Management Thread. For a Few Dollars More: Gunslinger Edition, Pt II

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vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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not sure if this clears anythign up —

Team athletes, however, are covered by multiple policies. Leagues such as the NBA and the NHL have plans that blanket many of their players. For a league like the NHL, where injuries are prolific, this tactic is smart. These types of policies are based on a modest percentage of the players’ salaries. The NBA’s policy is only obligatory for a team’s top five players, essentially the starting line-up.

Insurance for professional athletes has to do as much with financial losses for a club as it does with physical pain endured for an injury. Policies typically won’t kick in until an athlete has been unavailable for at least a few months. Athletes sidelined for an entire season (think: Peyton Manning) cost their teams and insurers millions of dollars.

However, because athletes of the highest caliber carry private insurance, they themselves are covering their medical expenses and covering potential income losses. After Manning’s neck surgery, the Denver Broncos guaranteed the first two years of his contract; after that, his salary could have been voided if he hurt his neck again.

Now that Manning is retired, he is likely paying a disability policy. He famously stated that he expects to have debilitating medical problems as he ages, simply because of his playing days. Should the NFL or the Broncos pay for his treatment? As with any other employer-employee relationship, it can be argued that Manning is now responsible for his own medical care. With the continued research into post-career injuries, the responsibility for covering them will likely evolve.


football doesn't have guaranteed contracts afaict, so it might be a whole different ballgame, pun not intended
 
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DS7

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Oct 9, 2013
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I hope we dont buy out Sutter. We aint winning The cup this year anyways so why waste cap space for the 2021-22 season

Miller Pettersson Boeser
Pearson Horvat Gaudette
Leivo Sutter Virtanen
Motte Beagles MacEwan

Edler Schmidt
Hughes Rafferty
Rathbone Myers
Benn

Demko
Holtby
Even if we move Roussel like this scenario suggests, dunno if we have space to sign leivo, but i don't mind heading into the season with Sutter if we bury Ferland

Miller-Pettersson-Virtanen
Pearson-Horvat-Boeser
Roussel-Gaudette-Sutter
Motte-Beagle-MacEwan
Eriksson

Edler-Schmidt
Hughes-Myers
Rathbone-Benn
Rafferty
Juolevi

Demko
Holtby
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,844
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here's another one

Enes Kanter, a 26-year-old center for the New York Knicks, had a big decision to make this summer. His contract allowed him to either opt in for another year with a salary of $18.6 million, or opt out, and free himself to sign with another team right away.

He chose to stay and wait for a bigger contract next summer, but not without hedging his bets. With only one year of guaranteed money on his deal, Kanter told ESPN he bought an insurance policy that will pay him $20 million if he suffers a career-ending injury.

[...]

Top athletes buy three insurance products, said Tallarico, whose clients range from NHL prospects to top NBA players. Every athlete should have permanent total disability insurance, he said.

Permanent total disability pays out if an athlete can no longer play their sport. They receive a tax-free lump sum.
What kind of insurance do star athletes need?


in this case, it's not about guaranteeing your contract but hedging against losing future earnings that exceed the life of your contract
 
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Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
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Montreal, QC
not sure if this clears anythign up —

Team athletes, however, are covered by multiple policies. Leagues such as the NBA and the NHL have plans that blanket many of their players. For a league like the NHL, where injuries are prolific, this tactic is smart. These types of policies are based on a modest percentage of the players’ salaries. The NBA’s policy is only obligatory for a team’s top five players, essentially the starting line-up.

Insurance for professional athletes has to do as much with financial losses for a club as it does with physical pain endured for an injury. Policies typically won’t kick in until an athlete has been unavailable for at least a few months. Athletes sidelined for an entire season (think: Peyton Manning) cost their teams and insurers millions of dollars.

However, because athletes of the highest caliber carry private insurance, they themselves are covering their medical expenses and covering potential income losses. After Manning’s neck surgery, the Denver Broncos guaranteed the first two years of his contract; after that, his salary could have been voided if he hurt his neck again.

Now that Manning is retired, he is likely paying a disability policy. He famously stated that he expects to have debilitating medical problems as he ages, simply because of his playing days. Should the NFL or the Broncos pay for his treatment? As with any other employer-employee relationship, it can be argued that Manning is now responsible for his own medical care. With the continued research into post-career injuries, the responsibility for covering them will likely evolve.


football doesn't have guaranteed contracts afaict, so it might be a whole different ballgame, pun not intended
I mean, we’re also talking about different things in terms of covering the person and guaranteeing contracts.

like, Alex edler might have some insurance policy of his own that would pay him some money if he got hurt water skiing or something, but that’s not the same thing as guaranteeing his contract with the canucks.

it sounds like you were talking about players taking out some kind of separate fallback insurance that would guarantee their contract in cases where the contract for some reason ceased to be guaranteed by the nhl, and I’m not aware of anything like that that exists.

but who knows.

Edit: I posted this before seeing your follow up, which essentially says the same thing.
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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here's another one

Enes Kanter, a 26-year-old center for the New York Knicks, had a big decision to make this summer. His contract allowed him to either opt in for another year with a salary of $18.6 million, or opt out, and free himself to sign with another team right away.

He chose to stay and wait for a bigger contract next summer, but not without hedging his bets. With only one year of guaranteed money on his deal, Kanter told ESPN he bought an insurance policy that will pay him $20 million if he suffers a career-ending injury.

[...]

Top athletes buy three insurance products, said Tallarico, whose clients range from NHL prospects to top NBA players. Every athlete should have permanent total disability insurance, he said.

Permanent total disability pays out if an athlete can no longer play their sport. They receive a tax-free lump sum.
What kind of insurance do star athletes need?


in this case, it's not about guaranteeing your contract but hedging against losing future earnings that exceed the life of your contract
Any private policy against loss of earnings would likely only be triggered if he truly can't play, just like LTIR, so in practice, even if he has it it won't factor into a decision of whether to LTIR or retire completely. It only comes into play if he's so messed up he can't pass a physical, in which case the choice is obvious -- stay on LTIR and get paid until your contract ends. There really is no reason for him to retire unless he passes a physical but doesn't want to risk playing again, in which case, again, private insurance wouldn't pay out anyway.
 

rypper

21-12-05 it's finally over.
Dec 22, 2006
16,408
20,336
i always figured this was like how tina turner and taylor swift took out insurance on their legs, whatever the f that means.

Or how adult film star Kieran Lee took out a 1 million dollar policy on his... "money maker?"
 

rypper

21-12-05 it's finally over.
Dec 22, 2006
16,408
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What does that mean for Ferland? Sounds like he'll get paid either way and Aquaman is the one that gets dinged due to no insurance?

That's how I understand it.

When the Leafs traded Clarkson to the Blue Jackets for Nathan Horton, it was appealing to CBJ because Horton's contract was uninsured so they were paying the full amount, so they traded a player who wouldn't play to the leafs for someone who actually could play (albeit not very well.)

Meanwhile MLSE are a massive entity that could afford to pay out Horton's deal and would go on to utilise the cap space through LTIR.

Or like when the Blackhawks traded Hossa to the Coyotes, it was appealing to Arizona because his contract was mostly insured, so he sat on their LTIR but the team only paid out a very small portion of real money. The Blackhawks gained cap space and the Coyotes gained cap usage that cost them very little real money.
 

Jack Burton

Pro Tank Since 13
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Quick question for those talking players insurance...how does signing bonuses factor into the equations?

If a player goes on long term injury do they still get their July 1st signing bonus that they agreed to when signing that contract????

Benning has dished out like half a billion dollars during his tenure here but Aqua will pay out about 300 million of that on July 1st. Does insurance only cover player's salaries and will Aqua be on the hook for the rest?
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
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it sounds like you were talking about players taking out some kind of separate fallback insurance that would guarantee their contract in cases where the contract for some reason ceased to be guaranteed by the nhl, and I’m not aware of anything like that that exists.

If celebrities can insure their legs and butt, a hockey player can buy disability insurance. It doesn't "guarantee" their contract but you can buy disability insurance where you get a payout if you suffer an injury that prevents you from playing and therefore suffered a loss in earnings.
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
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If the Canucks want to say Ferland is a danger then I can’t imagine that bodes well for the nhl vs concussions suit.

Malhotra lost vision. Ferland has no limitations that diminish his ability to protect himself. That was the argument for Manny, no?

Why would it be any different than when concussions ended his last season with Carolina?

The Canucks knew this was an issue before signing him.
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
7,150
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Quick question for those talking players insurance...how does signing bonuses factor into the equations?

If a player goes on long term injury do they still get their July 1st signing bonus that they agreed to when signing that contract????

Benning has dished out like half a billion dollars during his tenure here but Aqua will pay out about 300 million of that on July 1st. Does insurance only cover player's salaries and will Aqua be on the hook for the rest?
Yes, the bonuses are still payable.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
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Montreal, QC
The thing with malhotra is that he was in the last year of his deal, so the Canuck could shut him down for the season and he was free to sign elsewhere the next season (which he did.)

Ferland with 3 years left is a much tougher sell
 

RebuildinVan

Registered User
Jun 25, 2017
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The thing with malhotra is that he was in the last year of his deal, so the Canuck could shut him down for the season and he was free to sign elsewhere the next season (which he did.)

Ferland with 3 years left is a much tougher sell
I still cant comprehend Benning giving him four years. Is this probably the least return on any contract signed here?
 

RandV

It's a wolf v2.0
Jul 29, 2003
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Visit site
here's another one

Enes Kanter, a 26-year-old center for the New York Knicks, had a big decision to make this summer. His contract allowed him to either opt in for another year with a salary of $18.6 million, or opt out, and free himself to sign with another team right away.

He chose to stay and wait for a bigger contract next summer, but not without hedging his bets. With only one year of guaranteed money on his deal, Kanter told ESPN he bought an insurance policy that will pay him $20 million if he suffers a career-ending injury.

[...]

Top athletes buy three insurance products, said Tallarico, whose clients range from NHL prospects to top NBA players. Every athlete should have permanent total disability insurance, he said.

Permanent total disability pays out if an athlete can no longer play their sport. They receive a tax-free lump sum.
What kind of insurance do star athletes need?


in this case, it's not about guaranteeing your contract but hedging against losing future earnings that exceed the life of your contract

And getting back to what I believe was the initial point this has to be a hefty expense on the players end. In this regard insurance is probably a lot like gambling, if you can think of it you can bet on/insure it but the house always wins. Players will get injured and cash out getting paid $x millions, which means the insurer needs to collect $x+ millions in premiums.

Personally I'm skeptical on why teams and players think 'insurance' is worthwhile. Insurance works well when you have millions buying into it and the odds of requiring it are low. From the perspective of a team/league when you have 10's/100's of athletes and the odds of a career ending injury are quite high the insurance premiums have to be brutal.
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,339
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
If he doesn't play another game, it will be exxactly $1M per GP for the Canucks. Off the top of my head I can't think of another candidate who would even be close.

EDIT: Ha.
Makes one ALMOST have fond memories of the man, the legend, the God..Tim Schaller. Who made Loui Eriksson look like an Art Ross trophy candidate by comparison. THAT useless.

But Gillis!
 

Jack Burton

Pro Tank Since 13
Oct 27, 2016
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If Ferland doesn't play another game, he'll have played 14 regular season and 2 playoff games.

He'll have been paid 875k per game. 2.8m per point.

Eriksson has played 245 regular season and 10 playoff games.

He'll have been paid approximately 141,176 per game. Approximately 404,494 per point.

Best 1 goal scorer in Canucks history :naughty:
 
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