Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[mossey3535]

By this type of absolutely basic logic Gretzky would have been the greatest coach in history. Hopefully management does not actually think this.

Ok but to be fair both Foote and Gonchar have coaching experience. Foote failed as a WHL head coach but that doesn't mean he isn't a good assistant. Gonchar has a lot of coaching and development experience with both Russia and the Penguins.

Also they fired one assistant and hired two, which would seem to me as a way to cover for the relative inexperience of Foote.

I don't know what the situation with Gonchar being "part time" is but I hope it works in terms of basically hiring an assistant coach who has a built-in mentor.

 

[F A N]

Ok but to be fair both Foote and Gonchar have coaching experience. Foote failed as a WHL head coach but that doesn't mean he isn't a good assistant. Gonchar has a lot of coaching and development experience with both Russia and the Penguins.

Also they fired one assistant and hired two, which would seem to me as a way to cover for the relative inexperience of Foote.

I don't know what the situation with Gonchar being "part time" is but I hope it works in terms of basically hiring an assistant coach who has a built-in mentor.

I actually love the Gonchar hire and Foote will probably be OK. They were both smart Dmen in their playing days. Saying Foote has coaching experience is a bit stretching it though. He was head coach for the Rockets for less than 2 years and that's pretty much it. That's less "coaching experience" than Jason King.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ok but to be fair both Foote and Gonchar have coaching experience. Foote failed as a WHL head coach but that doesn't mean he isn't a good assistant. Gonchar has a lot of coaching and development experience with both Russia and the Penguins.

Also they fired one assistant and hired two, which would seem to me as a way to cover for the relative inexperience of Foote.

I don't know what the situation with Gonchar being "part time" is but I hope it works in terms of basically hiring an assistant coach who has a built-in mentor.

Gonchar imo is a fantastic addition. He has a solid track record with Dmen working for the Pens.

I find it odd that he will apparently be working remotely. Why does there have to always be something?

 

[Intangibos]

Remote coaching is probably fine if done properly. It's not like Gonchar has to teach the players physical skills. Even if he did he could probably show videos and review video to see if players understand those concepts as these are still high level athletes who have played for a very long time. I assume most of his coaching will be more about the theory side of playing defence and the concepts that go into that, as well as analyzing what players are deficient in to direct them on what they should focus on.

Actually, I've thought for a long time that the idea the coach needs to be right there with the player to be able to work with them is a little antiquated. I think it could even hold some coaches and players back who could provide real deep insights into the game and the things holding those players back if they were given the chance to focus on that instead of standing around on the ice directing drills or watching the game on the bench.

If the Canucks do this right, I think it's could actually be very good. But, it's the Canucks so I'm ready to be disappointed when it turns out they implement it in a very stupid Canucks way.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I’ll take Lebrun’s opinion over a random, arrogant HF poster who seems to be of the ilk that supported the last trash management regime.

I don't think it was Lebrun's opinion, it was what one agent said to him, right? So already it's speculation, at the very least beyond that person's stable of clients. Then we also know it's hyperbole. You really think a 6 million dollar player turns down 7 million a year because it's not 7.5?

Now, the point stands that if we have to pay any premium that's potentially crippling and speaks to how our management/ownership shitshow is viewed around the league. But nodding your head along with the idea that we will be paying a 25% increase across the board is just needless masochism. Up there with the people who chime in every time EP comes up with, "His agent said he wants to win! He's gone for sure!"

It's possible Petey leaves, but acting like it's a forgone conclusion is just harming yourself emotionally for no reason. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he stays.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Is that why Aquilini and Rutherford went to Vegas for Tocchet when coaching decisions are a GMs job?

This is just naive. You don't think a team President has input? Think Lamariello left it to Dubas to hire coaches when they were together in Toronto?

It's also not uncommon for an owner to be involved in a coaching hire. I think it's fair for a prospective hire to have questions answered immediately that only the owners can answer with impunity.

 

[quat]

Colour me surprised that you're not bitching about everything/everyone.....?..winsome,loathesome

Aqualini is not entirely the villain here..All the dysfunctionallity is not squarely on him.

Might be time for you to maybe investigate a bit before coming to radical conclusions there,bro…

Hey, I'm honestly sorry if I've hurt your feelings with any of my comments here. My intention may be to rub some of you the wrong way, but it's chat board stuff.

As for the Aqua-berries, of course not everything is squarely on him. His family is losing a crap load of money on this team due in no small part because of what seems to be his influence. Given all the evidence and spending, I can't for the life of me understand how this guy gets called cheap. At the same time, I completely understand the frustration posters have with the organization, because it's run very poorly, so if Fredo gets tarred unfairly with a few brush strokes in a chat, who cares?

I'm bitching here because the present state of this club has been telegraphed for years. It's like watching an accident in slow motion, where you actually care about those getting hurt. I'm a slow learner and don't like change. I was pissed when Burke was replaced with Nonis. I thought Nonis should have been given another year. I didn't understand letting Gillis go, but got behind Benning because I thought maybe he'd get a more favorable turn at the table with the league. It took me a few years to finally clue in that Benning and Linden were incompetent and when they re-upped Benning I stopped posting here (I did lurk) until Benning was fired. I couldn't abide the support management from so many posters, media and talking heads around the league. I absolutely lacked the patience to argue endlessly about how things were all going to be fine.

Resigning Miller broke something with my support for this new group ... and while I understood why Boeser was given another chance, I'm gutted that he's doing nothing to show that he was worth his contract. So, now I'm part of the impatient group, in that I just want intelligent people making intelligent moves. I don't expect everything to work out, but at least the goal should make sense, even if they fall short.

Even with all this, when I watch a game, I can't help but want them to win. After the last decade, I am quick to get bitter, and the tag "winsome, loathsome" is a play on "win some, lose some", so just yes, a bit of a frustrated joke on being a fan.

I make fun of your posts because your hockey takes, particularly during the Benning years, were imo, awful. No matter how often you were proven wrong, you rarely if ever admitted to being wrong. Plus you called out a lot of posters for not being fans because they didn't support Benning, which is pretty lame.

I think my negativity with this team is well earned, but I'll listen to what you've shared here and see if I can tone it down.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

As for the Aqua-berries, of course not everything is squarely on him. His family is losing a crap load of money on this team due in no small part because of what seems to be his influence. Given all the evidence and spending, I can't for the life of me understand how this guy gets called cheap. At the same time, I completely understand the frustration posters have with the organization, because it's run very poorly, so if Fredo gets tarred unfairly with a few brush strokes in a chat, who cares?

They bought the team for ~150-250million.

The team is now worth ~900million.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Boudreau gets this years full pay no matter what..Its a guaranteed contract..That had nothing to do with the timing /delay of his firing.

Didn’t it? The delay may have been caused by reluctance - of course he gets his salary regardless. I suspect he finally signed off on firing him as the situation was just unsustainable, but this could explain why this whole Boudreau saga played out the way it did.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Boudreau gets this years full pay no matter what..Its a guaranteed contract..That had nothing to do with the timing /delay of his firing.

Disagree.

 

[Canucker]

I'm not sure why there is so much enthusiasm around the Gonchar hire? Sure, it sounds like he's had some success with Pittsburgh but I don't know how well zoom teaching defense works, I would think you would want to be on the ice with these guys on a regular basis going over details...details that need to be shown and not talked about. What we currently have needs serious attention, not casual, long distance tweaking.

 

[lawrence]

The day we lose horvat and I don’t care how good the trade is, is the lowest point in Canuck history by far.

 

[Canucker]

The day we lose horvat and I don’t care how good the trade is, is the lowest point in Canuck history by far.

I think people said the same thing about losing Trevor Linden...that turned into Bertuzzi, McCabe and Jarkko Ruutu, which turned into Daniel Sedin and Roberto Luongo and then Markstrom and then nothing thanks to Benning...however, losing Bo Horvat is unfortunate but if the trade is good, it will ease the pain. Trading Bo Horvat will NOT be the lowest point in Canuck history...not even close.

 

[VanJack]

At some point, when you consistently flirt with salary-cap hell as the Canucks did under Benning, the piper has to be paid. And that price is basically being forced to trade Horvat.

My only complaint was that they signed Boeser and Miller first, and then ran out of money for Horvat.....the way I see it, Horvat is twice as valuable as either of those two guys.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Yea there is maybe some reason for JR to go since they have a history. It is part of a GMs job to hire/fire coaches and Alvin didnt even go, but our for sure non meddling owner had to tag along for some reason

This is just naive. You don't think a team President has input? Think Lamariello left it to Dubas to hire coaches when they were together in Toronto?

It's also not uncommon for an owner to be involved in a coaching hire. I think it's fair for a prospective hire to have questions answered immediately that only the owners can answer with impunity.

So if the Chairman and President are both needed to hire a HC...when it comes time to firing the coach does the GM have the authority or not? And if not what role does the GM actually play?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

The day we lose horvat and I don’t care how good the trade is, is the lowest point in Canuck history by far.

Mark Messier signing. By far.

 

[Hit the post]

They bought the team for ~150-250million.

The team is now worth ~900million.

That's only part of it. Look at all the lucrative property around Rogers (not to mention the arena itself - debt free when his daddy let him play with his shiny new toy) values.

 

[TruGr1t]

Liars.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Mark Messier signing. By far.

At the time it seemed like it, but it was over in a couple of years.

This current decade is far far worse for me. By a mile.

 

[RutherPlan]

if Canucks management want to win in this market they have to control the narrative, do that by pouring resources into story telling and content creation. It's pretty evident since the Gillis era, that national media has no problem dunking on the Canucks when there is an opportunity.

 

[DS7]

Liars.

JR and PA lying? or Seravelli lying? haha

 

[bossram]

Liars.

Of course that is the messaging that JR/Allvin would want leaked.

And wait a minute...I thought Canucks' policy was to turf anyone who leaked anything to the media? Isn't that why they had to fire Doerrie? Who leaked this?

 

[Nucker101]

Liars.

Embrace the circus

 

[God]

Of course that is the messaging that JR/Allvin would want leaked.

And wait a minute...I thought Canucks' policy was to turf anyone who leaked anything to the media? Isn't that why they had to fire Doerrie? Who leaked this?

surely you can see why management would want to control what gets leaked to the media instead of a low level employee, right?

 

[wonton15]

Liars.

At this point, Allvin is a straight up liar. He does it to our face then leaks things behind our back. Give me maximum chaos at this point.