Value of: Make a Trade with Tampa Bay

[ShaneinTpa]

Wha?

Talking about Callahan vs Erne. Their stats were very close from last season but towards the final 30-40 games Callahan was outplaying him only to be healthy scratched. Erne just has not been as people made him out to be, and a 34 yo vet was outplaying him down the stretch.

Apologies, Your thread was Callahan not Ruley Nash. At the same time Leonardo I don’t think Adam Erne Is anywhere close to a bust. This kid missed most of his last year of juniors and a good portion of his first year as a pro with injuries. He’s also been hurt since he has been up with the big club. The injuries seem to have subsided. Depending upon what TB does, I feel pretty confident this kid, be it here or anywhere else will have a long term better upside than Yanni Goirde when you consider Gourde is older and is committed long-term to over $5 million a year

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Cernak to FLA

What is his value though?
I know he's not available unless for an overpayment

 

[ShaneinTpa]

How do you come up with these values? A 1st to dump Callahan with a 2nd back then becomes two late picks and we get back a player who outproduced him with 50% retention. Seems like it should be Callahan + 1st for Namestnikov (50%) + 4th + 5th.

Tell me the last time a team traded a 1st to dump salary? We would be better off trading back from 27 to get additional assets then use one of those to move him. A 1st is too high.

If you trade back from where the Lightning are you are pretty much in the second round anyway. That being the case

How do you come up with these values? A 1st to dump Callahan with a 2nd back then becomes two late picks and we get back a player who outproduced him with 50% retention. Seems like it should be Callahan + 1st for Namestnikov (50%) + 4th + 5th.

Tell me the last time a team traded a 1st to dump salary? We would be better off trading back from 27 to get additional assets then use one of those to move him. A 1st is too high.

If you’re trading back from 27th you’re pretty much trading into the second round anyway. Since the Rangers pick high in every round the return for Callahan would be negligibly different and have to include another TB asset As the Rangers would be doing TB the favor of not taking back contract and giving them a second rounder. So, in essence trading the first round pick to move him would not be too much. In fact I’m not so sure the Rangers would even do that deal. If the Lightning did trade back to acquire assets later used to package with players they need to move to make cap space, it would have to be at minimum for a high second and a high third or two seconds. Otherwise that idea doesn’t work for them. Remember guys this is not the deepest draft. No to Namestnikov in any return.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The bolts currently have ~8.6M in cap space to really only re-sign Point and some field fillers. Tampa trading Callahan is kinda a last resort cap space fix. They're more likely to shop JT Miller (on his M-NTC) who holds a lot more value as a top 6 center/winger for extra space and/or a core RD of similar or less price. If they are still short on cap spare they will look to shop 1 of TyJo, Killorn, or Gourde if one of them waives their NTC.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If you trade back from where the Lightning are you are pretty much in the second round anyway. That being the case

If you’re trading back from 27th you’re pretty much trading into the second round anyway. Since the Rangers pick high in every round the return for Callahan would be negligibly different and have to include another TB asset As the Rangers would be doing TB the favor of not taking back contract and giving them a second rounder. So, in essence trading the first round pick to move him would not be too much. In fact I’m not so sure the Rangers would even do that deal. If the Lightning did trade back to acquire assets later used to package with players they need to move to make cap space, it would have to be at minimum for a high second and a high third or two seconds. Otherwise that idea doesn’t work for them. Remember guys this is not the deepest draft. No to Namestnikov in any return.

Trading back from 27 could possibly get us 35 and 66. I would try to use the 66 and 89 to move Callahan but if it costs the 36 that's better than the 27. Because if we use the 27 we don't pick till 89. If we trade back we can pick before then and our pool could use some help. We need some goalies in the pipeline and the 3rd round is looking like it should have 3 or 4 guys with some potential in it. They say the draft isn't deep every year, you can find players in the later rounds if your scouting is good which ours has been.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

Cernak to FLA

What is his value though?
I know he's not available unless for an overpayment

The lightning aren’t trading defensemen to anyone unless they somehow were to sign Erik Karlsson. But, you are welcome to sign one of their three UFA defensemen

 

[ShaneinTpa]

Trading back from 27 could possibly get us 35 and 66. I would try to use the 66 and 89 to move Callahan but if it costs the 36 that's better than the 27. Because if we use the 27 we don't pick till 89. If we trade back we can pick before then and our pool could use some help. We need some goalies in the pipeline and the 3rd round is looking like it should have 3 or 4 guys with some potential in it. They say the draft isn't deep every year, you can find players in the later rounds if your scouting is good which ours has been.

To my point, using your scenario 66 and 89 is not going to entice anybody to take Callahan. And, to be clear I am only saying you would give the Rangers your first to take him if they gave TB their second. Their second comes along way before pick 89. Otherwise I keep the first, and buy Callahan out unless or until they can either move Miller or Gourde before their NTC kicks in or get someone like Johnson to waive his. In truth, buying out Callahan is probably Tampa Bay‘s best option before things get messy July 1. The Cap space doing that that would eat up is less than the majority of deals they would have to make to trade him because most of the other GM’s are going to want the lightning to take back some contract.

 

[Chainshot]

One would assume people are going to ask about Cirelli and Cernak despite them being productive, low cap hit players who are exactly the sort the Lightning should keep.

The Ranger deal proposed for Callahan is better than anything I could see Buffalo offering. What would the ask be for JT Miller?

 

[herzausstein]

Palat + Callahan + foote for pk subban

Tampa dumps Callahan and palat but gets a #1 rhd

Nashville buys out Callahan and hopes palat rebounds in a new location. Foote slides in 3rd pairing rhd behind Ellis and fabbro

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Callahan and Palat to New Jersey for Nashville's second

done

 

[ShaneinTpa]

done

palat won’t do that

 

[ShaneinTpa]

One would assume people are going to ask about Cirelli and Cernak despite them being productive, low cap hit players who are exactly the sort the Lightning should keep.

The Ranger deal proposed for Callahan is better than anything I could see Buffalo offering. What would the ask be for JT Miller?

If you’re talking about proposing the Rangers give TB their high second for Callahan and TB’s first, there’s not enough difference between the two draft picks for the Rangers to do it. If you’re talking about the other one that involves Namestnikov coming back to Tampa Bay, it would make more sense for the lightning to buy out Callahan and resign Adam Erne. If you’re talking about something different, enlighten me.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

Cernak to FLA

What is his value though?
I know he's not available unless for an overpayment

His value is way too high given his present cap hit. Tampa Bay is short on defence as it is and replacing him would mean taking back more salary in the deal which they can’t do

 

[Chainshot]

If you’re talking about proposing the Rangers give TB their high second for Callahan and TB’s first, there’s not enough difference between the two draft picks for the Rangers to do it. If you’re talking about the other one that involves Namestnikov coming back to Tampa Bay, it would make more sense for the lightning to buy out Callahan and resign Adam Erne. If you’re talking about something different, enlighten me.

I thought it was referencing the Lightning originated 2nd rounder in 2019 (58 OA) for 27OA. For eating Callahan's deal, that seemed like solid value to the Rangers from here.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

I thought it was referencing the Lightning originated 2nd rounder in 2019 (58 OA) for 27OA. For eating Callahan's deal, that seemed like solid value to the Rangers from here.

I didn’t see where it said that. If that’s the case that could be reasonable. I thought it referenced the New York rangers own second round pick which is 37th

 

[Chainshot]

I didn’t see where it said that. If that’s the case that could be reasonable. I thought it referenced the New York rangers own second round pick which is 37th

It doesn't say that, it was my assumption that it would be the lower pick. My mistake.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

It doesn't say that, it was my assumption that it would be the lower pick. My mistake.

It may not be a mistake. It just wasn’t quantified

 

[ShaneinTpa]

Palat + Callahan + foote for pk subban

Tampa dumps Callahan and palat but gets a #1 rhd

Nashville buys out Callahan and hopes palat rebounds in a new location. Foote slides in 3rd pairing rhd behind Ellis and fabbro

It is creative. But, Callahan can be bought out and assuming Palat would waive his NTC TB would be better off moving him in a separate deal and going after Karlsson. I do believe it would also be their preference under such circumstances. Even if Palat does wave and the lightning feels a need to keep him they could trade Miller and or Gourde in separate deals that would facilitate the ability to sign EK 65 and Brayden Point. From Nashville’s vantage point I only see them moving PK to clear up cap space for a goal scorer. To that end taking on Callahan’s cap hit for even one year is counter productive. Also, Palat would give them a lot of things but I don’t think scoring is one of them or not likely enough to turn PK loose. Also it remains to be seen if Cal Foote is NHL ready for either team. Where he is concerned I also believe Tampa Bay will ultimately need him more than Nashville with any or all of Coburn, Stralman and Girardi gone as UFA’s

 

[Roof Daddy]

To EDM: Pacquette

To TB: NYI 3rd (85th OA)

I know they’d rather keep him, but given the cap crunch they’re about to enter and their strong organizational depth, they’ll need to rely on a cheaper replacement.

Or we just offer sheet him 3 years @ 2.1 per. I think he’s one of the best 4C’s in the game.

 

[herzausstein]

It is creative. But, Callahan can be bought out and assuming Palat would waive his NTC TB would be better off moving him in a separate deal and going after Karlsson. I do believe it would also be their preference under such circumstances. Even if Palat does wave and the lightning feels a need to keep him they could trade Miller and or Gourde in separate deals that would facilitate the ability to sign EK 65 and Brayden Point. From Nashville’s vantage point I only see them moving PK to clear up cap space for a goal scorer. To that end taking on Callahan’s cap hit for even one year is counter productive. Also, Palat would give them a lot of things but I don’t think scoring is one of them or not likely enough to turn PK loose. Also it remains to be seen if Cal Foote is NHL ready for either team. Where he is concerned I also believe Tampa Bay will ultimately need him more than Nashville with any or all of Coburn, Stralman and Girardi gone as UFA’s

If the trade happened, it would open up alot of possibilities for Nashville. Callahan's buyout would put them back to the caphit they had prior to the trade. Having Palat would allow them to trade Smith or Granlund which would open another 4.25-5.75M which would then open up enough room for Duchene which would then make one of Turris or Bonino unnecessary. Move Bonino and let sissons replace him on the 4th line. Foote wouldn't be needed to play this season. He would just be someone to come up as Ellis ages.

From Tampa's spot, if they miss out on EK then Subban would be a pretty good Silver Medal. It keeps them from having the dead capspace of Callahan's buyout. With Subban, Hedman, McDonagh, Rutta, and Sergachev a plug will be able to fill in as the 6th dman. Tampa may need the cheap talent more though. But if that's the case i don't know why they were going after EK to begin with since that doesn't help their situation anyways.

 

[HoseEmDown]

To my point, using your scenario 66 and 89 is not going to entice anybody to take Callahan. And, to be clear I am only saying you would give the Rangers your first to take him if they gave TB their second. Their second comes along way before pick 89. Otherwise I keep the first, and buy Callahan out unless or until they can either move Miller or Gourde before their NTC kicks in or get someone like Johnson to waive his. In truth, buying out Callahan is probably Tampa Bay‘s best option before things get messy July 1. The Cap space doing that that would eat up is less than the majority of deals they would have to make to trade him because most of the other GM’s are going to want the lightning to take back some contract.

The 66 + 89 could get you into the the 50's. The Rangers traded their early 2nd round pick so they don't have the 37 anymore they just have our 58. So in the trade we get 58 when a 66 + 89 should get that or higher. We would still have the 36 in my scenario.

Buying out Callahan is a bad option. We can retain 2mil on him and possibly get a return or at least have to pay a lot less to dump him. We could also take back a small comtrconor two if needed to make a deal feasible. I also see Miller and Gourde being shopped amywaa as we have a log jam in the top 9 as is.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

If the trade happened, it would open up alot of possibilities for Nashville. Callahan's buyout would put them back to the caphit they had prior to the trade. Having Palat would allow them to trade Smith or Granlund which would open another 4.25-5.75M which would then open up enough room for Duchene which would then make one of Turris or Bonino unnecessary. Move Bonino and let sissons replace him on the 4th line. Foote wouldn't be needed to play this season. He would just be someone to come up as Ellis ages.

From Tampa's spot, if they miss out on EK then Subban would be a pretty good Silver Medal. It keeps them from having the dead capspace of Callahan's buyout. With Subban, Hedman, McDonagh, Rutta, and Sergachev a plug will be able to fill in as the 6th dman. Tampa may need the cheap talent more though. But if that's the case i don't know why they were going after EK to begin with since that doesn't help their situation anyways.

Too many moving parts from a Nashville perspective to likely make that a reality. The same number of moving parts from a Lightning perspective will likely keep Subban or Karlsson from donning a Lightning uniform

 

[GellMann]

To Buffalo: Cirelli, Callahan
To Tampa: Mittelstadt, Nylander, McCabe, 30th overall

 

[me2]

How do you come up with these values? A 1st to dump Callahan with a 2nd back then becomes two late picks and we get back a player who outproduced him with 50% retention.

To Rangers: Callahan + 1st round pick. To Tampa: 2nd round pick.


That seems like a pretty good deal to. Tampa is drafting #27 and the Rangers' 2nd could be for either #49 this year or a 32-40 range pick next year. Plus you get whatever asset you spend that extra cap on.

 

[BUX7PHX]

To Arizona:
Callahan (30% retained)
Gourde
#27
2020 2nd round pick

To Tampa:
#14
Fischer
Connauton

Not certain about the 1sts getting involved, may wind up being #45, Fischer, and Connauton for Gourde and Callahan with same retainment.