Management Thread | Is a Reckoning coming?

[logan5]

Wtf?

I am here engaging in good faith honest debate. Your poorly veiled attempt at insult and suppression of debate would not be appreciated.

Except it is, because I am tox . . . well, you know . . .


Yeah, I noticed those weasel words. Like I predicted in a previous post.

I was just trying to suggest a friendly conversation, that’s it. I don’t know where this suppression of debate thing is coming from. I’ve never complained about you or anyone else to the mods, if that’s what you are thinking.

 

[RobertKron]

The 1990 draft still hurts for me.

Petr friggin Nedved over 6 future NHL All-stars including a HoF goalie.

Jagr or Brodeur would have changed this organization for decades.

There was understandable uncertainty surrounding Jagr, as he was, as far as I understand, the first player from the soviet bloc that was able to come over without having to defect.

Nedved was pretty much a total no-brainer pick there. Huge talent who had defected and wrecked the dub as a draft-eligible in his first year after defecting from his home country. 6th in scoring in the WHL, with the only draft-eligible above him being Brian Sakic who wasn't going in the first round after gang-raping a learning disabled girl in Swift Current, as outlined here.

Edit: removed the quote because it's pretty f***ing horrific.

Edit no.2: Also, regarding Jagr, there was this as well:

According to Craig Patrick, the former Penguins general manager who drafted Jagr 26 years ago, the Czech winger did his best to manipulate the draft so that he could end up in Pittsburgh playing alongside Mario Lemieux. As one of the top prospects in the 1990 class, Patrick said that the Penguins, who had the fifth overall pick, were surprised that Jagr was available when it was their turn to pick.

But, as it turns out, it may have come down to more than just luck.

"I found out years later that when he was interviewed by teams ahead of us, he told them all that he wasn't coming over [to the NHL] right away," Patrick recently told reporters at a Penguins alumni golf outing. "When we asked him that question, he said 'I'll be there tomorrow if you draft me.' I think other teams backed off because of that. We were happy he was there. We were surprised he was there, definitely."

Jagr was reportedly willing to make more of a commitment to the Penguins than the four teams that picked before them -- the Nordiques, Canucks, Red Wings and Flyers -- because he "idolized" Lemieux.

How Jaromir Jagr may have manipulated the 1990 NHL draft in his favor | FOX Sports

 

[arttk]

Miller and Horvat re-signing aren't even that big of a deal. They should get paid appropriately or they should be moved on from if they can't come to terms. Both need to be done the off-season prior and no more waiting around until the last minute so we can watch assets bleed away into nothing. Paying good players the money that they are worth should never really be a concern if you have a capable GM.

Getting a 3rd line center is the top priority to me. Then, a right-side defenseman who has top-four upside. In all of the mess of this year as well, it's kind of forgotten how bad of a year it was in terms of progression for both EP and Hughes. If these guys are going to be very good/great players instead of elite players then the future will be much bleaker.

Honestly I don’t even think we should re-sign Miller and I am iffy about Horvat too. Horvat’s is not going to age gracefully because once his skating drops, it’s going to be ugly.
I think the next GM needs to deal with what to do with these 2 players ASAP and position the team to compete in 2 years and have the pieces in place to support Petey and Hughes.
Realistically though, I think that’s not the path the new GM will take because that path will be hard to sell to the fans.

 

[vancityluongo]

I hope Aquillini promotes Benning to President of Hockey Ops and hired a new Gm just to mess with everyone on this board. The backlash will keep me entertained for weeks

Would be fine with this.

Paul Holmgren was basically Benning before Benning and got that same promotion. They brought in Ron Hextall and built up a pretty decent system. Haven't been able to execute just yet, but Philly is a decently run organization. Looking at their front office page, they have a staff that makes sense for a $1B organization. Front Office Staff

Now contrast that to the Canucks page: Front Office

Obviously the Flyers seem to be naming everyone that works for them while the Canucks are only listing some key management, but it's interesting IMO to see the contrast in how the two teams recognize staff.

 

[I am toxic]

I was just trying to suggest a friendly conversation, that’s it. I don’t know where this suppression of debate thing is coming from. I’ve never complained about you or anyone else to the mods, if that’s what you are thinking.

I don't believe you.

 

[Peen]

This is one of the funnier management threads we’ve had in the last seven years

 

[canucksfan]

Remember when we finished in 29th and the only worse team was the Avalanche with some ridiculous total, 48 points or something like that? Hmmm. Makes you think. Or, it should.

What should have happened is rebuild after losing to the Kings. I can understand ownership wanting to try one more year but after losing to the Sharks that should have been the signal to rebuild. They then miss the playoffs and Benning is brought in to retool. Retool failed and the warning signs were there very quickly. Should have not signed long-term UFA contracts during the retooling process.

During a proper rebuild, you want to sign UFAs to one-year deals to get assets at the deadline. Get as many picks and prospects as possible. Keep your salary low.

I love following the Jays and the contrast to a proper rebuild(Jays) and refusing to rebuild or sucking at it (Canucks) is quite apparent. Jays waited too long to rebuild as well but they quickly tore it down. Traded players for prospects and kept their salary low. Jays have a crap ton of young talent and with the salary being low, they got the best positional player during last year's free agency. Meanwhile, the Canucks will suck next year too and there is very little promise for the years ahead.

Jays started to rebuild in 2018 and they are much farther along than the Canucks and it takes longer in baseball than it does hockey.

 

[arttk]

I don't believe you.

Just your average friendly neighborhood Benning bro pumping tires.

 

[RussianRacket]

This is one of the funnier management threads we’ve had in the last seven years

Indeed. No one is allowed to say anything other than Benning being hockey Hitler or else the rabid dogs get released, and its amusing to watch the collective seething and foaming at the mouth from certain folks.

I'm glad Benning drafted EP40, Hughes, Boeser, Demko, etc.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Indeed. No one is allowed to say anything other than Benning being hockey Hitler or else the rabid dogs get released, and its amusing to watch the collective seething and foaming at the mouth from certain folks.

I'm glad Benning drafted EP40, Hughes, Boeser, Demko, etc.

People can post whatever they want. Just don’t get so upset when your argument gets demolished based on the facts and reason. Playing the victim card is a bad look.

 

[RussianRacket]

People can post whatever they want. Just don’t get so upset when your argument gets demolished based on the facts and reason. Playing the victim card is a bad look.

Ah yes me, one who wants Benning fired, has been demolished in this thread.

 

[racerjoe]

Lets debunk drafting here for a second and more so what we all keep hearing. 3 Rookie of the year finalist... So I thought I would do a quick exercise and go back to 2000-2010. Not that long ago, but long enough where we can judge players careers. Here is what I found, all information from hockey Reference.com;

Sorry for the mess didn't know how to format this and wasn't going to waste a ton of time on it.

2001 Nabokov Richards Havlat were the three finalist, and Maybe you take Richards but the non finalist were Sedins, Luongo, Gaborik

2002 Heatley Kovy Huselius Hard to not take Kovy, but My Favorite that year was Datsyk, other notables Cole Vrbrata Kiprusff

2003 Jackman Zetterberg Nash I am likeing the runners up a lot so far, other notables - Bouwmeester Hemsky

2004 Raycroft Ryder Hunter I take anf of these three easily Bergeron Hamhuis Staal

2005 Ovie Crosby Phaneuf A stacked year, other notables that year Lundqvist Ryan Miller Jeff Carter Brent Seabrook Kunitz Suter

2006 Malkin Stastny Staal ok I take Malkin first, but I think it would be hard not to pick any of these three next Kopitar Vlasic Kessel

2007 Kane Backstrom Toews Chicago had a good year other notables Price Lucic Edler

2008 Steve Mason Bobby Ryan Versteeg Again I take one of these guys easily over those three Rinne Doughty Wheeler Oshie Stamkos Quick Giroux

2009 Myers Howard Duchene Dushesne was a good player but do you take him over Rask Taveres Benn Hedman Evander Kane

2010 Skinner Couture Grabner Do you take any of them over Crawford Carlson Subban Bobrovsky Hall Shattenkirk Marchand


I would take the non top 3, 6 out of the 10 years. Does a calder win really mean anything?

I think drafting is important, but I also think it is probably one of the least important parts in building a team.

 

[logan5]

People can post whatever they want. Just don’t get so upset when your argument gets demolished based on the facts and reason. Playing the victim card is a bad look.

Like I said, I never complained to any mods , and I let pretty much everything slide. I told one guy not to call me chimp. Is that playing the victim card?

 

[TraderJim]

Like I said, I never complained to any mods , and I let pretty much everything slide. I told one guy not to call me chimp. Is that playing the victim card?

This is a lie. You have made several posts about it just in the last 72 hours.

 

[Melvin]

What should have happened is rebuild after losing to the Kings. I can understand ownership wanting to try one more year but after losing to the Sharks that should have been the signal to rebuild. They then miss the playoffs and Benning is brought in to retool. Retool failed and the warning signs were there very quickly. Should have not signed long-term UFA contracts during the retooling process.

During a proper rebuild, you want to sign UFAs to one-year deals to get assets at the deadline. Get as many picks and prospects as possible. Keep your salary low.

I think Gillis did a good job kick-starting the process. Schneider for (effectively) Horvat and Luongo for Markstrom+Matthias were two excellent trades to start our rebuild. I imagine Gillis would have flipped Matthias for picks instead of letting him walk and watching TO move him for picks. Richardson also likely could have been traded for picks too.

The more I think about it the more I realize how completely bullshit it was that he never even got to try to do any kind of re-tool, because management didn't want to suffer for ~2 years of being bad and brought in Benning to get them back into the playoffs immediately. Good job, morons.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Ah yes me, one who wants Benning fired, has been demolished in this thread.

I mean if you ignore your entire posting history propping Benning up as well as voting in favour of Benning being a good GM a few days, then sure, you’ve got a point.

 

[Gstank]

What should have happened is rebuild after losing to the Kings. I can understand ownership wanting to try one more year but after losing to the Sharks that should have been the signal to rebuild. They then miss the playoffs and Benning is brought in to retool. Retool failed and the warning signs were there very quickly. Should have not signed long-term UFA contracts during the retooling process.

During a proper rebuild, you want to sign UFAs to one-year deals to get assets at the deadline. Get as many picks and prospects as possible. Keep your salary low.

I love following the Jays and the contrast to a proper rebuild(Jays) and refusing to rebuild or sucking at it (Canucks) is quite apparent. Jays waited too long to rebuild as well but they quickly tore it down. Traded players for prospects and kept their salary low. Jays have a crap ton of young talent and with the salary being low, they got the best positional player during last year's free agency. Meanwhile, the Canucks will suck next year too and there is very little promise for the years ahead.

Jays started to rebuild in 2018 and they are much farther along than the Canucks and it takes longer in baseball than it does hockey.

Do you not remember the decade of medicority that the Jays were in before 2014?. It actually doesnt take longer in baseball. In baseball you dont just have the draft. You have internation FA and International prospects who only cost a signing fee which is like getting a couple 1st round picks if you develope them correctly. You also get compensation picks for lost UFA not to mentions you have 6 years of service time 4 of those where players basically have to sign whats given to them and no salary cap

 

[logan5]

This is a lie. You have made several posts about it just in the last 72 hours.

Several posts about what? Complaining to mods? I truly don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[Cupless44]

Ah yes me, one who wants Benning fired, has been demolished in this thread.

If you look at Benning's body of work with any degree of objectivity and intelligence it is impossible to come to any other rational conclusion then him being grossly incompetent at his job. There is much more than being a GM than hitting the odd high draft pick when you finish at the bottom of the standings.

Saying that as I watch Gustav Forsling looking really good ina playoff game.

How many bad mistakes can one guy make and keep his job?

 

[Canucker]

What should have happened is rebuild after losing to the Kings. I can understand ownership wanting to try one more year but after losing to the Sharks that should have been the signal to rebuild. They then miss the playoffs and Benning is brought in to retool. Retool failed and the warning signs were there very quickly. Should have not signed long-term UFA contracts during the retooling process.

During a proper rebuild, you want to sign UFAs to one-year deals to get assets at the deadline. Get as many picks and prospects as possible. Keep your salary low.

I love following the Jays and the contrast to a proper rebuild(Jays) and refusing to rebuild or sucking at it (Canucks) is quite apparent. Jays waited too long to rebuild as well but they quickly tore it down. Traded players for prospects and kept their salary low. Jays have a crap ton of young talent and with the salary being low, they got the best positional player during last year's free agency. Meanwhile, the Canucks will suck next year too and there is very little promise for the years ahead.

Jays started to rebuild in 2018 and they are much farther along than the Canucks and it takes longer in baseball than it does hockey.

Yeah, but the rebuild "just wasn't fair to the Sedins"...we had to endure trying to milk the ends of their careers when absolutely nothing was working...Management should have been straight up with them, tell them the rebuild is on...we're going to suck for a few years, if they want to stay and mentor, thats fine (they had full NMC's so the ball was firmly in their court)...if they want to move to a contender management could make it happen....at least the fans would have been treated fairly in this scenario.

 

[RussianRacket]

If you look at Benning's body of work with any degree of objectivity and intelligence it is impossible to come to any other rational conclusion then him being grossly incompetent at his job. There is much more than being a GM than hitting the odd high draft pick when you finish at the bottom of the standings.

Yes. And?