applauding an Aaron Dell signing on October 9th.

What do you think is worse for developing a goalie? Not having a veteran back up, or not improving on a bad defence, and even putting a worse one in front of him? A team that lost forward depth as well.

That is why cap space is so important. When you have as much wasted cap as we do you have to choose which hole to fill and leave others. I don't want to hear that fans would complain no matter Benning did. Benning caused this problem. That he only had the money to try to solve one problem is 100% on him. He doesn't get absolved from criticism because he was put between a rock and a hard place when he put the rock there.

 

[4Twenty]

Well you said "they should've traded Eddie Lack after the playoffs", which is exactly what they did - so I'm just curious how you missed it, then proceeded to make that complaint.

I know the argument behind made, my point is it's either unfair (hindsight), dishonest (would've complained either way), or you legitimately wanted someone like Aaron Dell. Which is fine to say.

I did not say that. I said he was traded for assets. Lack and Markstrom could’ve been the 1-2 punch for the Canucks from day 1. Benning spent $18m to get worse goaltending from Miller than his backups. Same thing we’re seeing with Holtby.

Benning is terrified to not have a name recognition goalie to back up his young incumbent.

 

[Hit the post]

And after moronically criticizing Gillis for giving out trade protection to good players who took discounts so the Canucks could be one of the best teams in the league, HFBenning is silent when Benning moronically gives out more trade protection to bad players who are overpaid and we get one of the worst teams in the league.

But the cherry on top is we get HFBenning trolling our forum. I love it, of course.

Benning even outdoes Benning!

Hands No Ballz Sutter a *retroactive* NTC before playing a single minute in a Canuck uniform!

 

[vanuck]

You can draft and build up your prospect pool, and get stuck in that cycle for years..no guarantees there.
Anyway, the 'sky is falling' as far as you're concerned, and nothing I say will change your outlook..So our conversation is pointless.
Have a good day.

With bad management, yes. That's kind of what I've been saying the whole time.

And considering your own stance on this management group over the past 7 years, you'd think it might be worth reviewing how you've been evaluating them and drawing conclusions over the last little while. Just a thought. YMMV.

Have a good day.

 

[Hyzer]

Benning even outdoes Benning!

Hands No Ballz Sutter a *retroactive* NTC before playing a single minute in a Canuck uniform!

Trading for Sutter and signing him to an albatross contract with a NTC without him even have played for the Canucks even ONCE.

Crazy shit man

 

[vanuck]

What do you think is worse for developing a goalie? Not having a veteran back up, or not improving on a bad defence, and even putting a worse one in front of him? A team that lost forward depth as well.

That is why cap space is so important. When you have as much wasted cap as we do you have to choose which hole to fill and leave others. I don't want to hear that fans would complain no matter Benning did. Benning caused this problem. That he only had the money to try to solve one problem is 100% on him. He doesn't get absolved from criticism because he was put between a rock and a hard place when he put the rock there.

Very well put. Especially the bolded.

I think it's also a bit of a reflection of an outdated mindset that you always need big-name, established starters as your No. 1 in order to get good goaltending, when we've been seeing since 2010 with the Hawks that even a stellar D-corps can make an average goalie look good as long as they take away dangerous shots. This is also partly why goalies generally do so well in Trotz's system - the defence prioritizes prevention of scoring chances from the home plate area.

Hence why people would've been okay with letting Markstrom go if the freed cap space was reinvested on the blueline. Which of course didn't happen because, as always, our GM is an incompetent moron who ironically somehow knows what winning teams look like.

 

[I am toxic]

Very well put. Especially the bolded.

I think it's also a bit of a reflection of an outdated mindset that you always need big-name, established starters as your No. 1 in order to get good goaltending, when we've been seeing since 2010 with the Hawks that even a stellar D-corps can make an average goalie look good as long as they take away dangerous shots. This is also partly why goalies generally do so well in Trotz's system - the defence prioritizes prevention of scoring chances from the home plate area.

Hence why people would've been okay with letting Markstrom go if the freed cap space was reinvested on the blueline. Which of course didn't happen because, as always, our GM is an incompetent moron who ironically somehow knows what winning teams look like.

Or better yet, planning ahead and getting something in return.

But you can't plan ahead if you are living in today.