Management Thread II - Read OP

[F A N]

Jim Benning himself expected to compete with the elite teams in year 5. I think its save to say he failed.

It's not save to say. It's safe to say.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

First offseason on his own without linden. I think he’s done pretty damn good.

If he fails then he’s out, at least in my mind.

Only thing I can hold against him is not pushing his own strategy onto a hall of fame, union boss, Canadian hero and Vancouver icon, Trevor linden. .

Sink or swim, Jim.

 

[Pip]

Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel were enough to give the Canucks a playoff push?...Nobody knew where the goals were going to come from with the Sedins retired?..Nobody knew if EP could even crack the NHL..We did'nt even have a #1 goalie...

There were no serious expectations to make the playoffs last season.

So if we manage to someone squeeze into the playoffs next year Benning’s tenure somehow becomes a success? What a ridiculously low bar considering that half the league makes it every year. You have to evaluate what Benning has done, you can’t just ignore it and stand by this bs wait and see cop out.

Benning himself promised a quick turnaround and every year has stated the goal is the playoffs and has failed to deliver. The reason that nobody was/is expecting us to make the playoffs is because Benning has built a crappy team. That’s it. There’s no excuse for this level of incompetence from a process and results standpoint. Every year he stays he does more irreparable damage to this franchise and wastes more prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo. We’ve already been saddled by an additional albatross contract and have given up a first round pick coming off a bottom 10 year. Enough is enough with this defense.

 

[Pip]

First offseason on his own without linden. I think he’s done pretty damn good.

If he fails then he’s out, at least in my mind.

Only thing I can hold against him is not pushing his own strategy onto a hall of fame, union boss, Canadian hero and Vancouver icon, Trevor linden. .

Sink or swim, Jim.

Nice fanfic

 

[Peter10]

In retrospect,..not a smart thing for a GM to say at the beginning of his tenure...I'm sure he's not the first GM to make a pronouncement that he couldn't keep.

Having said that,..He's going into year 6 with all the cards on the table ,and he's betting his job on it.

He said this in 2016

Iain MacIntyre: If losing doesn't get Canucks GM Jim Benning, the 'misinformation' will

“We want to be competitive next year,” Benning said. “Realistically, if you’re asking me when will the day be that we can compete with the best teams in the league, I think that (Sedin contract) timeline is fair. This is Year 2, and by our fourth or fifth year, I hope we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”

He was "not very smart" in 2014 when he said he could turn this team around in a hurry, he was not very smart in 2016 when he said the above mentioned. And he is still not very smart today.

 

[TruGr1t]

It's a three year chart because the sample size is really small if you look at one season. Even with the three chart you're looking at like 60-70 games out of 240 for most guys. These stats are derived by fans who are analytic enthusiasts. They manually tally entry stats from watching games to build this database. This isn't like corsi that you derive from published stats. They don't have the resources to watch every single game so they have about 15-30 games/season for every player. Here's the 1 year chart for Myers and Hutton based on 20ish games.

Very good post, which makes the Myers contract look pretty terrible. You basically indicated we paid $6M AAV for Ben Hutton with +/- 15 extra ES points per season.

 

[Peter10]

It's not save to say. It's safe to say.

Thanks for the correction. Since English isnt my first language I am always happy if someone helps me to improve it.

 

[MS]

As for Brackett, you think he wouldn't be frustrated when Gillis wanted to draft overagers and bigger players?

Probably not, considering we've drafted 10 overagers in 4 drafts under Brackett, a huge increase over anything we did under Gillis.

The drafting overagers thing was completely correct - they have a higher hit rate in later rounds. It's just that the Mallet pick was so awful and got such bad press it tainted the whole exercise. Nobody seems to remember that Hutton was an overager in the same draft taken with our very next pick.

 

[F A N]

Probably not, considering we've drafted 10 overagers in 4 drafts under Brackett, a huge increase over anything we did under Gillis.

The drafting overagers thing was completely correct - they have a higher hit rate in later rounds. It's just that the Mallet pick was so awful and got such bad press it tainted the whole exercise. Nobody seems to remember that Hutton was an overager in the same draft taken with our very next pick.

Hutton was a direct result of Gillis' "money puck" philosophy of drafting overagers. Mallet was also the shining example though. They were thinking of Tanner Pearson.

 

[xtra]

Please find me the quotes where Benning has explicitly said he believes the Canucks are a "playoff" team in the last two seasons...He has said he would like the team to be 'competitive'...

'Our goal is to win games ,and remain competitive to make the playoffs' Benning..2018...

.

Like isn’t this him saying the goal is to be competitive to make the playoffs. Isn’t this him saying the goal is playoffs?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

[QUOTE="Pip, post: 163602915, member: 149375"]So if we manage to someone squeeze into the playoffs next year Benning’s tenure somehow becomes a success? What a ridiculously low bar considering that half the league makes it every year. You have to evaluate what Benning has done, you can’t just ignore it and stand by this bs wait and see cop out.

Benning himself promised a quick turnaround and every year has stated the goal is the playoffs and has failed to deliver. The reason that nobody was/is expecting us to make the playoffs is because Benning has built a crappy team. That’s it. There’s no excuse for this level of incompetence from a process and results standpoint. Every year he stays he does more irreparable damage to this franchise and wastes more prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo. We’ve already been saddled by an additional albatross contract and have given up a first round pick coming off a bottom 10 year. Enough is enough with this defense.[/QUOTE]

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Bennings tenure' could' be looked at as a success' if' the Canucks have a turnaround year next year...I would base that on the success hungry fanbase in the province (everybody would jump on board the bandwagon)..Winning wipes out a lot of past mistakes, and not everybody thinks that Benning has done a bad job.

Making the playoffs is not a low bar, especially if the team demonstrates (that by finally having the depth and talent) that they could be an annual playoff team..Making the playoffs is the first step, and then as the core develops, you go to the next level (whether JB will be here for that is anybodys guess)..Do you expect the team to jump from bottom 10 to SC contender?

Benning has to say that the team will be 'competitive' and the goal is to make the playoffs (the last time he thought they could make the playoffs was 2016 ,and Aqualini has also said its a 'slow process' much in his tweets)...

He has not wasted the prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo or anybody else...As far as giving up the 1st (which I did not like),I believe he's trying to jumpstart the team into contention...An argument could also be made, that sitting back every year and collecting high picks (with no bold moves) could waste the the prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo...All of a sudden,you're verging on your 2nd rebuild (Florida,Colorado,Edmonton).

Anyway,..as a poster said earlier today..its sink or swim for this management group...and its all on the line this season.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Like isn’t this him saying the goal is to be competitive to make the playoffs. Isn’t this him saying the goal is playoffs?

“Our goal is to win games and be competitive to make the playoffs, that’s what we’re here for.”..2018
Thats the quote....my read is that the goal is to be a playoff team...yours could be different.

 

[Fire Benning]

Unless a team is basically on the record trying to be bad then it’s completely reasonable to assume they are putting what they envision is the best possible roster on the ice, it’s entirely fair to evaluate Benning through that lens.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

He said this in 2016

Iain MacIntyre: If losing doesn't get Canucks GM Jim Benning, the 'misinformation' will



He was "not very smart" in 2014 when he said he could turn this team around in a hurry, he was not very smart in 2016 when he said the above mentioned. And he is still not very smart today.

Benning has been ridiculed for several quotes.."Turning the team around in a hurry' I don't have a problem with..

Building an elite team in 4-5 years was really bad...especially making the Gudbranson trade, which was a 'now' move,right after saying that (which essentially betrays his statement of building a team for the future.)

 

[PetterssonSimp]

This guy is more legit. Have fun, I've wasted hours playing with this thing.

Tableau Public

This looks to be the exact source of materials Pete used.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

[QUOTE="Pip, post: 163602915, member: 149375"]So if we manage to someone squeeze into the playoffs next year Benning’s tenure somehow becomes a success? What a ridiculously low bar considering that half the league makes it every year. You have to evaluate what Benning has done, you can’t just ignore it and stand by this bs wait and see cop out.

Benning himself promised a quick turnaround and every year has stated the goal is the playoffs and has failed to deliver. The reason that nobody was/is expecting us to make the playoffs is because Benning has built a crappy team. That’s it. There’s no excuse for this level of incompetence from a process and results standpoint. Every year he stays he does more irreparable damage to this franchise and wastes more prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo. We’ve already been saddled by an additional albatross contract and have given up a first round pick coming off a bottom 10 year. Enough is enough with this defense.

.........................................................................................................



Bennings tenure' could' be looked at as a success' if' the Canucks have a turnaround year next year...I would base that on the success hungry fanbase in the province (everybody would jump on board the bandwagon)..Winning wipes out a lot of past mistakes, and not everybody thinks that Benning has done a bad job.

Making the playoffs is not a low bar, especially if the team demonstrates (that by finally having the depth and talent) that they could be an annual playoff team..Making the playoffs is the first step, and then as the core develops, you go to the next level (whether JB will be here for that is anybodys guess)..Do you expect the team to jump from bottom 10 to SC contender?

Benning has to say that the team will be 'competitive' and the goal is to make the playoffs (the last time he thought they could make the playoffs was 2016 ,and Aqualini has also said its a 'slow process' much in his tweets)...

He has not wasted the prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo or anybody else...As far as giving up the 1st (which I did not like),I believe he's trying to jumpstart the team into contention...An argument could also be made, that sitting back every year and collecting high picks (with no bold moves) could waste the the prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo...All of a sudden,you're verging on your 2nd rebuild (Florida,Colorado,Edmonton).

Anyway,..as a poster said earlier today..its sink or swim for this management group...and its all on the line this season.[/QUOTE]
Completely false narrative that everyone will jump on the bandwagon if the Canucks are near the playoffs. I’ve maintained that 2020 is a better draft overall and the Top10 much stronger than this past one. Missing out on one of these potentially elite talents is a detriment to the long term future success of the Canucks as they are at least 2 pieces, if not 4 pieces away from legitimately contending for a championship. A championship should be the only goal, playoffs mean nothing when you’re constantly out in the 1st or 2nd round. Just ask Minny fans what direction they want their team to take.

 

[forty47seven]

Very good post, which makes the Myers contract look pretty terrible. You basically indicated we paid $6M AAV for Ben Hutton with +/- 15 extra ES points per season.

Better than a materially worse defensively version of Hutton who plays some the easiest minutes in the NHL. That was the narrative. If Hutton could score 30 points there wouldn't be a debate about him being a top four. His contract is bad, sure. I hate giving any player term into their mid-thirties who isn't a first line talent. He's about market value for a second pair guy on July 1.

 

[F A N]

Just ask Minny fans what direction they want their team to take.

They want to go back in time just like Canucks fans?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

.........................................................................................................



Bennings tenure' could' be looked at as a success' if' the Canucks have a turnaround year next year...I would base that on the success hungry fanbase in the province (everybody would jump on board the bandwagon)..Winning wipes out a lot of past mistakes, and not everybody thinks that Benning has done a bad job.

Making the playoffs is not a low bar, especially if the team demonstrates (that by finally having the depth and talent) that they could be an annual playoff team..Making the playoffs is the first step, and then as the core develops, you go to the next level (whether JB will be here for that is anybodys guess)..Do you expect the team to jump from bottom 10 to SC contender?

Benning has to say that the team will be 'competitive' and the goal is to make the playoffs (the last time he thought they could make the playoffs was 2016 ,and Aqualini has also said its a 'slow process' much in his tweets)...

He has not wasted the prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo or anybody else...As far as giving up the 1st (which I did not like),I believe he's trying to jumpstart the team into contention...An argument could also be made, that sitting back every year and collecting high picks (with no bold moves) could waste the the prime years of EP/Boeser/Bo...All of a sudden,you're verging on your 2nd rebuild (Florida,Colorado,Edmonton).

Anyway,..as a poster said earlier today..its sink or swim for this management group...and its all on the line this season.

.....................................................................
Completely false narrative that everyone will jump on the bandwagon if the Canucks are near the playoffs. I’ve maintained that 2020 is a better draft overall and the Top10 much stronger than this past one. Missing out on one of these potentially elite talents is a detriment to the long term future success of the Canucks as they are at least 2 pieces, if not 4 pieces away from legitimately contending for a championship. A championship should be the only goal, playoffs mean nothing when you’re constantly out in the 1st or 2nd round. Just ask Minny fans what direction they want their team to take.[/QUOTE]

.....................................................................

From what I have observed from Canadian fans and media throughout the years....Team starts winning a bunch =Where's the parade route..?...Team starts losing a bunch= Where's the cliff?

Obviously not everyone will jump on the bandwagon, but if it becomes cool again to be seen at Canuck games at Rogers Arena
..The fair-weather fans will be all back in droves.. (probably staring at their phones and not even watching the game)

" We're at least one or two draft pieces away from being a SC contender ?"....Didnt the Oilers fanbase slurp that up for years..?...It just never happened, even when they drafted a generational player.

So playoffs mean nothing when you're out in the 1st or 2nd round.?..I don't subscribe to that at all..Teams with young cores don't just automatically become SC contenders, without skipping the primary steps....It takes a few years of hard knocks in the playoffs before they finally figure it out.

 

[Hit the post]

Hutton who plays some the easiest minutes in the NHL.

Didn't realize we had four other top 4 D that played the majority of tough minutes on the Canucks the past two seasons. Surprised we'd need a guy like Myers.

 

[VanJack]

We need a new poll. Is it win or bust for this Benning regime? Jimbo has no contract beyond this coming season. If the Canucks fail to make the playoffs next spring, does ownership bring out the broom? In that case would both Jimbo and Green be gonzo?

 

[Jack Burton]

Benning has been ridiculed for several quotes.."Turning the team around in a hurry' I don't have a problem with..

Building an elite team in 4-5 years was really bad...especially making the Gudbranson trade, which was a 'now' move,right after saying that (which essentially betrays his statement of building a team for the future.)

Hopes and dreams eh POM?

You better be correct because your stick is getting tired some.

And that's something coming from good old Jack Burton

Hope POM...it's all you've really had over the years.

 

[Jack Burton]

We need a new poll. Is it win or bust for this Benning regime? Jimbo has no contract beyond this coming season. If the Canucks fail to make the playoffs next spring, does ownership bring out the broom? In that case would both Jimbo and Green be gonzo?

No poll is needed.

Jim Benning is a complete moron.

Just ride out this season and then HOPE for the best.

Where the new Oilers son.

 

[forty47seven]

Didn't realize we had four other top 4 D that played the majority of tough minutes on the Canucks the past two seasons. Surprised we'd need a guy like Myers.

I was describing Myers there, not Hutton. Or the narrative of Myers. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Hutton didn't play the majority of tough minutes and Myers didn't play sheltered minutes.

 

[Jack Burton]

They want to go back in time just like Canucks fans?

Not at all.

They just fired their GM for incompetence.

Unlike us...their fanbase figured it out and called the owner out.

He reacted.