Management Thread | Is a Reckoning coming?

[VancouverJagger]

Oh Praise Baby Jesus I hope this is true. Dare to dream............

 

[krutovsdonut]

For me it's more a perception that this thinking is what lead us into the current mess we're in. Where Gillis should have been placed was on the hot seat, not the chopping block.
After leading the franchise through it's most successful stretch ever what he deserved was a season or two to show he could correct the course of the team.

i completely agree with this. whatever i think of him, gillis should have had autonomy to deal with post 2011 .

according to gillis, aquaman would not let him try. the direction was set by aquaman and when it did not work he fired gillis and hired another guy to try the same direction.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And Gillis made him take less money to make it happen. You make sound like it’s easy to get one of the most sought after ufa to take less money. This is the type of head in the sand thinking that perpetuate the idea Benning is good for the past 7 years.

Its like Suter and Parise going back to their hometown Minnesota...Is this astute GM'ing, or just geographically being in the right place?

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Absolutely. That one series loss to Boston is probably the worst thing that ever happened to this franchise for so many reasons and pretty much directly turned us from the TB of that era into a Buffalo/Edmonton-level franchise run by dinosaur morons. It justified every bit of anti-intellectualism and base-level dinosaur thinking that had been harbored by everyone from the owner to the media to the fans and brought it out into the open. And then we burned our own house down because we thought there were witches in it.

I blame Nathan Horton. Series winner vs Montreal, series winner vs Tampa Bay (who we probably beat), hit by Rome and then comes back to a roaring crowd, effectively sparking the comeback and the Canucks' collapse.

Semi-sarcastic.

 

[MS]

Nonis is remembered for the Luongo deal that fell into his lap because Mike Keenan is a moron and was in love with Bertuzzi.

Dave Nonis was a meek AGM type who had no leadership skills and no idea how to run an NHL team from the top. He was confused and indecisive about absolutely everything from the moment he was hired other than the Luongo deal falling into his lap.

He once cried when he had to fire a coach.

This team achieved to the level of their leadership under him and would never have accomplished shit if he'd stayed.

 

[Javaman]

Does anyone know if it's possible to adjust the settings on HF so that any post by Melvin is automatically "liked" by me?

Or will I just have to wear out the left button on my mouse?

Just curious.

 

[krutovsdonut]

It's amazing how people would never argue that Brian Burke took over a mess and gave the team direction and a plan and that his leadership was instrumental in creating the highs of the WCE era ... despite the fact that most of the core of that team was inherited, too.

But those same people are positively offended at the notion that Gillis did the same thing with the floundering Nonis core.

you mean brian burke who swung the sedin draft?

 

[Phenomenon13]

Getting beaten by Boston in particular and having the narrative be that they were big mean old school bullies who dominated us because we're a bunch of p***yes, literally set this franchise back a decade. For a couple years after all anyone would talk about was the "Boston Model." Marchand rabbit punching D. Sedin, meat and potatoes, etc. etc. etc. It's incredible how much different the perception would be if we won just one more game. If the Bruins didn't have Colin Campbell in their pocket...

But yes, that pretty much put on the shelf all the nerdy bullshit like performance science and analytics, and made the market hungry for a fictitious team of big mean bad guys who play old school hockey and have grit coming out of their buttholes. Which, hilariously enough, Benning has somehow completely failed to do, as the team under him has been consistently soft, slow, weak and pathetic.

I disagree with this. The meat and potatoes old school hockey style was favored by everyone because the cup champions in recent years were LA (2012 and 2014) and Boston (2011). This was the dominant "winning" style at the time.

The nhl is a copycat league and led the Canucks to this direction.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Dave Nonis was a meek AGM type who had no leadership skills and no idea how to run an NHL team from the top. He was confused and indecisive about absolutely everything from the moment he was hired other than the Luongo deal falling into his lap.

He once cried when he had to fire a coach.

This team achieved to the level of their leadership under him and would never have accomplished shit if he'd stayed.

sounds like an appeal to intangibles to me.

 

[arttk]

Its like Suter and Parise going back to their hometown Minnesota...Is this astute GM'ing, or just geographically being in the right place?

Suter and Parise didn’t take a discount now did they… Nevermind that it was Suter who actively made that happen.

 

[MS]

you mean brian burke who swung the sedin draft?

The Sedins were not part of the WCE core.

Burke inherited Naslund/Bertuzzi/Ohlund plus Sopel/Cooke types in the system plus the Bure and Mogilny trade assets. He turned Bure into Jovanovski in a horrible trade and Mogilny into Morrison in a pretty good one. And squandered Adrian Aucoin on Dan Cloutier.

Burke inherited a multitude of riches including the best young blueline group in the NHL. But that team badly needed leadership and direction and he provided it.

 

[MS]

sounds like an appeal to intangibles to me.

The notion that people perform better in a positive working environment with strong leadership and positive direction and a plan/vision that those workers buy into rather than a poorly-run organization with no leadership or direction where they're just showing up to get a paycheck ... is not some sort of voodoo nonsense. Like, I assume you've had a job at some point in your life?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Suter and Parise didn’t take a discount now did they… Nevermind that it was Suter who actively made that happen.

Hamhuis came here because he wanted to come home.He said it himself..Whether Gillis was here or not, the elite players were here..I've already found the quote and proved it years ago...but if you want to think its another Gillis masterstroke..go nuts.

 

[Hyzer]

The notion that people perform better in a positive working environment with strong leadership and positive direction and a plan/vision that those workers buy into rather than a poorly-run organization with no leadership or direction where they're just showing up to get a paycheck ... is not some sort of voodoo nonsense. Like, I assume you've had a job at some point in your life?

If people were just to understand that an NHL GM is very similar to a CEO of a large company, they would understand why Benning needs to go. Good CEO's have good plans, direction, communicaiton, and delegate tasks to others with strengths that the CEO can see, through management style.

But that doesn't dawn on everyone, apparently.

 

[MS]

Hamhuis came here because he wanted to come home.He said it himself..Whether Gillis was here or not, the elite players were here..I've already found the quote and proved it years ago...but if you want to think its another Gillis masterstroke..go nuts.

The over-simplification here is amazing.

1) You need to have cap space to make these things happen. RNH could be desperate to sign in Vancouver this summer ... but it ain't happening because this team has been poorly run and we're paying Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel instead.

2) If the 2010 Canucks were a 28th place Jim Benning-run team, I doubt Hamhuis is the least bit interested. He was 28 years old and wanted to win a Cup, and the fact that his home team was an elite team worked out very well for him.

3) Plenty of players are probably interested in returning home and signing here. It's a matter of selecting the right ones in the right roles at the right price. Tyler Myers 'fell into Benning's lap' in the same way (from Kelowna, wanted to come home) ... but at his ability level and price a good GM passes on him.

 

[arttk]

Hamhuis came here because he wanted to come home.He said it himself..Whether Gillis was here or not, the elite players were here..I've already found the quote and proved it years ago...but if you want to think its another Gillis masterstroke..go nuts.

Yeah he wanted to come back but that doesn’t mean it was a given that he would take a paycut to make it happen which Gillis made happen. If it’s that easy to get players to take home town discounts then we will see it all the time and yet we don’t.
Look at Tryamkin, he wanted to come and Benning couldn’t make the cap work to make that happen. Just an example of, it’s not as simple as, player wants to be here and the team can just make it happen.

 

[MS]

If people were just to understand that an NHL GM is very similar to a CEO of a large company, they would understand why Benning needs to go. Good CEO's have good plans, direction, communicaiton, and delegate tasks to others with strengths that the CEO can see, through management style.

But that doesn't dawn on everyone, apparently.

It's the most simple, obvious thing in the world that I'm sure everyone here has experienced working for both good and bad employers ... but some people simply can't take it out of their own experience and connect it to a hockey team.

 

[Javaman]

Gillis:

• not great at drafting
• pretty damn good at everything else

Benning:

• average at drafting
• pretty damn lousy at everything else

See! They're exactly the same!

obligatory: /sarcasm

 

[MS]

Gillis:

• not great at drafting
• pretty damn good at everything else

Benning:

• average at drafting
• pretty damn lousy at everything else

See! They're exactly the same!

obligatory: /sarcasm

This is even generous because drafting isn't a direct GM thing and once Gillis fixed our scouting staff he 'could draft' just fine.

Gillis made an executive error in trusting that a former friend and teammate in Ron Delorme could do his job properly and in waiting 3 years before removing Delorme from a position of influence.

 

[TraderJim]

Tofolli wanted to sign here. How’d that work out for Benning? Guess just wanting to play somewhere doesn’t magically make it happen, hey?

 

[MS]

Tofolli wanted to sign here. How’d that work out for Benning? Guess just wanting to play somewhere doesn’t magically make it happen, hey?

Hahaha, no kidding.

I guess having a player 'fall into your lap' and signing him at a discount isn't so easy?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Its like Suter and Parise going back to their hometown Minnesota...Is this astute GM'ing, or just geographically being in the right place?

Astute GMing is taking advantage of a team like San Jose who needed to clear cap space and acquiring a stud offensive defenseman like Ehrhoff for a draft pick bust. Astute GMing would be to target teams in the upcoming expansion draft who can't keep all their quality players and acquiring them for a discount. Astute GMing is something the Canucks haven't had in a decade.

 

[Javaman]

This is even generous because drafting isn't a direct GM thing and once Gillis fixed our scouting staff he 'could draft' just fine.

Gillis made an executive error in trusting that a former friend and teammate in Ron Delorme could do his job properly and in waiting 3 years before removing Delorme from a position of influence.

Yes, I was in a mood to be unnecessarily generous. Must be the beer.

No sarcasm there.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Astute GMing is taking advantage of a team like San Jose who needed to clear cap space and acquiring a stud offensive defenseman like Ehrhoff for a draft pick bust. Astute GMing would be to target teams in the upcoming expansion draft who can't keep all their quality players and acquiring them for a discount. Astute GMing is something the Canucks haven't had in a decade.

Benning basically did the same thing with Schmidt...but that was just a' fluke' wasnt it?

 

[The Vasili Jerry]

So Friedman just said that Courtnall has been contacted about an advisory role, huh.