Make some bold predictions for this season

[BlueDream]

I very strongly disagree with this sentiment. Defense is the most important position in professional hockey by a long shot. A mediocre goalie is the easiest thing in pro hockey to cover for, even in the playoffs. Chicago won with Niemi. Philly got the the final with Lieghton. Ottawa regularly went deep with Anderson. Murray has 2 Stanley Cups. Elite teams don't need great goalies because they possess the puck on the other end of ice for the vast majority of the game. That starts with a great defense. The offense putting in pucks consistently makes goalie fairly inconsequential. That doesn't mean you can have Scott Foster as your starter, but having someone in the bottom half of the league in goaltending ability doesn't really matter if the team around him is Cup quality.

"By a long shot." Pittsburgh lost their #1 defenseman and still won the Cup with a very average group. You need to score goals to win, offense is easily more important than defense. Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc. Past Cup winners show you need a legitimate offense to win.

Put a top defense (Nashville) against a top offense (Pittsburgh). We saw the results.

Vegas made it to the Cup with who as their #1 defenseman? Tampa is considered the top contender now because their offense is loaded. San Jose made it to the Cup because they had a very deep offense. The teams that are going to the Cup have more similarities up front than they do on the back end. It's not much of a debate.

If defense was more important than offense or goaltending, the Blues would have had much better results by now. If a defense with Pietrangelo, prime Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk etc flamed out because the rest of the team sucked, it's pretty clear what the answer is. They haven't done anything, because they've lacked the 2 main things you need. Elliott/Allen/Halak/Miller aren't the answer, and they lacked scoring threats.

People use the Niemi from 2010 example all the time. He was way better back then with Chicago than he is now. Just look at his stats. He was pretty solid up until 2015. Then he went way downhill.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

In the last ten years, it's definitely been offense over defense in the playoffs. Two solid centers and goaltending seems to be the main keys. Pittsburgh has Malkin, Crosby, Fleury and Murray. LA had Kopitar, Carter, and Quick. Boston had Thomas, with Savard/Bergeron and Krejci in their primes. Washington had Backstrom, Kuznetsov, and Holtby. Chicago is about the only outlier with only Toews. The other thing all those teams had in common outside of 1 year w/ Pittsburgh is a true #1 D that contributes a lot to the offense. Doughty, Keith, Letang, Chara, and Carlson all definitely helped their teams on the offensive side of the puck. That's just the winners.

The runner ups, Tampa with Johnson, Stamkos, and Hedman, and San Jose with Thorton, Couture, and Burns, had the dual center threat with defensemen contributing. Vegas didn't really have the dual center threat, but they had 4 lines all playing together, but without a true superstar up front to put them over the top. Nashville had the stellar defense and goaltending, but again, lacked a superstar forward. Forsberg is about as close as they can get. New York is a bit of a stretch, to say dual center with Stepan and Brassard as their top 2, but they had McDonagh and Lundqvist.

The Blues have a better team on paper right now then some of those runner-ups, but don't really have a better one than any of the past 10 winners. It depends on how this team gels if they can get over the hump and if Jake doesn't falter mid-season.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I still contend that we need another scoring winger - especially a RHS for the power play to make us on par with last winners. As long as Allen doesn’t implode, we are fine in net. Brining in a guy like Panarin would go a long way to making goaltending obsolete.

Kyrou could go a long way to addressing that either this or next year. If we are going to be moving major assets, I’d target Panarin since his cap hit for this season is lower than what Stone’s will be, and we wouldn’t be trading Parayko since CBJ doesn’t need him. He’d be he perfect deadline addition once we have a better idea what we have in Kyrou for this year, Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson, and CBJ and the rest of the league would be more willing to take on some cap.

 

[Majorityof1]

I still contend that we need another scoring winger - especially a RHS for the power play to make us on par with last winners. As long as Allen doesn’t implode, we are fine in net. Brining in a guy like Panarin would go a long way to making goaltending obsolete.

Kyrou could go a long way to addressing that either this or next year. If we are going to be moving major assets, I’d target Panarin since his cap hit for this season is lower than what Stone’s will be, and we wouldn’t be trading Parayko since CBJ doesn’t need him. He’d be he perfect deadline addition once we have a better idea what we have in Kyrou for this year, Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson, and CBJ and the rest of the league would be more willing to take on some cap.

If you can say the bolded, then I will counter with, as long as Sanford, Foley, Kyrou, Blias play like Wheeler, Marchand, Kane and Kucherov we won't need to bring in another winger. And if bringing in Panarin makes our goaltending woes obsolete, then bringing in the next Zezina caliber goalie would make our winger issues obsolete as well. Both are about as likely too.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Even after the disaster that was last season, we still finished top-8 GA/G. If Allen can be any better than he was last year, coupled with our current lineup, we should be fine. Adding in Panarin seals that for me. Our biggest problem last year was that we didn’t have enough offense in the second half to sustain wins on Allen’s normal numbers - let alone his January numbers. We were bottom-8 in GF/G. Our current lineup should change that drastically. Adding Panarin changes that even further to the point where Allen’s January numbers still might not be enough to sink the team - although he might test that.

There’s a difference between “we just need him not to implode” and “we need him to be at least top-25”. Allen was even with Cam Ward on SV% last year and was only .004 better than Mrazek for 45th best in the league. Allen’s GAA was better than Lindqvist, Holtby, Murray, etc. and we would have a better combined defense and offense than those teams. I don’t think it’s a bold prediction to say that adding Panarin would mean that even if we got last year’s Jake Allen we would be fine in at least the regular season since last year we missed the playoffs by a game with a way inferior team. There’s hyperbole and then there’s your comment.

Edit: Additionally, Vezina goalies can only cover for so much, and only for so long from year to year. No goalie wins you a game - they only help you to not lose it, and that’s when it’s their year. Forwards are far more consistent.

Either way, I think an investment in Panarin is better bang-for-buck than signing a guy like Bob, Price, etc. Obviously it depends on how low we get that AAV, but since all I hear is “we need cap space to get a goalie”, or “we should get a goalie” without ever suggesting an actual player, I’m willing to say that the fact Panarin is actually available makes him more likely to acquire than this mystery goalie.

If there’s a goalie out there that could be as impactful as Panarin for under 7.5M (that’s as far as I’d be willing to go on any goalie given their volatility), then I’m all ears, but I’d rank the likelihood of finding such a goalie somewhere between acquiring Panarin and having all of the scrubs you listed performing like All-Stars.

In summary:

Panarin + Allen’s worst >> league average goalie and no Panarin.

 

[Majorityof1]

Even after the disaster that was last season, we still finished top-8 GA/G. If Allen can be any better than he was last year, coupled with our current lineup, we should be fine. Adding in Panarin seals that for me. Our biggest problem last year was that we didn’t have enough offense in the second half to sustain wins on Allen’s normal numbers - let alone his January numbers. We were bottom-8 in GF/G. Our current lineup should change that drastically. Adding Panarin changes that even further to the point where Allen’s January numbers still might not be enough to sink the team - although he might test that.

There’s a difference between “we just need him not to implode” and “we need him to be at least top-25”. Allen was even with Cam Ward on SV% last year and was only .004 better than Mrazek for 45th best in the league. Allen’s GAA was better than Lindqvist, Holtby, Murray, etc. and we would have a better combined defense and offense than those teams. I don’t think it’s a bold prediction to say that adding Panarin would mean that even if we got last year’s Jake Allen we would be fine in at least the regular season since last year we missed the playoffs by a game with a way inferior team. There’s hyperbole and then there’s your comment.

Edit: Additionally, Vezina goalies can only cover for so much, and only for so long from year to year. No goalie wins you a game - they only help you to not lose it, and that’s when it’s their year. Forwards are far more consistent.

Either way, I think an investment in Panarin is better bang-for-buck than signing a guy like Bob, Price, etc. Obviously it depends on how low we get that AAV, but since all I hear is “we need cap space to get a goalie”, or “we should get a goalie” without ever suggesting an actual player, I’m willing to say that the fact Panarin is actually available makes him more likely to acquire than this mystery goalie.

If there’s a goalie out there that could be as impactful as Panarin for under 7.5M (that’s as far as I’d be willing to go on any goalie given their volatility), then I’m all ears, but I’d rank the likelihood of finding such a goalie somewhere between acquiring Panarin and having all of the scrubs you listed performing like All-Stars.

In summary:

Panarin + Allen’s worst >> league average goalie and no Panarin.

Sure completely gloss over the fact we had Hutton playing close to half the season putting up Vezina caliber numbers. That had nothing to do with our team GAA. Nor does ignoring what we would have to give up, both in trade and in terms of cap space for Panarin, in your equation. The equation is: Panarin + Allen << Schwartz + competent goalie + $4 million in extra cap space

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Sure completely gloss over the fact we had Hutton playing close to half the season putting up Vezina caliber numbers. That had nothing to do with our team GAA. Nor does ignoring what we would have to give up, both in trade and in terms of cap space for Panarin, in your equation. The equation is: Panarin + Allen << Schwartz + competent goalie + $4 million in extra cap space

Panarin doesn’t require Schwartz at the deadline, but we can gloss over that if you’d like.

Johnson might not put up Hutton numbers, but that doesn’t change the fact that our offense was worse than our overall goaltending last year, and since we already have a much better offense, I think the team is capable of winning one more game than last year even with Allen’s worst.

Find me another Hutton and we’ll talk - otherwise that goalie is going to cost more than they are worth, and Panarin becomes the better bargain and is actually available. Even bringing back Hutton doesn’t guarantee similar success when you factor in goalie volatility and the amount of games he would be playing when replacing Jake, but I suppose if that goalie is coming as cheap as Hutton, we could in theory have both Panarin and Hutton at the TDL. Eithe way, unless Allen is worse this year than last year, we should be fine to make the playoffs.

There’s no reason to argue that we should be refusing to improve the team in other ways in order to hold cap space for a mystery goalie that isn’t available and doesn’t exist, and your hyperbole is still extreme hyperbole. A goal-scorer that makes anywhere from 7-9M is worth more than any goalie at similar AAV. Allen can be just as bad as last year and we will be fine - especially if we were to add another 25-30 goal scoring RHS - and even more so if that player is as good (and available) as Panarin.

 

[Majorityof1]

Panarin doesn’t require Schwartz at the deadline, but we can gloss over that if you’d like.

Johnson might not put up Hutton numbers, but that doesn’t change the fact that our offense was worse than our overall goaltending last year, and since we already have a much better offense, I think the team is capable of winning one more game than last year even with Allen’s worst.

Find me another Hutton and we’ll talk - otherwise that goalie is going to cost more than they are worth, and Panarin becomes the better bargain and is actually available. Even bringing back Hutton doesn’t guarantee similar success when you factor in goalie volatility and the amount of games he would be playing when replacing Jake, but I suppose if that goalie is coming as cheap as Hutton, we could in theory have both Panarin and Hutton at the TDL. Eithe way, unless Allen is worse this year than last year, we should be fine to make the playoffs.

There’s no reason to argue that we should be refusing to improve the team in other ways in order to hold cap space for a mystery goalie that isn’t available and doesn’t exist, and your hyperbole is still extreme hyperbole. A goal-scorer that makes anywhere from 7-9M is worth more than any goalie at similar AAV. Allen can be just as bad as last year and we will be fine - especially if we were to add another 25-30 goal scoring RHS - and even more so if that player is as good (and available) as Panarin.

Panarin won't last until the deadline, and if he does, chances are Columbus will be in the playoff picture as well. Its very rare contending teams trade pending UFAs for futures. If we can get Panarin for nothing that hurts us and have a good chance to re-sign him, its a no brainer. That scenario isn't realistic. Even if we can sign him for rental prices, which is unlikely, that's all he will be. He doesn't want to be here anymore than Columbus. And we'd have to move out serious salary to keep him. He's less likely to sign here than Stone who is also extremely unlikely for the same reasons. As a rental, we don't have the goalie to win now, so why are we paying even rental prices for one playoff run of offense. We took drastic steps to improve our offense already. Let's see how those pan out. We are a playoff team now. LEt's let our players with a long term future here play and keep our assets to improve areas that show up to be a need this year, not last year. There is only so much ice time to go around. We will end up pushing a 40 point player to the 4th line. You don't add an 80 point player and that adds 80 goals. Everyone else gets pushed down the line-up or off the powerplay and produces less.

Allen cannot be just as bad as last year. Pittsburgh was loaded on offense. #3 regular season and #2 playoffs. Caps were 9th in the regular season. Caps lifted the trophy not because their offense stepped up (although it did) but because their goalie did while the other goalies struggled a bit. Murray's struggles sunk the Penguins. The difference between a dominant dynasty and losing was a struggling goalie. Now you will argue that if Murray, a good goalie can falter, what does a good goalie matter. Because a good goalie can get hot over an extended stretch. Allen has never shown the consistency to get hot or even play consistently well for 20+ games outside of one half season where Brodeur was whispering in his ear the whole time. If you can convince Brodeur to be a full-time goalie whisperer for us, go for Panarin. Otherwise we are just throwing money and assets down the drain.

But keep beating that drum. You do you. You love that type of player, and its good to dream.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Alright my crazy wild, out of left field prediction:


Jordan Binnington plays over 25 games and emerges as the teams #1 goalie going into the playoffs.

 

[Robb_K]

I predict that during a lull in games, Ranksu will ask for Steen to be traded (I'm not saying that because I think he'll do that because the guy happens to be Swedish, but.......

 

[Ranksu]

I predict that during a lull in games, Ranksu will ask for Steen to be traded (I'm not saying that because I think he'll do that because the guy happens to be Swedish, but.......

Well, its quite coincidence that Steen, Gunnar (and Berglund) are 'odd man out'. After additions ( ROR, Bozak, Perron and Maroon) we aren't anymore bubble team, we're currently contenders. So Steen is valuable depth player for us and if I had change I would take Berglund back now and put him on 4th line center, ofc Sobotka would be more ideal for that position and job.

But overally people might have misunderstand my vision about why I want to trade some type of players where this team was, nowhere. Gain pick(s) and prospects for the future, but after Army fast move the idealogy isn't there anymore.

But I do understand its common humour thing to go now against me that I hate Sweds, 'cus I really do hate/love them like in generally, but its not nothing to do with Swedish players at Blues. Its just coincidence that we had so many bad/mediocre Swedish players + Blues previous direction of as a team and that's all. I hope you guys understand what I try to mean.

btw looks like you NA people don't realize how deep this Finland vs. Sweden love/hate is. I don't know is there same kind of with USA vs. Canada.

When the other country win its openly bashed to another country, no matter what kind of competition it is. Ice hockey to eurovision contest etc. Its wide and its also in generally same, same relatives and you see finns vs. sweds, but end of day we cheer and drink for together, but...

 

[Robb_K]

Well, its quite coincidence that Steen, Gunnar (and Berglund) are 'odd man out'. After additions ( ROR, Bozak, Perron and Maroon) we aren't anymore bubble team, we're currently contenders. So Steen is valuable depth player for us and if I had change I would take Berglund back now and put him on 4th line center, ofc Sobotka would be more ideal for that position and job.

But overally people might have misunderstand my vision about why I want to trade some type of players where this team was, nowhere. Gain pick(s) and prospects for the future, but after Army fast move the idealogy isn't there anymore.

But I do understand its common humour thing to go now against me that I hate Sweds, 'cus I really do hate/love them like in generally, but its not nothing to do with Swedish players at Blues. Its just coincidence that we had so many bad/mediocre Swedish players + Blues previous direction of as a team and that's all. I hope you guys understand what I try to mean.

btw looks like you NA people don't realize how deep this Finland vs. Sweden love/hate is. I don't know is there same kind of with USA vs. Canada.

When the other country win its openly bashed to another country, no matter what kind of competition it is. Ice hockey to eurovision contest etc. Its wide and its also in generally same, same relatives and you see finns vs. sweds, but end of day we cheer and drink for together, but...

Yes, USA and Canada have a friendly rivalry. I wouldn't say I'm only a North American. I've lived in The Netherlands for almost 50 years, and spent summers there most of the other 20+. My brother lives in Sweden, and has for many years, and he lived in Finland for 2 years. I studied European history, so I know the long history between Finland and Sweden. I work for Kalle Anka and for Akku Anka. So, I am aware of the differences and similarities between those 2 peoples.

We're just pulling your leg, because there is little hockey to comment on right now.

 

[BlueDream]

I do think Fabbri may have a slow start to the season, however I ALSO have a strong feeling he's going to score our very 1st goal of the season or something. He'll get one early, at home. And the arena will come close to crumbling to the ground.

 

[Brian39]

I do think Fabbri may have a slow start to the season, however I ALSO have a strong feeling he's going to score our very 1st goal of the season or something. He'll get one early, at home. And the arena will come close to crumbling to the ground.

That just reminded me of Perron roofing one over Crawford like 7 minutes into his first game back. That building went insane.

 

[RandallRitchey]

Alright my crazy wild, out of left field prediction:


Jordan Binnington plays over 25 games and emerges as the teams #1 goalie going into the playoffs.

That would make things interesting.

Allen goes down with injury, Husso struggles, Binnington called up and plays at a Hutton level. About the only way I see that occurring.

 

[HighNote]

That just reminded me of Perron roofing one over Crawford like 7 minutes into his first game back. That building went insane.

I was at this game. Can confirm it was loud.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Allen gets hurt, Johnson struggles while Husso thrives.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Allen gets hurt, Johnson struggles while Husso thrives.

That’s not a bold prediction to some

 

[Ranksu]

Allen gets hurt, Johnson struggles while Husso thrives.

That is realistic prediction.

That’s not a bold prediction to some

 

[Evocable Manager]

Allen doesn't even need to get hurt for Husso to get a chance. He just needs to play like he normally does and eventually Husso will get an opportunity.

 

[Ranksu]

Allen doesn't even need to get hurt for Husso to get a chance. He just needs to play like he normally does and eventually Husso will get an opportunity.

I really don't know for sure how it could happend in reality. Can we bring up Husso if Allen isn't injured, but is poor at net and Johnson is also healthy. Can we hold up at NHL 3 healthy goaltenders?

 

[Majorityof1]

I really don't know for sure how it could happend in reality. Can we bring up Husso if Allen isn't injured, but is poor at net and Johnson is also healthy. Can we hold up at NHL 3 healthy goaltenders?

Yes. You can have a maximum of 23 healthy players on the NHL roster. That is usually 21 skaters and 2 goalies. However, if you want to carry 3rd goalie, you can send a skater down. However, as none of our players are waiver eligible, and I think many will be snatched up, that could prove difficult as well.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Yes. You can have a maximum of 23 healthy players on the NHL roster. That is usually 21 skaters and 2 goalies. However, if you want to carry 3rd goalie, you can send a skater down. However, as none of our players are waiver eligible, and I think many will be snatched up, that could prove difficult as well.

If our goaltending is horrendous (which I am very fearful of) then wouldn't it be smart just to waive Johnson and call up Husso?

If he's having an awful season the chances of him being claimed aren't very good. Even if he does get claimed it's not like Husso wasn't a lock on the team next season anyway.

 

[Majorityof1]

If our goaltending is horrendous (which I am very fearful of) then wouldn't it be smart just to waive Johnson and call up Husso?

If he's having an awful season the chances of him being claimed aren't very good. Even if he does get claimed it's not like Husso wasn't a lock on the team next season anyway.

The question specifically asked if we could carry 3 goalies if it was Allen who was hypothetically playing poorly. We could waive either Johnson or Allen. If Allen if the one playing poorly though, we might not want to waive Johnson. We could waive Allen I guess. If he is awful enough for us to consider it, his stock will be tanked and we might be better off if someone did claim him. We can also send Allen down for a conditioning stint.

 

[JoshFromMO]

Didn't the team have Allen, Elliot, and Brodeur up at the same time for a little while?