Proposal: Malkin vs Bergeron / Marchand

[Empoleon8771]

Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel

Would be filthier

And saying Bergeron would be a winger is disingenious... you know he'd be the 1C on the PK and would be transitioned to center in a flash if the situation warranted it, with Hornqvist taking his spot. That's huge flexibility. It would be like putting Zetterberg on Crosby's wing in 2008.

Nah, I'd definitely rather have my top-6 than that one. Bonino as a 2C isn't good enough, my top-6 is definitely better.

 

[thedoughboy]

Bergeron > Malkin at this point IMO


Malkin IS injury prone, one season over 70 games played since 09/10 whereas Bergeron's least amount was 73 in 09/10 (includes simply doubling how many GP they did in the lockout)

Also makes nearly 3 million less

Also will probably age better considering his defensive play will continue to be good while both of their offensive games will start to degrade. (look at hossa for an example)

And Marchand, while a UFA, is worth a damn high amount.

 

[thedoughboy]

Everyone makes it seem like Bergeron/Marchand don't have any health concerns of their own.

Missed games since 2010/2011 (marchands first full season)


Malkin- 123

Bergeron- 14

Marchand- 24



When begeron has missed 10% as many games and marchand has missed 20% as many games as malkin, you can safely say malkin is by far the most injury prone of the three. So yeah, they don't in comparison.

 

[mpp9]

I'd certainly do it for both players from a Pens pov.

For Bergeron straight up? Na. Malkin's a ppg player with little support on his line. Bergeron's not close to that in his best seasons while playing with a great talent like Marchand.

They're not in the same tier. I'll take 60 regular season games and a full playoffs of Malkin over Bergeron.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like defensive play gets seriously overrated on this site. Goal scoring is a much more important trait to have than preventing goals, you can't win games by just preventing goals. I don't necessarily think there's a big difference between Malkin and Bergeron at this point, but I'd definitely say that Malkin is ahead of Bergeron as of right now. Not by much, but I think he's clearly ahead right now. That's not talking about value, because Bergeron is definitely more valuable than Malkin.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Something around Malkin vs Bergeron and Marchand could it be possible?

Pittsburgh get: the Crosby/Bergeron/Marchand line
Boston get: a Allstar #1 center

Who adds?

after marchands extension the 2 bruins cost around 14 mill per season

the difference in cap hit makes this deal very difficult

personally... i value bergeron leadership as boston rebuilds. i think id keep him... id probably move marchand but not for an established player. boston should be rebuilding and should be adding young dmen

 

[bert]

Pittsburgh adds. Boston already has a #1 all-star center in bergeron and a top end LW in Marchand. On top of all that it's been over 4 years since Malkin has played even 70 games.

I wouldnt trade Bergeron 1 for 1 for Malkin at this point. He is so disinterested all the time. Soft selfish plays all over the ice, no doubt about his talent but I dont see any drive.

 

[DearDiary]

I wouldnt trade Bergeron 1 for 1 for Malkin at this point. He is so disinterested all the time. Soft selfish plays all over the ice, no doubt about his talent but I dont see any drive.

Look at who Malkin plays with, every scoring chance needs to be created by him and even then; his wingers aren't good enough to finish. Next season he'll be looking at a Kunitz who should be retiring and Rust. Neither likely to get more than 30 points. Malkin gets no help and his hard work usually leads to nothing

 

[VoynovsParoleOfficer]

I would not under any circumstance trade Malkin for Bergeron and i am shaking my head at everyone who is saying that they wouldnt do that straight up.. I am a huge Bergeron fan and id argue to this day that if both him and toews were the same age i would take Bergeron over him on my team but were talking about Evgeni Malkin, this guy has had ONE season in the NHL with under a point per game, bergeron has NEVER had over a point per game. I understand that Bergeron and his defensive prowess make him a very valuable player and that Malkins inability to stay totally healthy is concerning but when this guy is healthy he is a top 3 player and as a result he has a Hart, 2 Art rosses, 2 cups and a conn smythe. Im a Gm im taking Malking everytime in a 1 for 1. everytime

 

[hawksrule]

I'd prefer Bergeron to Malkin.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Two things. First off, Marchand would have to come with a new contract (or at least be willing to sign one in PIT). But if he's willing to sign a contract in Boston, why would Boston trade a good top 6 winger and a great #2C for Malkin? They already have very good center depth with Krejci and Bergeron. The difference (for BOS) between Malkin and Bergeron isn't Marchand. And while PIT adds, it's not like they're overflowing with assets that they could add that would make sense for either side.

Secondly, Pittsburgh wouldn't get a Crosby/Bergeron/Marchand line, as they (just like Boston) need Bergeron to be their #2C. Bonino (who doesn't have a contract past this year - and who PIT would be hard pressed to afford if they had Marchand at 6-7m) who was great in the playoffs, is not a #2C. That HBK line was amazing, because he had an allstar winger in Kessel there. But as an every day thing, there's serious doubts among Pen fans that Bonino can play the #2C role full time.

So yeah, Boston says hell no unless PIT adds something significant (which they likely can't afford) and PIT says yes until they see what BOS would want them to add, where they'd then say hell no.

Bergeron is not a 2C. Any thought otherwise is just false.

 

[Dying Alive]

I wouldnt trade Bergeron 1 for 1 for Malkin at this point. He is so disinterested all the time. Soft selfish plays all over the ice, no doubt about his talent but I dont see any drive.

Malkin is not disinterested, nor is he selfish. Pens fans actually wish he was MORE selfish. Everything about this post is blatantly untrue.

I would not under any circumstance trade Malkin for Bergeron and i am shaking my head at everyone who is saying that they wouldnt do that straight up.. I am a huge Bergeron fan and id argue to this day that if both him and toews were the same age i would take Bergeron over him on my team but were talking about Evgeni Malkin, this guy has had ONE season in the NHL with under a point per game, bergeron has NEVER had over a point per game. I understand that Bergeron and his defensive prowess make him a very valuable player and that Malkins inability to stay totally healthy is concerning but when this guy is healthy he is a top 3 player and as a result he has a Hart, 2 Art rosses, 2 cups and a conn smythe. Im a Gm im taking Malking everytime in a 1 for 1. everytime

The only reason a Malkin for Bergeron one-for-one isn't being laughed off the internet is because the time Geno misses makes it seem like they're close in terms of production. In terms of PPG, Geno blows Bergeron out of the water. And I like Bergeron.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Bergeron is not a 2C. Any thought otherwise is just false.

bergeron skates in a 2 role... traditionally gets less icetime than krejci... traditionally doesnt go head to head with a checking line

malkin also is a 2 center

doesnt mean malkin or bergeron arent among the 10 best centers in hockey... just means they both play on their teams second line

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Malkin is not disinterested, nor is he selfish. Pens fans actually wish he was MORE selfish. Everything about this post is blatantly untrue.




The only reason a Malkin for Bergeron one-for-one isn't being laughed off the internet is because the time Geno misses makes it seem like they're close in terms of production. In terms of PPG, Geno blows Bergeron out of the water. And I like Bergeron.

more and more we learn the myth about toews having better pr than bergeron.

as bergeron wins his selkes... as he scores with toews... as he excels on the world stage... it gets more difficult to defend an argument that toews is much better than bergeron.

now toews is sometimes defended as the best player in nhl... ive seen people argue he is better than crosby...

its very very very subjective

yzerman scored 140 points... and people said he wasnt a winner... than he scored 100 while checking and people called him a god

those extra 40 points didnt matter

how many points does bergeron leave on the table?

bergeron is skated head to head against the top scorers in the nhl... and is a plus player. bergeron outscored pretty much anyone he plays. he shuts them down and then scores against them to add insult to injury

malkin might be one of the top 5 best offensive players in the game. but i still take bergeron over him if im rebuilding a team... and if malkin is slightly more valuable, that contract kills the advantage

its not a deal i like for boston... and if marchand is included its not a deal pittsbugh can afford

 

[Dying Alive]

more and more we learn the myth about toews having better pr than bergeron.

as bergeron wins his selkes... as he scores with toews... as he excels on the world stage... it gets more difficult to defend an argument that toews is much better than bergeron.

now toews is sometimes defended as the best player in nhl... ive seen people argue he is better than crosby...

its very very very subjective

yzerman scored 140 points... and people said he wasnt a winner... than he scored 100 while checking and people called him a god

those extra 40 points didnt matter

how many points does bergeron leave on the table?

bergeron is skated head to head against the top scorers in the nhl... and is a plus player. bergeron outscored pretty much anyone he plays. he shuts them down and then scores against them to add insult to injury

malkin might be one of the top 5 best offensive players in the game. but i still take bergeron over him if im rebuilding a team... and if malkin is slightly more valuable, that contract kills the advantage

its not a deal i like for boston... and if marchand is included its not a deal pittsbugh can afford

I can think of at least one person he doesn't outscore, but there's no sense in belaboring this argument since it sounds like everyone is happy with the player they have. It's nice when things work out like that.

 

[DearDiary]

more and more we learn the myth about toews having better pr than bergeron.

as bergeron wins his selkes... as he scores with toews... as he excels on the world stage... it gets more difficult to defend an argument that toews is much better than bergeron.

now toews is sometimes defended as the best player in nhl... ive seen people argue he is better than crosby...

its very very very subjective

yzerman scored 140 points... and people said he wasnt a winner... than he scored 100 while checking and people called him a god

those extra 40 points didnt matter

how many points does bergeron leave on the table?

bergeron is skated head to head against the top scorers in the nhl... and is a plus player. bergeron outscored pretty much anyone he plays. he shuts them down and then scores against them to add insult to injury

malkin might be one of the top 5 best offensive players in the game. but i still take bergeron over him if im rebuilding a team... and if malkin is slightly more valuable, that contract kills the advantage

its not a deal i like for boston... and if marchand is included its not a deal pittsbugh can afford

If you're rebuilding a team, you choose a defensive player over one that can carry a line by himself?

Per 82 games over their careers, Bergeron averages 62 points and Malkin 97 points. 35 point difference and that's with Malkin always playing injured and with poor linemates.

 

[Absurdity]

If you're rebuilding a team, you choose a defensive player over one that can carry a line by himself?

Per 82 games over their careers, Bergeron averages 62 points and Malkin 97 points. 35 point difference and that's with Malkin always playing injured and with poor linemates.

Yes because when you are rebuilding and drafting in the top 10, you have a better chance at drafting a very good offensive player that plays C/W over a Selke-caliber center.

 

[bert]

Look at who Malkin plays with, every scoring chance needs to be created by him and even then; his wingers aren't good enough to finish. Next season he'll be looking at a Kunitz who should be retiring and Rust. Neither likely to get more than 30 points. Malkin gets no help and his hard work usually leads to nothing

What about last night? Soft back hand sauce plays into team canada D men shins, this has nothing to do with talent. He is one of if not the most talented player in the NHL but he mails it in all the time while Bergy is a positive all over the ice in every situation. I believe in intagibles in the room, throughout the organization. It trickles down.

If you're rebuilding a team, you choose a defensive player over one that can carry a line by himself?

Per 82 games over their careers, Bergeron averages 62 points and Malkin 97 points. 35 point difference and that's with Malkin always playing injured and with poor linemates.

Thats great, but they are at different points in their careers now. The descrepancy in offense isnt nearly as large now.

 

[hamzarocks]

What about last night? Soft back hand sauce plays into team canada D men shins, this has nothing to do with talent. He is one of if not the most talented player in the NHL but he mails it in all the time while Bergy is a positive all over the ice in every situation. I believe in intagibles in the room, throughout the organization. It trickles down.



Thats great, but they are at different points in their careers now.

He sure wasn't mailing it in when he was carrying his linemates around in the playoffs. Talert wise geno is better than bergeron and cup wise he has has exceeded him. Funny isn't it, a disinterested player can be such a vital part to 2 cups and 3 final appearances.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

If you're rebuilding a team, you choose a defensive player over one that can carry a line by himself?

Per 82 games over their careers, Bergeron averages 62 points and Malkin 97 points. 35 point difference and that's with Malkin always playing injured and with poor linemates.

i think marcel dionne probably outscored jacques lemaire by more than that...im going to guess berni nichols probably outscored ron francais by something in this neighborhood... maybe not as bad? i think craig janney probably outscored steve kasper by a similar amount.

i dont watch every game malkin plays... lord knows he has impressed the hell out of me at times. hes been an mvp... a scoring champ...

hes also been a lightning rod for critism. ive seen hundreds of posts over the years... whats wrong with malkin? why is malkin struggling? why cant malkin do more?

i remember how bill watters used to go on and on with insults about malkins ability to perform on a regular basis

none of what im saying dismisses the fact malkin scores a ton of points. maybe his supporters say hes hurt by not having good linemates? maybe his distractors say crosby takes the best checkers and number 1 dmen away?

malkin isnt told to be the first man back defensively... isnt thrown on the ice for every defensive zone start... isnt told to shadow mcdavid or stamkos or tarvares...

he is what he is... a very very very dominant scorer.

dont see why bruin fans would want to trade bergeron for him though... the critisms you hear about malkin are never said about bergeron. bruin fans dont make proposals to get rid of bergeron... we dont ask whats wrong with bergeron... we dont ask why cant bergeron do more?

malkin might very well be a more talented player but bruin fans would rather keep bergeron as a better leader... a better guy to build around... a better bruin.

and it kind of insults us when someone else says its laughable

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

He sure wasn't mailing it in when he was carrying his linemates around in the playoffs. Talert wise geno is better than bergeron and cup wise he has has exceeded him. Funny isn't it, a disinterested player can be such a vital part to 2 cups and 3 final appearances.

if he is vital... and yes i agree

and he can carry a team when he applies himself... and yes i agree

arent you defeating your argument?

i mean... how do you explain the other times when he didnt accomplish anything and his team rolled over and died?

isnt this the point you are trying to debate and doesnt your example work against you?

kind of like how bruin fans felt about joe thornton... or tyler seguin... we knew those guys could turn it on and have an mvp season... the talent was there. we just didnt like how it flickered on and off at a moments notice.

bruin management... bruin fan base... puts a high premium on consistent effort above high end skill. weve had 4 of the top 20 scorers in the nhl on our team in the past 7 years or so... joe thornton... blake wheeler... phil kessel... tyler seguin... amazing ppg scorers... amazing talents...

but we traded all of them because we didnt like the lack of consistent effort in all 3 zones

bruin mentality is historically established... we dont trade studs like bergeron for offensive wizzards even if they are evgeny malkov

 

[Pia8988]

Two things. First off, Marchand would have to come with a new contract (or at least be willing to sign one in PIT). But if he's willing to sign a contract in Boston, why would Boston trade a good top 6 winger and a great #2C for Malkin? They already have very good center depth with Krejci and Bergeron. The difference (for BOS) between Malkin and Bergeron isn't Marchand. And while PIT adds, it's not like they're overflowing with assets that they could add that would make sense for either side.

Secondly, Pittsburgh wouldn't get a Crosby/Bergeron/Marchand line, as they (just like Boston) need Bergeron to be their #2C. Bonino (who doesn't have a contract past this year - and who PIT would be hard pressed to afford if they had Marchand at 6-7m) who was great in the playoffs, is not a #2C. That HBK line was amazing, because he had an allstar winger in Kessel there. But as an every day thing, there's serious doubts among Pen fans that Bonino can play the #2C role full time.

So yeah, Boston says hell no unless PIT adds something significant (which they likely can't afford) and PIT says yes until they see what BOS would want them to add, where they'd then say hell no.

Bergeron is a #2C?

 

[Penske]

Bergeron is a #2C?

That's where he'd play on the Penguins.

 

[Bad Puck Bounce]

Two things. First off, Marchand would have to come with a new contract (or at least be willing to sign one in PIT). But if he's willing to sign a contract in Boston, why would Boston trade a good top 6 winger and a great #2C for Malkin? They already have very good center depth with Krejci and Bergeron. The difference (for BOS) between Malkin and Bergeron isn't Marchand. And while PIT adds, it's not like they're overflowing with assets that they could add that would make sense for either side.

Secondly, Pittsburgh wouldn't get a Crosby/Bergeron/Marchand line, as they (just like Boston) need Bergeron to be their #2C. Bonino (who doesn't have a contract past this year - and who PIT would be hard pressed to afford if they had Marchand at 6-7m) who was great in the playoffs, is not a #2C. That HBK line was amazing, because he had an allstar winger in Kessel there. But as an every day thing, there's serious doubts among Pen fans that Bonino can play the #2C role full time.

So yeah, Boston says hell no unless PIT adds something significant (which they likely can't afford) and PIT says yes until they see what BOS would want them to add, where they'd then say hell no.

Stopped reading here.

 

[Penske]

Stopped reading here.

I bet you kept reading ;P