Management Thread: Living In The Matrix

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If Benning were being honest in 2018 he would have backed Trevor up, instead he knifed Linden, and made terrible signings in an attempt to prove to his owner he could compete now. His calculation was way off. Pretty pathetic, spineless shit.

His calculation wasn't off at all..Clearly the Canucks had kicked it up the following season with Miller and Myers, and were clearly in the playoff picture..Last season was considered a success was it not?

 

[Fatass]

His calculation wasn't off at all..Clearly the Canucks had kicked it up the following season with Miller and Myers, and were clearly in the playoff picture..Last season was considered a success was it not?

Sustainable though? Even Benning just announced we are two or three more years away from being competitive. Why give up a first, second, and a third for Miller and Tofu (oh and Madden too) if those two guys aren’t part of that winning window? Wouldn’t Madden and the first likely be part of the window? It just doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Assuming you meant EP and Hughes, they weren't even on the roster back then in 2018. Horvat and Boeser were the only other ones you could point to as part of the young core, so what was the rush?

It's looking more and more likely that we miss the playoffs this year, and we might not even be a playoff team next season either simply due to lack of cap space to actually spend on improvements. How's that dissimilar to us "sitting in the weeds"?

We tried our best, and as long as we tried it's okay to have all these losing seasons? I don't think it works like that.

Do you not worry that players will truly be fed up with years of losing then?

The 2018 signings I'm referring to are Beagle and Roussel...I had no problem with the $, but the term was too long.

Wont make the playoffs this year, but if we were heading into the 7th consecutive year without the playoffs..there would be a completely different vibe around the team..Players want to compete, and nobody wants to play on a rebuilding team..If I was Bo Horvat, I'd be asking for a trade, instead of spending my whole career outside of the playoffs...Again, after that amount of time out of the playoffs, you're just as likely to lapse into a 2nd rebuild.

I feel confident that we will be back in the swing of things next season..Regardless of who the GM may be.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

If the other goalie was Dell we’d probably have one more win this season than we do now, and more cap space.

You missed the "if Demkos struggled" part. That was the whole reason they felt the need to bring in someone more established.

Because how much a downgrade would there be to go from Holtby to Dell (with the three million in freed up cap space spent on acquiring a defensive D man for the third pairing (and or using him to rotate guys like Edler in and out of the lineup on occasion to keep him fresh).

They have that in Hamonic/Benn. This also draws the question of what assets your giving up.


Demkos struggled early on, if the other goalie was even worse than Holtby the pitchforks would've been out regardless IMO. It's basically one way or another.

Looking back definitely would've been better served spending the cap elsewhere tho.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Sustainable though? Even Benning just announced we are two or three more years away from being competitive. Why give up a first, second, and a third for Miller and Tofu (oh and Madden too) if those two guys aren’t part of that winning window? Wouldn’t Madden and the first likely be part of the window? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Nothing makes sense when it comes to this organization.

The horse has been beaten to a paste - and is no longer even suitable for hot dog meat.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Sustainable though? Even Benning just announced we are two or three more years away from being competitive. Why give up a first, second, and a third for Miller and Tofu (oh and Madden too) if those two guys aren’t part of that winning window? Wouldn’t Madden and the first likely be part of the window? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Has it been confirmed that Miller has to be moved..Is he going to spontaneously combust at age 29 or something?

 

[Fatass]

You missed the "if Demkos struggled" part. That was the whole reason they felt the need to bring in someone more established.



They have that in Hamonic/Benn. This also draws the question of what assets your giving up.


Demkos struggled early on, if the other goalie was even worse than Holtby the pitchforks would've been out regardless IMO. It's basically one way or another.

Looking back definitely would've been better served spending the cap elsewhere tho.

Marky was proven, and playing Vezina level, right? Why is he not part of the winning window (according to Benning 2-3 years away)?

 

[Javaman]

His calculation wasn't off at all..Clearly the Canucks had kicked it up the following season with Miller and Myers, and were clearly in the playoff picture..Last season was considered a success was it not?

Not by people who've been paying attention.

"Clearly in the playoff picture" is just a happy spin of "on the verge of missing the playoffs for the 5th consecutive season."

The bubble was the bubble. It happened. It was weird and unpredictable and anomalous... but most importantly, it was not an indication that Benning had finally turned things around or had set the Canucks on the right path.

Pretending it signaled the beginning of the next phase of Canucks' sustained success is foolish.

 

[I am toxic]

So he gets worked up and excited when he's coaching. You say that like it's a bad thing...

It's a thing that needs to be managed.

A coach that is not thinking as clearly on the bench is not going to be as good as when they are thinking more clearly.

It has nothing to do with good or bad, it's just reality.

Again, it's dependent on the individual. Travis has a couple different issues that he needs to address to improve as a coach (oddly, one of them involves something similar to Willie), but the two I identified for Willie are what I would address. No one needs to pay me any attention, but I suspect it is their loss.

 

[Fatass]

Has it been confirmed that Miller has to be moved..Is he going to spontaneously combust at age 29 or something?

Miller will be a UFA. For one we likely will not be able to afford him, and I’m doubtful he wants to stay.
So we give up a first and a third for a guy who isn’t part of the predicted winning window. Even Miller himself is “shocked”.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Just because he is expensive doesn't mean he is good anymore.

There is inherent risk in a lot of moves..like letting Markstrom walk, and giving the keys to Demko (who has never shouldered the load of a #1 goaltender at the NHL level, and moreso due to a condensed schedule)...That is why they went for an experienced , expensive goaltender instead of a cheap backup.

There's no question Holtby has underwhelmed so far , but its a small sample size..His game wasnt going to be transformed overnight.

 

[I am toxic]

Not by people who've been paying attention.

"Clearly in the playoff picture" is just a happy spin of "on the verge of missing the playoffs for the 5th consecutive season."

The bubble was the bubble. It happened. It was weird and unpredictable and anomalous... but most importantly, it was not an indication that Benning had finally turned things around or had set the Canucks on the right path.

Pretending it signaled the beginning of the next phase of Canucks' sustained success is foolish.

The Canucks were plummeting out of playoff contention before they announced on March 11 that Marky was on LTIR and Tanev was week to week. That evening, the season was suspended.

The Canucks only squeaked into last year's playoffs because of covid. Without that, it would have been yet another season without playoffs.

The only success last season was Benning mortgaging the team's future, to save his sorry ass job. Our stars are on ELC's, we are capped out, our pipeline is barren, and our first draft pick in the last draft was in the 3rd round.

"This is a team we can turn around in a hurry". - Jim Benning May 23, 2014

"I think in two years time, I think we're gonna be real competitive and have a chance to compete for the Cup". - Jim Benning March 5, 2021

 

[Hit the post]

You missed the "if Demkos struggled" part. That was the whole reason they felt the need to bring in someone more established.



They have that in Hamonic/Benn. This also draws the question of what assets your giving up.


Demkos struggled early on, if the other goalie was even worse than Holtby the pitchforks would've been out regardless IMO. It's basically one way or another.

Looking back definitely would've been better served spending the cap elsewhere tho.

meh. He is supposed to have expertise on the matter vs us armchair quarterbacks. If Luongo didn't **** the bed for just one more game, there would be statues of Gillis in front of the arena. He went with the decision to go with Demko over Markstrom
Problem was choosing a **** backup in Holtby and spending valuable cap space on that garbage.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Miller will be a UFA. For one we likely will not be able to afford him, and I’m doubtful he wants to stay.
So we give up a first and a third for a guy who isn’t part of the predicted winning window. Even Miller himself is “shocked”.

How do you know he doesnt want to stay..?..By that time, most of the crap will off the books..You're not still clinging on to that shocked narrative are you..?..I'm sure he's well over that.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Not by people who've been paying attention.

"Clearly in the playoff picture" is just a happy spin of "on the verge of missing the playoffs for the 5th consecutive season."

The bubble was the bubble. It happened. It was weird and unpredictable and anomalous... but most importantly, it was not an indication that Benning had finally turned things around or had set the Canucks on the right path.

Pretending it signaled the beginning of the next phase of Canucks' sustained success is foolish.

Even you claimed that the Canucks were a playoff caliber team, but not a contender...

 

[4Twenty]

You missed the "if Demkos struggled" part. That was the whole reason they felt the need to bring in someone more established.



They have that in Hamonic/Benn. This also draws the question of what assets your giving up.


Demkos struggled early on, if the other goalie was even worse than Holtby the pitchforks would've been out regardless IMO. It's basically one way or another.

Looking back definitely would've been better served spending the cap elsewhere tho.

In this hypothetical did we keep Tanev or Toffoli?

I’ll never understand how folks who witnessed the Ryan Miller era want to support doing the same thing 7 seasons later.

It was a waste of precious cap space the moment it was announced.

 

[I am toxic]

The new young core is constantly changing

 

[Hit the post]

In this hypothetical did we keep Tanev or Toffoli?

I’ll never understand how folks who witnessed the Ryan Miller era want to support doing the same thing 7 seasons later.

It was a waste of precious cap space the moment it was announced.

Think of the waste next season with Holtby still on the roster. Now with Demko and his big (deserved) raise.

 

[vanuck]

The 2018 signings I'm referring to are Beagle and Roussel...I had no problem with the $, but the term was too long.

Wont make the playoffs this year, but if we were heading into the 7th consecutive year without the playoffs..there would be a completely different vibe around the team..Players want to compete, and nobody wants to play on a rebuilding team..If I was Bo Horvat, I'd be asking for a trade, instead of spending my whole career outside of the playoffs...Again, after that amount of time out of the playoffs, you're just as likely to lapse into a 2nd rebuild.

I feel confident that we will be back in the swing of things next season..Regardless of who the GM may be.

So this really all boils down to pleasing one player - Horvat - and not wanting him to potentially ask for a trade. Got it.

 

[Javaman]

Even you claimed that the Canucks were a playoff caliber team, but not a contender...

If everything was working out for the Canucks. As in key players remained healthy, amongst other things.

Still doesn't change the fact that the Canucks were probably going to continue their slide down the standings and miss the playoffs again. The pandemic gave Benning a reprieve.

 

[Fatass]

If everything was working out for the Canucks. As in key players remained healthy, amongst other things.

Still doesn't change the fact that the Canucks were probably going to continue their slide down the standings and miss the playoffs again. The pandemic gave Benning a reprieve.

The pandemic and sacrificing the future (again) by trading away a top prospect - Madden - and a second for a rental in Tofu. And now Benning cones out and says we are 2-3 years away. Why in the heck was he giving up picks and prospects over these last couple years? The guy honestly has no plan, and does go “day by day”.

 

[I am toxic]

So this really all boils down to pleasing one player - Horvat - and not wanting him to potentially ask for a trade. Got it.

Notice all the falsehoods slipped into a single post - there never was a first rebuild, so any future rebuild if it were to happen would be the first. Not to mention that paying 4th liners $3M is moronic, regardless of term.

Finally, what would it be without good ol' wait and see - "I feel confident next season we'll be back in the swing of things" (whatever that means).

Guess what I feel confident about?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So this really all boils down to pleasing one player - Horvat - and not wanting him to potentially ask for a trade. Got it.

and the Canucks not being a destination for other players who want to win...No matter how you slice it..6-7 consecutive years out of the post season is a very bad look , and can just as easily devolve into a 'losing culture' or a 2nd rebuild.

There's no guarantees.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Marky was proven, and playing Vezina level, right? Why is he not part of the winning window (according to Benning 2-3 years away)?

What does Marky have to do with what I said? Kind of an extreme. So now they should've given Markstrom 6x6? And lose Demko in expansion?

Would've been a bad decision IMO, glad they didn't.

meh. He is supposed to have expertise on the matter vs us armchair quarterbacks. If Luongo didn't **** the bed for just one more game, there would be statues of Gillis in front on the arena. He went with the decision to go with Demko over Markstrom
Problem was choosing a **** backup in Holtby and spending valuable cap space on that garbage.

I was looking at the other options, Cam Talbot & Thomas Griess are the most obvious alternatives, both signed for 3.6.

Beyond that your looking at names like Dell, Kinkaid.. maybe Malcolm Subban. Now it doesn't rly matter who the backup is, but I can't imagine they would've been applauded for going into the season W/ Demko & one of them as the tandem.

Choosing Demko over Markstrom was the wise decision IMO. And what's the obsession here with Gillis..?

 

[4Twenty]

Think of the waste next season with Holtby still on the roster. Now with Demko and his big (deserved) raise.

I did when I criticized the deal the moment it was announced. Demko has his own Ryan Miller.